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Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/30/2021 7:36:04 PM

MrsWargamer

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Easily the best monster movie ever made.

Spoiler alert, the ending will leave you cheering.

Kong fans and Godzilla fans will love it.

And this film makes mincemeat out of every superhero film ever made. They are only second place to this film.

The movie has great music too.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/30/2021 10:37:14 PM

Lobster

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Two guys in rubber suits.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056142/?ref_=ttpl_pl_tt

Oh, you mean the new one.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/31/2021 5:20:54 AM

jwarrenw13

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I think upcoming Alien vs. Predator remake may be even better. Preview.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/31/2021 6:30:54 PM

rommel222

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Greetings MrsWargamer,
I am old school and only watch the original, Japanese, Toho originals of Godzilla and King Kong vs Godzilla with english subtitles.
I find the later/newer stuff ard to watch.

The original, Japanese Rodan with subttitles is better than the English/American version as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fONQK87h1X0

The Comet tv channel has been showing all the Godzilla "retreads" every week. I tend to pass on them.

Same is true for King Kong, only the original will do along with Son of Kong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMNICLfHE3M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBW0AXSFk9k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRXzMj-YKI

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/31/2021 7:32:07 PM

MrsWargamer

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I tend to agree rommel.

I have the original and the one with Raymond Burr.

I loathe the one in New York. Godzilla is not a scrawny knocked up bitch for crying out loud. Trust Hollywood to bugger a classic. And it sure made the US military look horrendous.

The recent one where he fights the his and her bugs was ok, but not much action really. The most recent big monster fest was a bit of a disjointed effort. It didn't 'flow' well.

The new one though, great pacing, great visuals, great music. And I can't say more without spoiling it, so I won't.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/31/2021 7:55:41 PM

RFalvo69

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I liked Godzilla in the 2014 version. It had an unexpected elegance mixed with some virtuoso sequences (the scene on the bridge at night was hitchcockian, and the HALO launch was totally breathtaking - I remember my wife grabbing my arm when they jumped).

I also liked how Godzilla was showed sparingly in the first part and slowly revealed. Alas, people didn't like this. I haven't seen the sequel, but I'm told that it is wall-to-wall monster feast. Amen to that.

Having said that, Shin Godzilla by Hideaki Anno wipes the floor with all the rest. Truly a masterpiece

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/31/2021 8:52:47 PM

MrsWargamer

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No argument regarding Shin Godzilla.

The breath attack, totally devastation.

And the Japanese military can actually hit a massive target with modern hi tech weapons :) When I watched the battle in New York it was "wow, Hollywood really hates the US military."

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Post #: 7

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 3/31/2021 9:14:03 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

No argument regarding Shin Godzilla.

The breath attack, totally devastation.

And the Japanese military can actually hit a massive target with modern hi tech weapons :) When I watched the battle in New York it was "wow, Hollywood really hates the US military."

It has been interpreted as a criticism (via a satire) of how the Japanese government mismanaged the crisis at Fukushima. In a way, Shin Godzilla returns to his roots: the symbol of a nuclear trauma burned deep into the Japanese psyche.

Regarding the US military... Their performance against Zod forces in "Man of Steel" wasn't really exemplary... Even if I believe that the F-35 fell down from the sky all by themselves, not due to the Kryptonian's defences.

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Post #: 8

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/2/2021 8:48:11 PM

AndySfromVA

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Saw the movie. Fell asleep in the middle. Lots of noise and mindless action, ridiculous plot.
The best thing about it is Millie Bobby Brown, an excellent actress (even in this movie).

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/2/2021 9:59:51 PM

Lobster

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The wife and I watched it today. She fell asleep a few times. It was boring for long stretches. Kong: Skull Island was a bit better except for the stupidity of the helo pilots. Godzilla (2014) was also better. Nothing will touch the original King Kong movie.

I missed the toy soldiers from the Toho movies.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 4/2/2021 10:00:26 PM >

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/2/2021 10:10:24 PM

MrsWargamer

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Hmm. Well, I would never want to say my movie opinions are perfect. But falling asleep during it? I think you need more rest :)

Mindless action? Really?
Silly Plot? Really?

I mean, it is about two very large mega monsters, who have beaten all other monsters to this point, dealing with each other. That's like arguing over whether Elves are realistic in a fantasy setting. They're elves.
I think most comic book superheoes by the bucket load movies lately are so right overboard to the point of nausea, that they've burned out the idea of using CGI in films entirely.

