Barbarossa PBEM strategy

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Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/27/2021 5:10:22 PM

ThunderLizard11

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What are the keys to a strong Barbarossa push?

1) Timing - April at lower prep level or summer with more prep?

2) Dealing with Yugo and Greece?

3) Where to attack? All along line or concentrated?

4) Impact of HQ levels and supply on combat effectiveness?

5) Tech versus units?

Post #: 1

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/27/2021 7:57:53 PM

calcwerc

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Good topic. Few factors to consider as well:

6) managing Russian and American war readiness prior and during Barbarossa

7) Letting Japan engage in Siberia or not (when and with which strength)

8) How to attack convoy lines to Murmansk most efficiently (given you havent Sea-lioned it already)

(in reply to ThunderLizard11)

Post #: 2

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/27/2021 8:12:25 PM

calcwerc

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My guesses:
1) Playing it well is more important than playing it early. If early, I have seen February-March 41 to avoid losses from winter event (Fafnir). While you gotta admire the creativity, I hope it will get patched out as I consider it a rather gamey approach which shouldnt be encouraged.
2) Yugo diplomatically or with war after coup event, Greece might be better to leave alone most of the time.
3) I would say 1-2 "Schwerpunkte", dependent on which regions you guess will be less defended (forts might give some hint)
4) No expert, but I guess you need at least 2 for North and Center and 2-3 for South to make efficient offensives. So you might start Barbarossa with 4-5 German HQs, but will probably want more for 1942.
5) Infantry tech/Tank tech must be 2. Intelligence might be worth it to have good progress for tank tech in 42-43. All other techs are less important for this particular front, but you mostly want to upgrade your bombers and artillery pieces as well. AT is great if you can afford it.
6) The best players I played are excellent on keeping these low, so I guess thats where most "normal" players can improve most strategically. I wish there were some more handy information on this stuff available for quick reference.
7) Most players do the move after US war entry, and two army groups with support should normally suffice to take Vladivostok and Irkutsk. (it is all too easy in my opinion, wish there was some more obstacles for axis to choose this option)
8) I am no good at naval game, but this one seems pretty important.

(in reply to calcwerc)

Post #: 3

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/28/2021 7:55:13 PM

ThunderLizard11

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calcwerc

My guesses:
1) Playing it well is more important than playing it early. If early, I have seen February-March 41 to avoid losses from winter event (Fafnir). While you gotta admire the creativity, I hope it will get patched out as I consider it a rather gamey approach which shouldnt be encouraged.
2) Yugo diplomatically or with war after coup event, Greece might be better to leave alone most of the time.
3) I would say 1-2 "Schwerpunkte", dependent on which regions you guess will be less defended (forts might give some hint)
4) No expert, but I guess you need at least 2 for North and Center and 2-3 for South to make efficient offensives. So you might start Barbarossa with 4-5 German HQs, but will probably want more for 1942.
5) Infantry tech/Tank tech must be 2. Intelligence might be worth it to have good progress for tank tech in 42-43. All other techs are less important for this particular front, but you mostly want to upgrade your bombers and artillery pieces as well. AT is great if you can afford it.
6) The best players I played are excellent on keeping these low, so I guess thats where most "normal" players can improve most strategically. I wish there were some more handy information on this stuff available for quick reference.
7) Most players do the move after US war entry, and two army groups with support should normally suffice to take Vladivostok and Irkutsk. (it is all too easy in my opinion, wish there was some more obstacles for axis to choose this option)
8) I am no good at naval game, but this one seems pretty important.

1) So historical of June is ideal?
2) Never do Yugo diplo anymore and coup is random so maybe attack by April and leave Greece be?
3) This may be biggest strategy question - what are best players doing? Push for Moscow or Ukraine?
4) Do you need to micro HQs for air unit attachment?
5) Which techs to postpone until after Barbarossa? Naval? Invest less in tech and more in units?
6) I see players delay Dutch DOW - also have been refusing Lithonia. Others?
7) I usually take Vladivostok a few turns after US entry - find pushing West towards Irkutsk is easily blocked
8) Move planes for cover?

