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Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 4:45:25 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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Status: offline 		Hi Guys,

I confess to not searching around but I still love Steel Panthers and wondered if there was any latest news on the potential release of Steel Tigers?

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 4:55:02 PM   
ncc1701e


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Status: offline 		Alas, not much news as per today.

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 5:41:28 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		They released WitE2 the other day.

They can't claim to be working on that first any more :)

But give them a couple of months to enjoy the launch.


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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 6:38:04 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
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Status: offline 		Aye. I'm enjoying WITE2 but I'm only human hence the question

Thanks

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 6:58:15 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		I have WitE as well as WitW and the dlc.

But I have heard some very damning criticism of the design. Sometimes all that glitters isn't gold.

There's more than one way to do grand operational WW2 Europe out there.

I'm still needing to take Warplan out for a decent walk as well.

And I have Schwerpunct's design to consider as well. Made totally and shamelessly to emulate the board gaming scene.

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 7:58:17 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Status: offline 		I personally love WITE2 but to each their own

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 8:12:26 PM   
MrsWargamer


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Status: offline 		List the biggest 'improvements' since first version?

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 9:17:04 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
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Status: offline 		I don't work for Matrix/2by3 and I'm not here and paid to advocate or defend anyone. Read this if interested: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4985720

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 9:32:18 PM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I don't work for Matrix/2by3 and I'm not here and paid to advocate or defend anyone. Read this if interested: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4985720


Gee, talk about enthusiasm, you might want to tone it down there Steve, you're overwhelming me :)

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 9:38:30 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
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Status: offline 		Lucky I work in sales eh?

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/30/2021 11:41:28 PM   
dox44

 

Posts: 668
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline 		where's Rico when you need him?

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Post #: 11
RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 1:42:18 AM   
TerribleIvan

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		definitely looking forward to Steel Panthers' (spiritual) successor

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 2:04:17 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		I'm just so worried they will try so hard, and it will flop so big.

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 9:55:42 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I'm just so worried they will try so hard, and it will flop so big.

I would be happy with a modern version of the classic Panthers in the Shadows. The detail in that line of games was amazing even today. Same with the WEGO/C3 structure. I would ask for modern graphics and UI, of course, but not 3D if 3D means "more time devoted to the models, less to the contents" - like it happened with the second generation of Combat Mission.

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 12:35:54 PM   
rico21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dox44

where's Rico when you need him?


Apparently they are in the preliminaries...





Attachment (1)

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 4:41:32 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

Apparently they are in the preliminaries...




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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 4:56:57 PM   
Zovs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

List the biggest 'improvements' since first version?


To me the biggest are the Air War.

The newer (borrowed from WitW) air war is very easy to use and after the first turn (as Axis) you can put it on "auto pilot" if you will with the auto feature.

The reports dialogs are all much improved.

The added feature of the Depots for logistics.

Pockets work much better.

You can transfer units without any AP costs.

The new CCP is much better and if used with the FBD's and a higher HQ seems much more realistic.

The new Witepedia is fantastic for historical research and information.

The new Victory points screen is much better.

The new theater boxes is a great feature.

The new Logistics Phase Report.

The Commander's Report has been revised and improved.

The Weather Report is pretty neat.

The new losses screens are much improved.

The OOB screen has been greatly improved.

The new roads toggle is awesome and that tied with both the Depots and logistic management helps with understanding the supply network and in the use of your armored forces (i.e. don't go trekking in the wooded marshes up north).

All around I think that WitE2 is much improved, easier to play and a better bang for your buck then WitE.



< Message edited by Zovs -- 3/31/2021 4:57:51 PM >

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 5:12:34 PM   
rico21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e


quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

Apparently they are in the preliminaries...




You're right!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjohnswargames.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2F27%2F857%2F&psig=AOvVaw1O0qyAJG4oWt7FVmpsR2gw&ust=1617296973160000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAkQjhxqFwoTCIiQxOuC2-8CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 5:27:54 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		"Pockets work much better."

You men, always with the better pockets :)

So it looks like most of the new is in interface design?

Hmm, 100 bucks for a new dress. Not sure. And if you can't sell a woman on a new dress, yer going to need to try harder guys.

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 19
RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 5:42:25 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Not at all. Whole new air war engine. New logistics engine. The way theatre boxes changes how that is handled. CPP addition affects how the land war is played out etc etc

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 7:02:04 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		I always find it hard to take the word of someone who is a huge fan of something. They tend to go overboard with how great it is. For instance I've seen lots of movies with four out of five stars but when I watch it I'm wondering if they saw the same movie I was watching. Cult classics can fall into that trap. When you have to shell out $72 U.S. it's even harder to want to go for it.