The latest incarnation of Justice League for instance. I couldn't care less what it's like. Good bad, whatever, that horse has been beaten into nothing but a red smear.
Even the superhero movies I liked, I don't want the dvd. Not worth the shelf space. I'll watch them on my TV through whatever method, if at all. I'm not spending a cent on them though.

These days, I'd rather read a good book for what a movie is intended to deliver. The pictures in my head are better than any amount of CGI.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/2/2021 10:54:30 PM

Lobster

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So Godzilla movies been beaten into a red smear? There's only 36 of them! King Kong movies? 18 of them.

Some animated, most not. So to talk about things beaten into a red smear.

Getting KK home was anti climatic. That really could have been expanded and much of the drivel eliminated to expand on that. The blog guy was almost pointless. The movie's plot line was way over rushed. Michael Bay probably would have made a better version. At least more explosions and less blah blah. He was really good at sinking carriers too.

But hey. Opinions and belly buttons, everyone has one.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/2/2021 11:18:24 PM

MrsWargamer

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No, I said Super hero comic book movies have been beaten to death.

I thought the blog guy was a bid for humour that was clumsy.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/2/2021 11:25:51 PM

Lobster

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Just to be sure you understand. Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. Not seen Justice League yet but not sure I want to sit through a four hour movie. I have a hard time with a movie much over two hours. My butt gets numb.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 9:16:19 AM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Just to be sure you understand. Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. Not seen Justice League yet but not sure I want to sit through a four hour movie. I have a hard time with a movie much over two hours. My butt gets numb.

Since it is on streaming you can consider it like a two-parter, or a four hour miniseries. There are even chapter titles intersped in the storyline.

As I wrote elsewhere, I don't see a reason to suggest this movie except if you are a fan of Snyder's specific style of shooting - and consider the various action scenes as videoclips (the final assault was the only really cool moment, but I had to live through 3+ hours of nonsense to reach it).

To give an example, I'll spoil a small thing story-wise but an incredible hole logic-wise. Both in Man of Steel and in Batman vs. Superman (I only watched the Director's Cut of BvS) the superhero action was grounded in reality. In MoS the US Army reacted in force to an alien invasion. BvS literally started with something that usually is hadwaved away: the enormous human toll and collateral damage that a superhero battle unavoidably causes. Here, we have a big battle in the middle of Metropolis and only two soldiers and a cop show up (?!?). There is a colossal superpowered battle in Russia, near Moscow, and no one shows up, not even a Russian helo.

An important part of the story is "a strong heat bloom" and only Bruce Wayne's satellites can see it. Notice that this heat bloom is nothing special. Is not a "sci-fi heat bloom" (for the lack of a better term) that can only be seen if you know some right frequences or such. It is a heat bloom visible from space. Is the World asleep?

Zack Snyder's Justice League is four hours of this and nothing more. Four hours wasted

< Message edited by RFalvo69 -- 4/3/2021 9:39:15 AM >

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 12:34:47 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndySfromVA

Saw the movie. Fell asleep in the middle. Lots of noise and mindless action, ridiculous plot.
The best thing about it is Millie Bobby Brown, an excellent actress (even in this movie).

I'm halfway in, just after the first big battle, and I got my first nosebleed.

Yes, MBB is usually good - pity that she is saddled with the tired "Godzilla just obliterated Pensacola (literally... I mean: how many people were killed?

) but I'm plucky so just do know that he is good!" insufferable trope. Plus, the comic-relief sidekick. Plus "We find some guy that no one else in the planet was able to find because we ask around!"

(BTW: an extreme paranoid buys something in unusually enormous quantities from a single place that has his address? Seriously? He doesn't buy small doses in a lot of places and hasn't them delivered in, dunno, a shed that he keeps under remote surveillance anyway?)

No one warns the fleet that is escorting Kong that... you know, GODZILLA is on the hunt?

Big battle follows. Three movies in, and the US Navy still hasn't learned that their missiles don't even scratch Godzilla. In turn, they fire them while Godzilla attacks the ship where they chained Kong without being bothered by the fact that the ship is in the line of fire and full of civilians...