(in reply to calcwerc)

Post #: 4

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/29/2021 8:26:47 AM

calcwerc

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I am sure others can give much more competent answers. Generally, what I observe playing good players is that they adapt their strategy. So they observe your play and come up with another strategy which will outplay you... frustrating, but fun.
1) I think many players in most games will see a spring attack as ideal, as you will rather be in the position to knock out one of the primary targets early 1942 or even 1941.
2) Not sure, but isnt coup mostly in march?
3) Easiest probably Ukraine and Caucausus, but from what I observe good tactical players mostly push for Moscow as well. But surprise is a strong weapon, like going through Turkey or Finland...
4) Yes
5) Always push tanks, and apart from that I would invest less as Germany. Id mostly keep industrial tech and AA. And then fighters/subs/naval, but probably not all of them in tight games.
6) You can delay Dutch, even Denmark/Norway/Luxembourg/Belgium. If you attack Dutch, Belgium will join without costing you allied war readiness I think?
7) Perhaps easily blocked, but if you go there with HQ, 2 armies and artillery / air support, Russia might even need a HQ to block it, and they dont wanna spend any ressources at all in a two front war...
8) yeah, but you only have one naval bomber (which might be as useful on other fronts) and normally need your bombers for the eastern front. And operating them is very expensive...

(in reply to ThunderLizard11)

Post #: 5

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/30/2021 10:27:41 PM

ThunderLizard11

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How about some more ideas from other strong players? @fafnir, @hamburger?

(in reply to calcwerc)

Post #: 6

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/31/2021 12:27:50 AM

HamburgerMeat

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1) The best time to attack is in February/early March of 41 to trigger the Soviet winter script, but this is so cheesy I can't condone it except versus the very top players. Definitely wait until infantry weapons level 2. It is debatable whether you should wait for tanks level 2, but I would unless you are still not close to level 2 (which it should be). You don't have to wait for ground attack level 2 since you could wait for a rainy turn to upgrade them then. Still, 95% of the time I'd wait for level 2 all techs.

2) use some leftover armies/corps to clean up Yugo when they join the Allies OR do it a turn or so before Barbarossa. I know some people like to declare war on Yugo right after dealing with France, but I don't think it is worth the USSR mobilization penalty

I don't do Greece until the USA joins, but there's merit in taking it.

3) Usually south or center. It can be worth going north if you can cut off lend-lease. I can't tell you whether the attacks should be all along the line or concentrated as it depends on a lot of factors, including whether you'll be able to cut off supplies, your own supply level, whether you're in range of a city/town/settlement, etc. But I will say this: you should typically try to attack with as many units as you can while you have the tech advantage.

4) HQ levels are important, as is supply. I don't know the formula, but everything counts. Six supply for full movement, 5 supply to ensure that a destroyed unit can be rebuilt, and >4 to be able to force march. I don't see enough intermediate axis players force marching units into combat range.

5) If you're just going for a strong Barbarossa push, the only techs you need to invest in are:

Infantry weapons
Advanced Tanks
Ground attack
Artillery
C&C
S&I
Industrial Tech

long-range aircraft is very nice, and I'd probably invest in it. But if you are really hurting for MPPs, you can delay it.
advanced aircraft is also very nice to have, but not too important in taking out the USSR

Otherwise, make sure that you finish building all the Tac bombers & tanks you can before you get the Afrika Corp DE.

Unit building order:
Tac bomber > tanks >= medium bomber > mechanized infantry > rocket artillery > heavy artillery

6) Stay historical (except for Greece). Sealion usually isn't worth it, so wouldn't recommend 90% of the time unless you think you can take the isles in time for Barbarossa.

