According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2)

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According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 5:18:31 PM

MrsWargamer

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Was just reading a comment about WitE and WitW and whether a combination was going to happen.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991047

According to that, you ain't going to see that apple and that orange turned into fruit salad in all likelihood.

I'd say it is because one is an apple and once is an orange.
Both fruit, but not the same fruit.

Lemon lime works, it's a fluke though.
So don't waste sleep waiting for apple orange.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

Post #: 1

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 7:22:13 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Was just reading a comment about WitE and WitW and whether a combination was going to happen.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991047

According to that, you ain't going to see that apple and that orange turned into fruit salad in all likelihood.

I'd say it is because one is an apple and once is an orange.
Both fruit, but not the same fruit.

Lemon lime works, it's a fluke though.
So don't waste sleep waiting for apple orange.

It would seem that, if they maintain their promise, Schwerpunkt will emerge victorious in the race for "Europa"

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 2

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 8:08:58 PM

MrsWargamer

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As far as I know, they already have a product that merges their Russo German War and their Anglo German war.

I'd already own it, but I need to get it through Paypal. Perhaps next month. I routinely forget to think of it.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 3

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 8:43:36 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

As far as I know, they already have a product that merges their Russo German War and their Anglo German war.

I have it. Unfortunately the UI is idiosyncratic, but not that hard to learn with a bit of patience.

Some scenarios alone are worth as much as other finished games. I have no problems to wait for the developer to finish his "Magnum Opus" (unlike what happened with "that other" Magnum Opus, cough...)

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 4

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 9:17:17 PM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69
I have no problems to wait for the developer to finish his "Magnum Opus" (unlike what happened with "that other" Magnum Opus, cough...)

I've been waiting to buy it until the editor is released, and I understand that the editor won't be released until the scenarios are finished. Last time I check, the game dev has been working on one scenario for more than two years, and there are dozens more scenarios. So I'm not holding my breath with this one...

(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 5

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 9:37:56 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69
I have no problems to wait for the developer to finish his "Magnum Opus" (unlike what happened with "that other" Magnum Opus, cough...)

I've been waiting to buy it until the editor is released, and I understand that the editor won't be released until the scenarios are finished. Last time I check, the game dev has been working on one scenario for more than two years, and there are dozens more scenarios. So I'm not holding my breath with this one...

The game dev is working on the #102 "Europe 1939-1945" scenario, and he will finish the missing ones after completing the global one because it will be easier (the only missing scenarios are the Grand Campaigns).

Regarding the rest, the game has almost one-hundred finished scenarios, with many of them requiring many hours to be completed. It even has a full North African Campaign 1940-43 - air and naval assets included. That's one of them.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to 76mm)

Post #: 6

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/4/2021 10:03:26 PM

MrsWargamer

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I like that Ron stated in the beginning, it was a board game on a computer. And not a computer board game :)

RGW and AGW both had no AI opponent. The idea was always, you'd need another human to play the other side. Although apparently, he managed to create an AI for the merged offering.

Myself, I'll tolerate an AI for anything under a day's effort to play. But any wargame requiring hours per turn, I simply won't play the AI in that. It's either me vs you or me vs me.

The idea I'll invest many hours/days/weeks only to let an AI ruin it with some manner of worthless decision-making process is asking too much of me.

I loathe horrible interfaces, but, I'm a veteran board gamer and a past ASL veteran :) A complicated UI is a nuisance, not a mountain too high to climb. I can't imagine any non-hardcore wargamer wanting his product.
I can't imagine any novice wanting anything with Gary's name on it either :)

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
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(in reply to RFalvo69)

Post #: 7

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 2:18:55 AM

Rosseau

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Thanks for the update on Ron's latest game. I had the earlier ones and bought the "new" one on release but got a bit disgruntled by the delay of the editor and so many years in development.

He sent me a personal note that assuaged my frustration, so I will just keep on waiting. And yes, the UI is much like RFalvo69 describes: a steep learning curve but doable and pretty cool if you keep at it.

But like so many of these complex games, if you leave them for a few months, you are often tasked with beginning the learning curve (almost) all over again! This is honestly my biggest wargaming "problem" over the past few years. With so many titles, I simply can't keep all the rules straight.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 8

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 3:37:43 AM

MrsWargamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

Thanks for the update on Ron's latest game. I had the earlier ones and bought the "new" one on release but got a bit disgruntled by the delay of the editor and so many years in development.

He sent me a personal note that assuaged my frustration, so I will just keep on waiting. And yes, the UI is much like RFalvo69 describes a steep learning curve but doable and pretty cool if you keep at it.

But like so many of these complex games, if you leave them for a few months, you are often tasked with beginning the learning curve (almost) all over again! This is honestly my biggest wargaming "problem" over the past few years. With so many titles, I simply can't keep all the rules straight.

Ohhhhh don't I know it.

The games I WANT to play, are rarely the games I actually play.
And often the games I play, are just the ones that had the least aggro in learning the mechanics of HOW to make the game do anything.

I have a lot of John Tiller Games. Easy to collect, but the interface is quite the wall.