Godzilla and Kong sink more ships and kill more US Navy sailors than Pearl Harbor and Savo Island combined, but we are supposed to root for them anyway. (Who concocted this whole plan anyway? No one saw all of this coming?!)

Rebecca Hall is underused too. Very underestimated actress. "The Awakening" was one of the best ghost stories of the last few years. Nothing to do for her here.

More to follow, sadly

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 1:04:51 PM

Lobster

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One of the times my wife was awake during the movie I asked her why they didn't airlift the monkey in the first place.

Someone commented that they were taking a route that was Godzilla free. Did they have a tracking device on him? This movie had so many holes it must have been made in Switzerland. I realize it's a fantasy movie but there has to be some things that are grounded in the real world. Even Toho knew that and tried to use more logic.

BTW, the Japanese mostly defeated Godzilla with science. The U.S. used a little girl.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 1:15:27 PM

MrsWargamer

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You guys actually expect rational, reasonable, realistic, in a movie where a guy can fly because of sunshine?
Where a man can fly fast enough to reverse time, but can't beat up a guy in advanced hi-tech body armour.
Come on.

The movie has a massive ape, who really is just a very large gorilla, nothing more magical, versus a very radioactive mutated lizard looking aquatic primitive dionsauroidish creature that can breathe fire and when really pisses can generate blasts of nuclearish, laserlike electrical energy beams.
But you want attention to logical detail?
Why would a plane that can engage targets from miles away, need to fly within arms reach of these monsters? Well, the monster's arms are only several feet long eh. They'd never be able to hit them if they flew out of reach. That wouldn't be fair or very dramatic.
As for troop casualties, well, it's supposed to be dangerous in the military right?

I suppose CGI can't yet simulate 100s and thousands of human bodies from all the sudden carnage of a monster being bodily thrown through a major urban structure.
So I'm not going to be that demanding.

But I'm kinda tired of comic superhero films being some form of superhero convention. Hey, let's mash up every character from the entire range of comic books that Marvel or DC has under their possession. I'm just wondering why no one has ever thought of to do Marvel vs DC. Maybe they would argue over who owned the movie.

Plots are routinely a hassle, but that's because authors know how to write books and not movies, and directors know how to direct movies, but not how to write books. Usually.
So books tend to have better plots. And movies tend to have better action. But you rarely get something that is both.
I hated the film Dune, because it wasn't the book Dune. Maybe if Frank Herbert was also a great director.
Perhaps if a director had ever written a great novel, they'd understand why sometimes the best action sequences can only be written down, not actually filmed. The best pictures appear in my head. I never watch the television version of my romance novels. They're always inferior.

Kong vs Godzilla IS a great movie.

But the world isn't Hollow, at all, in any way shape, or fashion. It isn't flat either. And nuclear waste won't feed monsters. And monsters will age like anything else living. They need a real ecosystem. They need to reproduce like all other life forms. They require a diet that has to come from something replenishable. And there, several of my knowledge sets ending in ology have just ruined everything :)

I don't like porn either. Too Fake, waaaaay to fake.

Best part of the movie, the little girl.

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 1:23:05 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Easily the best monster movie ever made.

warspite1

I hear its based on a true story....

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 1:48:43 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

The movie has a massive ape, who really is just a very large gorilla,

Oh, Rampage is a fair movie with a big ape. I don't mean Dwayne Johnson, I mean the gorilla. Mighty Joe Young (1949) also, the original, not the lame remake.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

But the world isn't Hollow, at all, in any way shape, or fashion.

Wut?

But Brendan Fraser went there in 2008. I saw it right there on the tv.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 4/3/2021 1:53:32 PM >

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RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 2:22:08 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Easily the best monster movie ever made.

warspite1

I hear its based on a true story....

It is: the original was a Twitter flamewar.

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Post #: 21

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 3:37:36 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
The movie has a massive ape, who really is just a very large gorilla, nothing more magical, versus a very radioactive mutated lizard looking aquatic primitive dionsauroidish creature that can breathe fire and when really pisses can generate blasts of nuclearish, laserlike electrical energy beams.
But you want attention to logical detail?

Sure. Any good fantasy/sci-fi story does. The classic start is "What if (we are in a fantasy world/mythical creatures do exist for real/magic does exist in our World)? Once these basic rules are given, what you expect is for the story to evolve logically from them.

Harry Potter asks "What if there is magic in our World?" and develops the concept in a logical way extending it across history. It is part of the strengths of the series.