7) wait until the USA joins the war. probably worth disrupting the USA mpps

8) against a good allied player, pretty tough to do much. Still, subs disrupting UK to USSR convoys is way more important than disrupting convoys to the UK. Worth sacrificing them unless you're on the cusp of a national morale multiplier (95% and 110% if I recall correctly)

(in reply to ThunderLizard11)

Post #: 7

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/31/2021 1:15:32 AM

Elessar2

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Logistics should be a priority as well.

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Post #: 8

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/31/2021 12:48:56 PM

DrZom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HamburgerMeat

Otherwise, make sure that you finish building all the Tac bombers & tanks you can before you get the Afrika Corp DE.

Before upgrading existing units and reinforcing losses from France? OK, maybe for ground units because you have time, but what about air? You don't engage British air units?

(in reply to HamburgerMeat)

Post #: 9

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/31/2021 1:07:18 PM

HamburgerMeat

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Depends om if the UK is overexposed, when France fell, and whatnot. Usually i wont bother

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Post #: 10

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 3/31/2021 4:34:14 PM

HamburgerMeat

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I should also note that artillery and aircraft (even fighters) can do alot of damage to units in marsh hexes due to the -1 penalty, so you might want to bring your fighters up north if they're not being used elsewhere.

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Post #: 11

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 4/2/2021 11:00:56 AM

calcwerc

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quote:

4) HQ levels are important, as is supply. I don't know the formula, but everything counts. Six supply for full movement, 5 supply to ensure that a destroyed unit can be rebuilt, and >4 to be able to force march. I don't see enough intermediate axis players force marching units into combat range.

Thanks to HamburgerMeat for sharing of his knowledge.
About using forced march in Barbarossa: Are you suggesting that infantry should use this to keep up with panzers, despite the moral loss? Wont it cost to much combat efficiency?

(in reply to HamburgerMeat)

Post #: 12

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 4/2/2021 1:25:35 PM

HamburgerMeat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calcwerc

Thanks to HamburgerMeat for sharing of his knowledge.
About using forced march in Barbarossa: Are you suggesting that infantry should use this to keep up with panzers, despite the moral loss? Wont it cost to much combat efficiency?

Yes that is correct. I find that in 41 that the loss in combat efficiency is not as great as one would think. At the very least it is better than lagging behind and not being useful

(in reply to calcwerc)

Post #: 13

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 4/2/2021 9:43:24 PM

ThunderLizard11

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Thanks Calcwerc and HM for the suggestions.

A couple questions:
* Do you build may additional HQs prior to launching Barbarossa or spend MPP on upgrading generals?
* For tech - what level for logistics makes sense as this helps with supply as well?
* Any mobility upgrades?
* How do you delay Denmark and Norway? Not take events and DoW later?
* Is it heading toward Perm or turning south toward Caucasus?

(in reply to HamburgerMeat)

Post #: 14

RE: Barbarossa PBEM strategy - 4/2/2021 11:32:44 PM

HamburgerMeat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Thanks Calcwerc and HM for the suggestions.

A couple questions:
* Do you build may additional HQs prior to launching Barbarossa or spend MPP on upgrading generals?
* For tech - what level for logistics makes sense as this helps with supply as well?
* Any mobility upgrades?
* How do you delay Denmark and Norway? Not take events and DoW later?
* Is it heading toward Perm or turning south toward Caucasus?

1. Convert one of your HQs to Manstein. This should be done in France. Otherwise, you shouldn't need another German HQ until maybe ~1942. As for upgrades, maybe mobility on one more German HQ. Keep Rommel and another HQ as your advancing HQs, and the non-mobility ones as HQs you usually put in cities/towns/settlements.

2. I don't do logistics, but I think with the new supply rules I could see an argument for getting to at least level 3? It is quite powerful at 5 I imagine, but the game has already been decided by then usually

3. Mobility on experienced tanks and maybe a German HQ or two.

4. I always take Norway via event. Denmark depends on a lot of factors, but I never pick the event.

5. Depends on concentration of USSR forces. If there's too much on the road to Moscow, then I usually try to pivot to Caucasus and vice versa.

(in reply to ThunderLizard11)

Post #: 15