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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 12:44:04 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
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Status: offline 		T15 Air Losses:

The LW have heavy fighter losses but they have caused heavy losses to the Soviets.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 12:44:30 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T15 Production:

The truck pool is still above 10K so I am happy with that considering my supply situation. There are 179K Axis Generic (aka Hiwi) manpower in the pool so that will be a nice boost next year. You can see the toll the fighter losses have been having on my production. There are no fast recovery for them.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 12:44:49 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T15 VPs:

I am high enough with the VPs that the war will continue into 1942 now. I do have 14 turns to make another 200 VPs for a Sudden Victory at the end of the year. Leningrad and Moscow are in play (kind of anyways) and that would be about 100 of the necessary points for the Sudden Victory. I can see maybe Leningrad falling before the end of the year but Moscow is too much of a long shot and I would still need 100 VPs beyond them so the southern front will have to really move to gain it. But it is possible to do if things fall my way. But I seriously doubt that.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 12:45:20 PM   
carlkay58

 

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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 3:29:53 PM   
CaesarCzech

 

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Status: offline 		Imho you are well positioned so that the late 1942 Early 1943 victory seems possible.

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Post #: 185
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 4:15:26 PM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Carl, these saves are really nice material, thanks for sharing them! I'm trying to get some kind of grip on the logistics systems, and with limited time to spend playing, these saves are really helpful to dig through and make own tests!

That said, I don't really understand how your logistics network actually can support your spearheads so well? To me it'd seem really counterproductive to have so many priority 4 depots all over the Soviet Union? I actually checked it out, you have 121 priority 4 depots in Soviet lands alone, and they are storing an insane amount of freight. Didn't calculate it all together, but only in Brest-Litovsk - Lvov - Vinnitsa area there's 250k+ tons of freight stored in depots going nowhere. It's very likely a good practice to have the depots set up along the main lines of advance, and maybe even store some freight on them even if they're not close to front, but this seems like a case of excessive hoarding from the rear area quartermasters :D

The rail lines are all easy green and yellow, armies all seem to be more than well supplied, the Panzer Groups are getting almost double the freight they need even when on offense, so this all leads me to think if the axis logistics level is really working correctly in the current version? Carl's advance is following approximately historical speed; shouldn't the rail lines be strained, with supply shortages at least in some of the front sectors? Instead I'm seeing 170000 tons of freight sitting idle on Przemysl-Vinnitsa rail alone, enough to supply the whole OKH command chain for more than a month. Carl is doing a fine job, but there's something fishy going on in the logistics department don't you think?


EDIT: I was actually thinking that on the Freight screen in Logistics Report, the "Supply Lost" wasn't reduced yet from the "Supply Received" number, but I think it actually is. So for example 2nd PzG had supply need of 1983 tons, but received a whopping 3473 tons!

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/4/2021 4:27:57 PM >

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Post #: 186
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 4:36:05 PM   
Nix77

 

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Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I'm also wondering why the Smolensk - Vyazma rails aren't more strained since there's 2PzG, 3PzG and 9A all operating in that bulge, and they received more than 12000 tons of freight in supplies and replacements this turn. Some of the units draw from Vitebsk rail, but still the rail usage seems really low in that area with two full panzer groups concentrated there?

EDIT:
3rd Panzer seems really under-utilized, you could probably add at least two corps from 4A and 9A (to benefit from the assault status? I think having the assault HQs filled to the brim (with some room for regiment splitting) is a sound strategy. They have upgraded command limit, so commanding four corps with 3-4 divisions each would be optimal.

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/4/2021 4:45:46 PM >

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Post #: 187
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 4:45:36 PM   
Jajusha


Posts: 249
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline 		Your fighter losses are heavy, sure, but so is your per turn production. 2 or 3 turns resting and they will be in full strength.

Buuuuut, the hs-126 recon, talk about a deathtrap, and they are also the majority of your recon groups. Not sure how long you will be able to keep flying them

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Post #: 188
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 5:53:34 PM   
Repsol

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/20/2010
Status: offline 		The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...

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Post #: 189
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 6:08:59 PM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...



Most of Carl's infantry armies are on Priority 2, that's why they're getting lower supplies. 9A is P4 and 11A is P3.

I'm hoping that having 120 Priority 4 depots in Soviet territory in October isn't the go-to logistics strategy :D I estimated that Carl's depots in Soviet territory are storing 600k+ freight on turn 15. Total ground+air need currently is around 40k+. Of course replacements etc. can raise that considerably, but 600k is enough for 10+ turns, which is kind of crazy. And these are only the depots in conquered Soviet territory.