In Star Wars we have X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Star Destroyers and the idea that the dogfights happen in WWII ranges. We also accept that we hear the roars while in deep space because in SW cool beats that law of physics.

Bring a X-Wing in 2001: A Space Odyssey and you will kill the movie.

Does this means that in SW everything goes? No. When in "The Last Jedi" Admiral Holdo weaponised hyperspace, audiences groaned everywhere. A) Tens of thousands of years of a whole galaxy using hyperspace and no one ever thought to use it as a weapon? B) OK, let's say that, yes, she was the first. With a single scene you just killed the essence of the space wars in Star Wars. Why attack the next Death Star or Super Star Destroyer at all? Just put some droids aboard some mass torpedoes and fire them at lightspeed towards the target. Problem solved.

Even Umberto Eco once piped in on the matter. "If in a fable we are told that a magic ring will turn you invisible, or into a frog, at the end the ring will not be able to turn you into an armadillo 'because it is magic'. Either you have a good reason embedded in the plot for this twist or it is only bad writing. No, 'We are in a fable!' won't work either." So:

quote:

Why would a plane that can engage targets from miles away, need to fly within arms reach of these monsters?

Exactly. Why? (Why to fire weapons that, over and over and across multiple movies, are shown to be ineffective in the first place?) Things like these only bring me screechingly out of the yarn. Good writers sweat blood and find intelligent solutions. Bad writers say "Hey! It is a fantastic romp! Give me a break!" - and cash their checks.

Stanley Kubrick said that the hardest thing to do in "2001" was to find a way for HAL to discover that Poole and Bowman were planning to deactivate it. Notice how "He is superintelligent!" didn't cut it: there was no reason at all for HAL to suspect such a "betrayal". One day Kubrick was wandering through the set when he noticed that HAL's eye could see through a compartment's window. From there he got the idea that HAL could read Bowman and Poole's lips. It was one of the last things they put in the script

quote:

As for troop casualties, well, it's supposed to be dangerous in the military right?

True. It still doesn't make the creature "the good guy"...

quote:

I suppose CGI can't yet simulate 100s and thousands of human bodies from all the sudden carnage of a monster being bodily thrown through a major urban structure.
So I'm not going to be that demanding.

I'm not demanding to see that (not in a PG-13 movie at least - even if in "Armageddon" you actually saw the civilians fall out of the buildings). But "Godzilla attacks!" + "A whole city flattened with no time for an evacuation" tells you all you need to know.

quote:

Kong vs Godzilla IS a great movie.

Sorry. "Godzilla 2014" was a good movie. "Shin Godzilla" was an excellent movie. The new "Planet of the Apes" trilogy was a string of really good movies - the proof that you can start with a sci-fi concept (intelligent apes in our modern World) and develop their story over three movies in a realistic, poignant and logical way. I'm 2/3 in GvsK and I'm not even liking the cinematography. To each his own, I guess.

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Post #: 22

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 4:24:03 PM

Lobster

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Immersion is important. To get there you have to have some plausible things happen that people can relate to in the real world. If you break reality completely then there will be problems with immersion. Don't take my word for it, there have been lots of studies. Doesn't matter if it's a game or a movie. Just to throw things into a movie to make it visually exciting won't do it. The carrier task force was totally over the top. "Turn everything off and he will go away". Ok, so if you know sound attracts Godzilla why the heck did you group two carrier task forces that you knew would be totally useless if it were attacked that creates huge amounts of sound??? Break from reality. Just one of many. But hey, it's a fantasy movie. Some won't bother with that stuff and that's ok. People have to have a job.

Oh, here's one I love. Kong: Skull Island. Why didn't the helos climb out of Kong's reach? Why didn't the helos stand off and fire? These were seasoned combat pilots. What the heck is wrong with this picture? "Hey, lets fly around his face like flies and let him swat us."

That was a huge break from reality for me.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 4/3/2021 4:27:43 PM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 5:33:12 PM

RFalvo69

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OK, part two.

The whole "Hollow World" mythology makes no sense (Earth Sciences is the only thing I studied in high-school, and it is physically impossible. Let's say that we accept it as part of this reality.)