Wonder why there's never a demo for a game that costs that much.

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 7:25:57 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Fair enough. I'll just continue to enjoy the game.

Anyhow...this original post was to ask on Steel Tigers. Seems no updates or news in that case

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RE: Steel Tigers - 3/31/2021 7:44:32 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

I always find it hard to take the word of someone who is a huge fan of something. They tend to go overboard with how great it is. For instance I've seen lots of movies with four out of five stars but when I watch it I'm wondering if they saw the same movie I was watching.

I just had this experience with Zack Snyder's Justice League (I talked about it in the movie thread). The level of stupidity in the script is off scale and yet the internet just exploded in admiration. Even if I recognise that Zack Snyder is a technical master (and he is) there are still stretches of the movie where nothing happens - and thus Snyder can't show his mastery of the cinematic language.

The interesting part is how all the enthusiastic reviews are based on "This movie is incredibly better than the Wheldon version!" (which I haven't seen). Not a single review tackles some very fundamental questions of the "Did I just see this?! These things happened FOR REAL?? kind.

I can't say more without spoiling the movie. However, IMHO it is a prime example of "It is better that the predecessor so it is good!" fallacy. One thing doesn't automatically lead to the other.

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 3/31/2021 7:45:37 PM >

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RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 12:19:30 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

"Pockets work much better."

You men, always with the better pockets :)

So it looks like most of the new is in interface design?

Hmm, 100 bucks for a new dress. Not sure. And if you can't sell a woman on a new dress, yer going to need to try harder guys.


You can down load the manual and get a more in-depth viewpoint.

< Message edited by Zovs -- 4/1/2021 12:42:00 AM >

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RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 12:41:31 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
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Status: offline 		List of differences between WitE 1 and 2:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4985720

Full manual:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4986839

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RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 12:53:46 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

I always find it hard to take the word of someone who is a huge fan of something. They tend to go overboard with how great it is. For instance I've seen lots of movies with four out of five stars but when I watch it I'm wondering if they saw the same movie I was watching. Cult classics can fall into that trap. When you have to shell out $72 U.S. it's even harder to want to go for it.

Wonder why there's never a demo for a game that costs that much.


One problem may be the people who get paid to review such things. They may have actually never have seen the movie.

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RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 12:58:14 AM   
MrsWargamer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

List of differences between WitE 1 and 2:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4985720

Full manual:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4986839


At first glance, I'm kinda wondering, are those two pages of content worth 100 bucks?

I give as a comparative example. The Squad Leader manual and the 3 modules, vs the ASL rule book. Massive sum of change.

Another example. Third Reich vs A3R. A considerable evolution of the game design. A radical new map, revamped forcepool, lots of design revision.

So for me, the question is "are those 2 pages enough". It looks like WitE2 is a good first timer purchase. But a person owning the original, might need to be quite the fanatic to find that 100 bucks. If they play any other wargames.

ASL players don't mind the costs. They don't tend to play anything else :)

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
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Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 27
RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 8:15:45 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		In my opinion yes it’s worth the cost. I am a retired ASLer and am used (duped) into always buying the next ASL item even if I have version 2 & 1. Lol

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Post #: 28
RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 1:05:54 PM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		So far, I've found very little that can compete with the unplanned chaos of Up Front.

I LIKE the command simulation of Command Ops. I think Steel Panthers becomes more credible with command and control turned on.

I like any wargame that falls apart the moment your HQs are ignored.

I think ASL might have performed better if rather than squad leaders being able to directly influence dice rolls, their units failed to function if those leaders were not present or close enough.

There are of course limitations in games. No smell of death, no lack of sleep, no stress from days of constant fear. No living in a hole in the ground in whatever weather was happening.

It's quite the shock when the regular army isn't like the militia, just something to do on a weekend :) I'm very much impressed by my country's military. Over used, over extended, under supported and poorly equipped in the field. And yet they just keep on trucking. It isn't the same army of the 70s any more.

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 29
RE: Steel Tigers - 4/1/2021 2:00:17 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

There are of course limitations in games. No smell of death, no lack of sleep, no stress from days of constant fear. No living in a hole in the ground in whatever weather was happening.


From what I read in certain forums, some gamers actually live just like that.

_____________________________

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"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

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Post #: 30
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