Carl, have you been using the AI depot placement or manual placement? AI placement is actually cost effective (it can place up to 10 with a cost of 5AP) if you're planning on having lots of depots.

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/4/2021 6:37:55 PM >

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Post #: 190
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 6:09:29 PM   
Jajusha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...



They are at their limit thought, doesn't matter if they are supplied if they can't get more then 60% of their TOE

Plus the truck numbers aren't that much better. 7k in pool, but his units are missing 12k trucks.




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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 6:26:29 PM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jajusha

They are at their limit thought, doesn't matter if they are supplied if they can't get more then 60% of their TOE

Plus the truck numbers aren't that much better. 7k in pool, but his units are missing 12k trucks.



Whoa, that's true! 9th PzD has three(!) PzIII ready and no mechanized elements at all.

And am I reading this correct... the PzDivs are missing almost 1800 medium tanks from the lineup, have 232 of them in pool & transit, and are producing only 50 of them per turn? Seems quite grim to me!




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< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/4/2021 6:40:50 PM >

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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 6:46:08 PM   
Nix77

 

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Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline 		The starting number for missing medium tanks on T1 is -817, so that number has raised with over 1000 tanks... Carl has lost around 550 PzIII tanks, that sounds like a pretty high number to me?

After this I'm going to be reluctant to drive my PzDivs more than 100 miles per turn, keeping them on high CPP all the time :D

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/4/2021 6:47:14 PM >

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Post #: 193
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 7:13:54 PM   
Repsol

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jajusha


quote:

ORIGINAL: Repsol

The infantry armies seems to be suffering somewhat with regards to supplies but it does not look all that bad. The panzer groups seems to be having a real nice time in old russia...
Is this a result of the HQ/depot-priority settings i wounder ? A further question is...is this WAD ? Should the player be able to allow the panzergroups to 'race around' like this ? It is far from historical atleast i belive...



They are at their limit thought, doesn't matter if they are supplied if they can't get more then 60% of their TOE

Plus the truck numbers aren't that much better. 7k in pool, but his units are missing 12k trucks.





The 2nd and 3rd panzergroup divisions seems to be really well of when it comes to tanks (unless the 3.reg 3.pzd and 2+3.reg 4.pzd have been disbanded or something...i don't see them on the list.

1st panzergroup seems to be far worse off. I guess this comes from priority settings.

2nd and 5th panzerdivisions are fairly new arrivals.

I had a look at the reinforcement screen but it does not seem like these divisions have recieved any particular reinforcments recently to bring them up to these numbers. The panzer battalions are arriving in november it seems.

At the begining of october typhoon would kick off


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Post #: 194
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 7:14:24 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

The starting number for missing medium tanks on T1 is -817, so that number has raised with over 1000 tanks... Carl has lost around 550 PzIII tanks, that sounds like a pretty high number to me?

After this I'm going to be reluctant to drive my PzDivs more than 100 miles per turn, keeping them on high CPP all the time :D


I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.

Ya, the game is a Marathon not a race(although there are certain racing elements for certain things). Being a marathon need to have a measured approach on what you need to accomplish. Most advances, not all, I will try and leave 20 or more MP's. Refitting a depleted Division usually takes a few turns even on a depot with an HQ. So have to plan accordingly.

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Post #: 195
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 7:52:26 PM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.


Really, that many depots? Wouldn't 5-8 hex intervals on depots be enough, priority on size 2+ railyards? What's the advantage of storing huge amounts of freight on rail lines far from the front?

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Post #: 196
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 8:30:09 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.


Really, that many depots? Wouldn't 5-8 hex intervals on depots be enough, priority on size 2+ railyards? What's the advantage of storing huge amounts of freight on rail lines far from the front?


Similar but not that many depots. I space my depots about 6 hexes apart. When turn 7/8ish comes around I will show what I do in my game.

Storage closer is always nice. Less far to travel on the trains from rail yards. At lease that is my thinking on the matter. My first game I used the AI supply feature and I got hosed. Took that system over around turn 9 and implemented a system of storage from NSS all the way to the front and improved my overall supply tremendously.

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Post #: 197
RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 8:40:01 PM   
Bamilus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

The starting number for missing medium tanks on T1 is -817, so that number has raised with over 1000 tanks... Carl has lost around 550 PzIII tanks, that sounds like a pretty high number to me?