The plucky trio of a paranoid guy and two high-school students infiltrates a Area 51-level base by... going there and walking in. No armed sentries, security cameras... dunno, pressure plates or laser-activated alarms in sight

The Hollow World mission starts! However, they say to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (*) what will happen in this mission during the mission? No pre-mission briefing for those involved?

(*) Because, come on, she is AOC. Why they got her involved is a mystery.

Also: no one fired drones or other probes into the Hollow World to evaluate key elements like the effects of reverse gravity, composition of the atmosphere, potentially dangerous virii and bacteria... maybe a megasaurus waiting with its jaws open for the first stray stupid to come out of the opening?? The only way they have to see if they will survive the first five seconds is... going in?!

Astounding. I wrote the above after pausing the movie. I unpaused, and the very first thing that happened...

I can now officially call myself an Hollywood screenwriter

Meanwhile the plucky trio - after surviving an acceleration of 0-610Mph in five seconds, arrives...

...I mean... They arrive in the middle of an Arena where dozens of scientists are looking straight down at them, an experiment starts... And no one still notices them?! OK.

The token comic-relief sidekick knows that this new monster is not "Robogodzilla" but "Mechagodzilla" - because one can totally know how an unknown monster is named by just looking at it.

King Kong entered the Hollow World under Antarctica. Godzilla fires his blast downwards from Hong Kong and created a tunnel, a few kilometers deep, that connects the two places. OK.

The plucky trio is finally captured. To unlock this achievement the had to go everywhere in another evil base with no surveillance cameras or stuff (not even in the room where they kept a neural-net PC based on a skeleton), and press/activate anything in sight. It was worth a wild shot and it worked. They just wanted to be captured and they were getting desperate.

There is now a direct opening between the Hollow World and the surface but not a single evil megacreature either flyes or climbs out.

Godzilla and Kong fight again, this time in the middle of Hong Kong (billions of victims). No matter how many skyscraper they do destroy, however, the overall number never changes. In HK, destroyed skyscrapers immediately rebuild themselves off screen.

"It seems that this round went to Kong!" - at once Godzilla KOs Kong for good.

Godzilla doesn't fire his breath against Kong face, from 5 yards away, and thus closing the battle, because... reasons.

Mechagodzilla is turned on and, in a plot twist everybody saw coming, immediately goes rogue. He kills the bad guy in a stunning display of monstrous, mechanical violence, but the plucky trio standing three yards from him is spared.

It turns out that the bad guy is the unsung hero of the movie. Godzilla and Kong were bound to bring untold destruction upon the World - but, thanks to him creating Mechagodzilla, they now have a common enemy and will be able to be friends.

The plucky trio can't divine out of thin air the password to a multibillion dollar project. They just can't have a break.

The plucky trio destroys the console instead, and Mechagodzilla short-circuits. Wait... Didn't it just go rogue? Why it is still connected to the console at all?

The end. Mechagodzilla lies in ruins, Godzilla returns to the sea against the setting sun, Kong returns to the Hollow Earth and everybody is happy.

Well, it was fun!

Writing this I mean, not the movie...

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Lobster)

Post #: 24

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 5:43:32 PM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Immersion is important. To get there you have to have some plausible things happen that people can relate to in the real world. If you break reality completely then there will be problems with immersion. Don't take my word for it, there have been lots of studies.

The most important thing for a movie (or any other form of storytelling) is to give the illusion that you are watching a window into an alternate reality. Something as banal as a bad special effect, an implausible decision or even a microphone accidentally entering the scene is enough to destroy this illusion.

"Inception" at his core, is all about this. Even Christopher Nolan said how the main inspiration was "making a movie".

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Lobster)

Post #: 25

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 5:44:36 PM

MrsWargamer

Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline

:)

That's all I can say :)

I've always wondered, why can people enjoy Hershey bars over and over? They're always the same.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 26

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 8:33:27 PM

Lobster

Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

:)

That's all I can say :)

I've always wondered, why can people enjoy Hershey bars over and over? They're always the same.

Only if they have almonds.

_____________________________

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 27

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 8:49:04 PM

MrsWargamer

Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline

Nah, I'm a purist, chocolate is best when it is smooth, creamy and no bits in it.

Hershey's Special Dark or just milk chocolate. But Dark is good if you are vegan (so I'm told).

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to Lobster)

Post #: 28

RE: Kong vs Godzilla aaaaaawesome - 4/3/2021 9:34:02 PM

bomccarthy