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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union

 
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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:25:10 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 Air Phase:

I change the Recon directives to better locations and move the Naval Patrol to cover Sevastopol and Yevpatoriya. Mostly trying to slow down the supplies to the Crimea as much as possible.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:25:36 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 Freight:

A major shift to supply the air command but the ground units still received more than needed. Part of the shift to the air command was the massive realignment of the AOGs last turn as you could see in the Supply Net screenshots.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:26:18 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 AGN:

18th Army continues to advance on Leningrad while taking control of the northern flank of the AG. 16th Army finishes off the pocket and is the eastern flank of the AG. 4th PG has pulled back from the front in order to gain some CPP and decide whether to continue the advance on Leningrad or help in other pursuits. The temptation is to keep driving but it may not be the wisest decision. If this was the situation against a human player I would continue pushing but the AI can bring in reinforcements and fresh troops automatically and is much harder to push against in this situation.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:26:50 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 AGC:

9th Army is following the retreating Soviets into the Valdai Hills. The Soviets are afraid of being pocketed. 4th Army is driving eastwards and keeping pressure on the Soviet defenses forcing them to continue defending in this area. 2nd Army is also driving east and keeping the pressure on the Soviet defenders. 3rd PG drives north to threaten Rzhev. It is also looking as though Kalinin may be a feasible target and cut the double rail from Moscow to Leningrad (as well as another VP city along with Rzhev). This may help make the decision about a push on Leningrad. 2nd PG is supporting the 3rd PG but also continuing the pressure on the Soviet defenders towards Moscow.






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Post #: 124
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:27:16 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 AGS:

The Soviets did two attacks on Rumanian Cavalry Brigades last turn but that has been the scope of their counterattacks. 6th Army has rested and is driving to the northeast in conjunction with the AGC's 2nd Army. 17th Army is driving east and blew a hole in the Soviet defensive line for the 1st PG. 11th Army is driving towads the Dnepr River bend while forming the southern flank of the AG. The Rumanians are driving towards the Crimea. The 1st PG sends a corps to help the Rumanians along with a reserve German infantry corps. The 1st PG also forms a pocket with the 2nd and 6th Armies and exploits the hole formed by the 17th Army.






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Post #: 125
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:27:39 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 Soviet Garrison:

The Hungarian Cavalry Brigade made it into the garrison this turn and brought the garrison up to 98%. Next turn the Hungarian Security Brigade will be there and that should bring it up past 100%. This turn I sent the Croatian Reinforcement Brigade there too. This should give a nice overage and reduce the Soviet Partisans with about three turns to go before the bad weather starts to hit.






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Post #: 126
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 12:28:18 AM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T11 Files:



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Post #: 127
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 4:06:32 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		Thank you for this great AAR. Im going to look through some of your saves to continue to learn from you!

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Post #: 128
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 4:36:40 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you. I included the saves so people could go in and look things over themselves. It is easier to learn this way. Also consider playing from one of the saves from a previous turn and see if you can do better than me. It is possible to do so!

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Post #: 129
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 4:59:01 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

Thank you. I included the saves so people could go in and look things over themselves. It is easier to learn this way. Also consider playing from one of the saves from a previous turn and see if you can do better than me. It is possible to do so!



this is incredibly generous of you - it does create a really useful resource for anyone getting used to the game who just wants to test something out

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Post #: 130
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 5:06:51 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Hey, what can I say? I have gotten so used to supplying the saves as a play tester it is just automatic now! But it is very important to this AAR as it is meant to help demystify the air and logistics game for new players. It is evident that these two areas are causing a lot of problems for people to wrap their arms (mind) around but they are not too bad after you get used to them. Logistics is really an art form - there are very few definitively bad ways to do it and I have yet to find a perfect solution.

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Post #: 131
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 7:08:56 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		I've been looking at your files and you have a lot of depots and theyre all level 4 priority....but seems like your supply network still works? Kinda confused on that. Seems like a lot of people say only have a few depots on priority 4. Would appreciate any more insight from you and also if you have any guidance on when/where to move AOG's.

I already picked up a neat trick from one of your saves: use a shell corp HQ (no units attached minus RR SU) to move around and guide RR units to repair in the areas you want to. Very nice!