Today, I have sat down, played a game, figured out the interface, moved on to the next game.
Tigers on the Hunt was the easiest to master after watching a video.
LnL Tactical Digital, watching a video doesn't really do much if the guy playing isn't explaining much.

It took a few tries to refresh myself on Squad Battles. The Move Fire button is not too 'obvious' Is clicked move or is it fire? I would prefer they had a move button and a fire button. But eventually, you click the unit, you activate the unit and you realize what is the move version and which is the fire button. And then presto you are moving and firing and things make sense.
Board wargame rules manuals just spell it out so much easier. No computer interface to master.
But once you master Game 1, they are all the same interface.
So I went on to Panzer Battles Normandy. Ouch, twice as many buttons :)
But once you get into John's head, they start making a sort of continuity sense.
So I'm looking forward to beating my way through a lot of Tiller games that have quite the pile of dust on them.

I have spent most of the last 10 years buying and not playing.
But after spending the last 10 years mostly making models, I've run out of room.
So I'm thinking, maybe it's time for a lot of wargaming. I bought them, might as well play them.

I'm thinking of hitting the task for Ron's games. If I can figure out Tiller, he should be about the same (I hope).
I personally think if you have Ron's games, you don't need Gary's. It gets redundant. You can only game something so many ways eh. I don't think Gary is better than Ron. I don't think Ron is better than Gary. I think you just need one design or the other. And Ron's manual is smaller :)

Ohhhh I wish I could figure out World in Flames. But I have no prior mastery of the board game. I'm an A3R devotee.
I have the World in Flames board game, just never have the space.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 9

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 4:14:53 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Was just reading a comment about WitE and WitW and whether a combination was going to happen.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991047

According to that, you ain't going to see that apple and that orange turned into fruit salad in all likelihood.

I'd say it is because one is an apple and once is an orange.
Both fruit, but not the same fruit.

Lemon lime works, it's a fluke though.
So don't waste sleep waiting for apple orange.

thats a huge leap of interpretation off an ill-informed post discussing how easy it would be to generate a scenario combining the two games using the WiTE2 engine?

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Post #: 10

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 8:25:52 AM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I like that Ron stated in the beginning, it was a board game on a computer. And not a computer board game :)

Exactly, and I like this game a lot for this reason alone. No agonising about how many 20mm rounds a Pkw II had vs. the thickness of Sherman's side armor. Only ye olde "Attack vs. Defense" with Terrain Effect Modifiers.

And it still manages to have both the Air and the Naval war.

quote:

RGW and AGW both had no AI opponent. The idea was always, you'd need another human to play the other side. Although apparently, he managed to create an AI for the merged offering.

Ron, however, is the first to admit that the AI can't really manage a "seesaw" situation like the North African Campaign: over time it will break down. The AI is fine for "Attacker vs. Defender" scenarios, like Poland 39 or France 40. Also, there are a lot of options that make things easier or harder for each side - including the possibility to choose the AI's personality. IMHO, HtH is still the best option. And some scenarios are so big that 1 turn/day is a perfectly fine approach.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 11

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 12:35:41 PM

MrsWargamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Was just reading a comment about WitE and WitW and whether a combination was going to happen.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991047

According to that, you ain't going to see that apple and that orange turned into fruit salad in all likelihood.

I'd say it is because one is an apple and once is an orange.
Both fruit, but not the same fruit.

Lemon lime works, it's a fluke though.
So don't waste sleep waiting for apple orange.

thats a huge leap of interpretation off an ill-informed post discussing how easy it would be to generate a scenario combining the two games using the WiTE2 engine?

I thought it was rather to the point actually. A fan will probably argue the point. But I disagree on referring to it as 'ill informed'. WitW and WitE2 don't even speak the same language.
I speak English and I don't speak French. I wouldn't get far in a conversation with a French speaker who doesn't speak English. Even if we are both Canadian, it doesn't help. And interestingly, I'm from Quebec. But it doesn't matter.

The argument is moot.
A3R was designed to be West Front and East Front simultaneously. It's why it beats WitE2 effortlessly. If you want to play both fronts at the same time.
I'm currently thinking of grabbing Ron's game, as his 2 fronts are the same design. And they are as complete as WitE2 wants to be.
But as mentioned, Ron's game doesn't spend time with ammo loads and rations.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 12

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 1:54:03 PM

RFalvo69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
I'm currently thinking of grabbing Ron's game, as his 2 fronts are the same design. And they are as complete as WitE2 wants to be.
But as mentioned, Ron's game doesn't spend time with ammo loads and rations.

Something that is not even necessary if you think about it.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 13

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 3:36:54 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer
I'm currently thinking of grabbing Ron's game, as his 2 fronts are the same design. And they are as complete as WitE2 wants to be.
But as mentioned, Ron's game doesn't spend time with ammo loads and rations.

Something that is not even necessary if you think about it.

Aye. IMO pointless to break them down. Without one the other matters not.

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Post #: 14

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 3:38:12 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Was just reading a comment about WitE and WitW and whether a combination was going to happen.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991047

According to that, you ain't going to see that apple and that orange turned into fruit salad in all likelihood.