After this I'm going to be reluctant to drive my PzDivs more than 100 miles per turn, keeping them on high CPP all the time :D


I do a similar supply network but not everything level 4 as Carl does.

Ya, the game is a Marathon not a race(although there are certain racing elements for certain things). Being a marathon need to have a measured approach on what you need to accomplish. Most advances, not all, I will try and leave 20 or more MP's. Refitting a depleted Division usually takes a few turns even on a depot with an HQ. So have to plan accordingly.


How do you do encirclements if you leave 20mp?


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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:11:28 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Yes my supply net is rather strange but I leave you with this: the rear depots have been saving up freight and supplies which I have not really needed as of yet. But when the bad weather hits - next turn as a matter of fact - then that supply is closer to the front and easier to ship forward. You guys will love my turn 16 below.

Yes all of my troops are beginning to hit the wall in regards to strength. PG 2 is probably the worst of them as they have yet to really be able to pull back and recover either replacements or CPP. That will matter in the long haul.

I probably will be able to put together an impressive 42 and possible Sudden Victory in that period - that at least is my hope.

But now on to turn 16!

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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:13:37 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Soviet Attacks:

So having mentioned that the Soviet AI has been fairly passive suddenly they launch 19 Deliberate attacks against my forces. The results are six Retreats and the rest Holds. They are concentrated in the Leningrad and Moscow areas.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:14:01 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Supply Net North:

The rains are here. This makes those long red lines even deadlier to the trucks. AGC has been improving as the rail net has moved eastward but AGN is not getting closer to the front fast enough. The FBD I sent to help AGS will complete that other double line this turn so it will go north to help out AGN.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:14:27 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Supply Net South:

The Crimea is helped by the two minor ports and next turn I hope that Sevastopol will kick in.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:14:56 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Air Phase:

I disable all air directives at this time. I do not plan on much combat activity this turn so it is time to save some aircraft. I also delete the Naval Patrol directive. They have done their job. Note all of the defined air directives are listed but none are checked and nothing flew.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:15:22 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Freight:

Things still look like it is working but on the edge. I will have to try and improve this as soon as possible or the blizzard weather will really be bad.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:15:46 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Kerch:

Due to some discussions on the forum I took a quick screenshot of Kerch just after I captured it. Note the Supply and Fuel stores captured but especially the Resources!






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:16:10 PM   
carlkay58

 

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18th Army does another assault on Oranienbaum and reduces the fort level to 2. 15th Army breaks down to regiments which allows it to pull back a corps from the front line for refit and CPP recovery. 4th PG completes the pocket of 10 Soviet divisions while advancing so the last rail line into the Leningrad pocket is under ZOC so it cannot be used for rail supply. It does not isolate the pocket but the supply going into it is extremely restricted now.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:16:37 PM   
carlkay58

 

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9th Army spreads out as regiments while also helping with the pocket on the eastern side of the Kalinin bulge. 2nd and 4th Army also spread out trying to free up more troops to help out the PGs. 3rd PG is pulled back to the new railhead for rest and refit. 2nd PG is still having to hold the eastern edge of the bulge with a minor penetration to the north and reforming the pocket more securely near Vyazma.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:17:02 PM   
carlkay58

 

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6th, 17th, and 11th Armies continue to advance eastward. The Rumanians are consolidating their control of the Crimea along with the Italian Corps. The 11th Army and 1st PG corps in the Crimea are withdrawing to help with the push on the Dnepr River bend and beyond. The 1st PG is pulled back for rest and CPP recovery.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:17:49 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Rail Net North:

It is raining on the entire map so it can be educational to explore the Axis logistics as they currently stand and are operating. I activate the 'r' key to show the rail status. The circles are: Green (good and connected rail), Yellow (good but not connected rail), Orange (hard to see at this scale but repaired this turn and will be good next turn), and Red (needs to be repaired). In addition it shades the areas where supplies are prohibitive to deliver. This is evident in the Valdai Hills with the 16th and 9th Armies. So it will be priority to repair rail in this area. The yellow highlighted units are FBDs.






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RE: Heading East into the Soviet Union - 4/4/2021 9:18:24 PM   
carlkay58

 

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Status: offline 		T16 Rail Net South:

This rail net is actually better than in the north. The only real area of concern is well to the rear in the Pripyat Marshes.






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