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/2/2021 7:34:52 PM >

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Post #: 132
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:04:27 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		This falls under "Logistics is an art not a science" tag. I find that keeping all of the depots at priority 4 means that you don't have a desert of no supplies on the map. If you make the priorities from low to high then the higher priority depots take from the first lower priority depot it can. This empties all of those depots that are doing things like supplying your air force, your support units (such as that Hungarian HQ and its RAR Labor units), etc. This also means that when your units send trucks back to your depots for supplies they don't have to go back to Berlin for them. So this is entirely a personal preference.

I will note, however, that once you get a healthy supply net it is beneficial to prioritize better. For the Soviets it starts at day one, for the Axis you need branching rails not a straight back to pre-war borders. So I probably should be playing around more with the Baltic area where the rail net is pretty well established. This is a topic I will get more into around turn 16 in my AAR.

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Post #: 133
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:05:05 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 Supply Net North:

Just when things were looking good logistically the front line suddenly surges forward and *poof* there went all that hard work! One problem is that I sent the northern FBD down to help out AGS where it is badly needed so I will have to make do. This turn I will have to decide whether I am serious about Leningrad or not. It will depend on the Recon Intel I collect in the Air Phase.






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Post #: 134
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:05:37 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 Supply Net South:

If you look closely in the top right corner you can see the advance of the northern FBD coming down the double line from Brest-Litovsk. The northern flank is looking good building on Kiev for the major supply depot while you can see the red FBD near the Koluft 17 coming across south the Dnepr River on the double line there. The Rumanian FBD is in the Nikolaev area and is due to be withdrawn in two turns. You can see the Hungarian Corps near Luftflotte 4 and the RAR Labor units repairing rail in that area. You can also see the supplies coming by sea into the front three ports. It is this type of supply that will be required for the Crimea operation.






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Post #: 135
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:06:11 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 Air Phase:

I readjust the Recon directives and go with the Ground Support directives still disabled.






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Post #: 136
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:06:37 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 Freight:

Good overall supply situation with the needs being overall met but some of the infantry armies (with supply priority of 2) are falling short.






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Post #: 137
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:07:04 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 AGN:

This is the turn of decision as to my attempt at Leningrad. I waited until after my drive with the 2nd and 3rd PG from AGC before I decided. With AGC reaching the outskirts of Kalinin and cutting the double rail from Moscow to Leningrad, I decide to drive for Leningrad. 18th Army advances to the outskirts of Oranienbaum. 16th Army advances after the retreating Soviets. 4th PG sends one corps to the left flank of 18th Army and is at the outskirts of Leningrad proper. The other corps goes on the right flank of 18th Army and penetrates 30 miles from there. It will prove interesting. I don't know if I can take Leningrad but it is definitely worth the risk at this point.






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Post #: 138
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:07:32 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 AGC:

9th Army is advancing after the retreating Soviets. 4th and 2nd Armies continue to press east and keep the Soviet forces tied down. 3rd PG takes Rzhev and opens the door for 2nd PG to advance to Kalinin along with forming yet another pocket. 2nd PG is now within 80 miles of Moscow. If the bad weather stays away for a few more turns then I may even be able to pressure Moscow.






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Post #: 139
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:08:01 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 AGS:

6th Army eliminates the pocket and continues to advance to the east. 17th Army is also advancing east after the retreating Soviets. 11th Army is now an Assault army and advancing to the east with one corps heading to the Crimea. The Rumanians are screening the Crimea as other forces move towards it and attempting to regain CPP. The Rumanians are confident that Sevastopol will fall to them as Odessa did earlier in the war. 1st PG is dispersed with one corps in the north helping form pockets with 6th Army, another corps making a dagger-like penetration with 17th Army, and their third corps spearheading the drive into the Crimea against little to no resistance. The XXXX Mot. Corps enters as a reinforcement and is being sent down through Hungary and Rumania as a reinforcement for 1st PG to keep the rail net from being overloaded to the north.






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Post #: 140
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:08:24 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T12 Soviet Union Garrison:

The garrison has hit 116% as the Hungarian Security Brigade has arrived along with 2 RFSS Motorized Brigades. These three units are highlighted in the pink on the display. It is possible that I may gain a few more points if the units in the garrison refit up some. It is good enough for now, I still have the Croatian Reinforcement Regiment I sent last turn to show up next turn.