I'd say it is because one is an apple and once is an orange.
Both fruit, but not the same fruit.

Lemon lime works, it's a fluke though.
So don't waste sleep waiting for apple orange.

thats a huge leap of interpretation off an ill-informed post discussing how easy it would be to generate a scenario combining the two games using the WiTE2 engine?

I thought it was rather to the point actually. A fan will probably argue the point. But I disagree on referring to it as 'ill informed'. WitW and WitE2 don't even speak the same language.
I speak English and I don't speak French. I wouldn't get far in a conversation with a French speaker who doesn't speak English. Even if we are both Canadian, it doesn't help. And interestingly, I'm from Quebec. But it doesn't matter.

The argument is moot.
A3R was designed to be West Front and East Front simultaneously. It's why it beats WitE2 effortlessly. If you want to play both fronts at the same time.
I'm currently thinking of grabbing Ron's game, as his 2 fronts are the same design. And they are as complete as WitE2 wants to be.
But as mentioned, Ron's game doesn't spend time with ammo loads and rations.

And costs less than $70+ U.S.

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Post #: 15

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 3:41:17 PM

MrsWargamer

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Yes, I'm rapidly getting up to speed with a few wargames with irksome interfaces.

I think it's time I fired up AGW and added it to the list. Get all ready for acquiring his combined offering.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to Lobster)

Post #: 16

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 4:15:07 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Was just reading a comment about WitE and WitW and whether a combination was going to happen.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4991047

According to that, you ain't going to see that apple and that orange turned into fruit salad in all likelihood.

I'd say it is because one is an apple and once is an orange.
Both fruit, but not the same fruit.

Lemon lime works, it's a fluke though.
So don't waste sleep waiting for apple orange.

thats a huge leap of interpretation off an ill-informed post discussing how easy it would be to generate a scenario combining the two games using the WiTE2 engine?

I thought it was rather to the point actually. .... But I disagree on referring to it as 'ill informed'. WitW and WitE2 don't even speak the same language.
....

well since I wrote the post you refer to it maybe I have some idea how well (or otherwise) informed it was as to the real plans?

I was responding to someone asking how easy it would be to build a combined scenario and gave him some of the practical problems, suggested how you might, just, be able to cobble something together but that a significant problem is the core game design runs on a 2 faction model and for some form of War in Europe to work you'd need 3?

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Post #: 17

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 4:29:42 PM

MrsWargamer

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I think it funny you made the first post, and then called it ill informed :)

Soooo, am I supposed to value your ill informed post any more :)

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Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

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Post #: 18

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 9:01:22 PM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

I like that Ron stated in the beginning, it was a board game on a computer. And not a computer board game :)

RGW and AGW both had no AI opponent. The idea was always, you'd need another human to play the other side. Although apparently, he managed to create an AI for the merged offering.

I didnt have AGW, but RGW had an AI I'm sure. though it's been a long time since I played.

Thanks
Rick

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 19

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 9:25:05 PM

MrsWargamer

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Nope, RGW and AGW both have no AI whatsoever. I have them.

it's only been added to the recent release of the full theatre program.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to rickier65)

Post #: 20

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 9:41:51 PM

Aurelian

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Nope, my RGW has AI, I bought the game when it came out.

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 4/5/2021 9:48:28 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 10:16:56 PM

Lobster

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Been a long time since I played either of those but I seem to remember they can be played solo quite well. But like I said, been awhile.

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Post #: 22

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 11:22:27 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Been a long time since I played either of those but I seem to remember they can be played solo quite well. But like I said, been awhile.

Just to back up my post: http://dogsofwarvu.com/forum/index.php/topic,3079.0.html

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Post #: 23

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/5/2021 11:58:32 PM

MrsWargamer

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Hmm

Officially
http://schwerpunkt.games/misc/games/russo-german-war-41-44/
Yes there is an AI.

Never thought there was.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 24

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/6/2021 1:30:40 AM

GloriousRuse

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Oh...for crying out loud...

Loki, a forum moderator, WitX tester, and manual writer - not part of the core dev team or business unit - says that he does not know if there are development plans or aspirations for a War in Europe or some WitW/WitE2 hybrid.

He then lists some of the challenges that would be present in trying to combine the WitW and WitE2 engines, hence why it would a large project and probably not easily done at the mod/community level. Even a comparatively short read through the associated forums would tell you that there seems to be a common misunderstanding that you can just kluge WitW and WitE2 together (followed usually by "so just do that, ok? It'd be cool"), so he is also addressing that obliquely.

What it is not, in any way, is a statement from a programmer, C-suite officer, developer, studio head, public relations type, etc. about the inner workings, designs, or plans of 2x3 or Matrix. Taking it as a declarative statement of intent for the company's future plans would require a willful disregard for the context, the speaker, and the actual written words.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

Post #: 25

RE: According to this, it isn't coming (after WitE2) - 4/6/2021 2:15:18 AM

Lobster

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It's always comical how quickly people get tired of a game and start musing about remaking it. Bigger. Better. Whatever.