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Post #: 141
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 9:08:48 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T12 Files:



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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/2/2021 10:40:26 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

This falls under "Logistics is an art not a science" tag. I find that keeping all of the depots at priority 4 means that you don't have a desert of no supplies on the map. If you make the priorities from low to high then the higher priority depots take from the first lower priority depot it can. This empties all of those depots that are doing things like supplying your air force, your support units (such as that Hungarian HQ and its RAR Labor units), etc. This also means that when your units send trucks back to your depots for supplies they don't have to go back to Berlin for them. So this is entirely a personal preference.

I will note, however, that once you get a healthy supply net it is beneficial to prioritize better. For the Soviets it starts at day one, for the Axis you need branching rails not a straight back to pre-war borders. So I probably should be playing around more with the Baltic area where the rail net is pretty well established. This is a topic I will get more into around turn 16 in my AAR.



Thanks, I'm going to try your way for my new game. Appreciate the help.


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Post #: 143
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 11:52:04 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Suply Net North:

It is only getting worse as the 18th Army and 4th PG are advancing so quickly. It is also obvious what the drive by the 2nd and 3rd PG is doing to the supply net. Military success is very anti-logistical success.






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Post #: 144
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 12:03:41 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Supply Net South:

The Crimea operation is definitely on a shoe string logistical budget. The attacks to the north are also stretching out the supply net far beyond what it can handle easily.






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Post #: 145
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 12:04:06 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Leningrad:

It is time to look closely at the Leningrad situation. With the Axis units adjacent to the double rail line from Moscow to Leningrad in two places it is no longer a source of supply for the Soviets in the area. There are only two single rail lines left leading into Leningrad. One goes through the town of Sonkovo and the other through the city of Cherepovets. In addition the Soviet forces in the Valdai Hills are only being supplied through the town of Sonkovo. Sonkovo has become a major target for railway interdiction. Unfortunately it is beyond the range of my fighters to escort them but I should have some level bombers that can make the area okay. The mission I want is either Ground Attack:Interdiction or Ground Attack:Railway. Railyards have a 30 hex range and are for loading and unloading freight - neither of which is probably happening in Sonkovo. So attacking the railways should add to the load going through that hex. I think I want to just hit the one hex REALLY hard and slow rail traffic through the hex as much as I can.






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Post #: 146
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 12:04:38 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Air Phase:

I first adjust my Recon directives along the front. I take the Recon directive for Koluft North and send it to the Sonkovo area and switch the priority to Railways. I also change the NAVAL PATROL directive to cover Sevastopol and Yalta ports hoping that I can isolate that area this turn with my panzers. I set up a Ground Attack directive with priority Railway from Luftflotte 1. It will send 153 He111s during the day on D2, D4, and D6. I expect high losses. I set up another Ground Attack directive with priority Railway from Luftflotte 2 and make it a night attack on the same three days. This will send 180 bombers its way. Losses may be high for both directives but I hope it will do something to hinder supplies to the Valdai and Leningrad areas.






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Post #: 147
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 12:05:09 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Luftflotte 1:

Let's examine the directive results from the Luftflotte 1 directive. It was three days of daylight action each with two 24 bomber missions. As you can see each mission lost at least half of their aircraft (a total of 92 lost of 144 sorties) but the damage effects look good for a total of 15,463.






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Post #: 148
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 12:05:40 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Luftflotte 2:

Now for the results of the Luftflotte 2 directive. It was three nights of two 24 bomber missions each. Here the losses were much lower for the bombers as 15 of 144 sorties were lost. However look at the damage difference as these six missions were only good for a total of 181. The daylight bombings were much higher loss rate BUT were much more effective. Considering what success could mean for the campaign, the higher losses were more than worth it. If nothing else, there is an interdiction value of 2 for the Axis in this single hex!

***SPECIAL NOTE***
I went into the Soviet side at the end of the turn to see what the effects had been. While it pretty much shut down the supply passage on this rail the other single rail had more than enough capacity to supply the Leningrad area. The Valdai Hills seemed to be under more stress however so it was effective in that regard. I probably should have bombed both targets in the daylight and accepted the losses. We shall have to wait and see what the AI responds with.






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Post #: 149
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/3/2021 12:06:05 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		T13 Freight:

The overall throughput of freight is down for the front as the Soviets managed to hit the railyards at Minsk for 40% damage during their turn. But the received is still greater than the need for the ground commands.






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Post #: 150
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