Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S), Soviet Viewpoint

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S), Soviet Viewpoint Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S), So... - 3/31/2021 6:00:30 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
This is my first attempt at a multiplayer game with WITE 2, playing one of the smaller more manageable scenarios (The Road to Leningrad), playing as the Soviets against AtAtack. Good luck and have fun!




June 22, 1941, 4:13 AM

Sir! Comrade Kuznetsov!

Sir!


General Fyodor Kuznetsov, commander of the Soviet Northwestern Front, slowly drifted into consciousness

Sir! Wake up!

Kuznetsov: "What... What in the name of... What ARE YOU DOING IN MY HOUSE, COLONEL?"

I am sorry sir, but we have received reports, 3 reports at the time that I left headquarters to fetch you, reports from our border guards that the Germans are attacking them in force.

Kuznetsov: "What? A provocation, a raid, or a real attack?"

Some of our border guards reported that they were being attacked with tanks, and they expected to be overrun shortly. This was about 15 minutes ago, and I left to wake you as soon as we had confirming reports from multiple commanders.

Kuznetsov: "My God!"

Within two minutes, Gen. Kuznetsov and Col. Morozov were sitting in a staff car racing towards the Northwestern Front Headquarters in Cesis, just to the north-east of Riga.



Over the course of the next week, the Soviet defenses in the Baltic melted under the withering German surprise assault. A great tank battle was fought near Raseiniai, and although a few T-34s and KV-1s acquitted themselves well, they were quickly outmaneuvered, surrounded, and destroyed by German divisions that coordinated their attacks with radios. By the end of the week, Riga had fallen to aggressive German Panzer attacks, and much of the Front was encircled, had surrendered, or had routed and had only limited men and equipment left.

Out of 35 engagements of a significant scale in the Baltic front, the Red Army had won only a single tactical tactical victory when the 28th Tank division held off an attack from the German 11th Infanterie-Division. But even in that battle, the Soviets lost more men than the Germans, and the even the heroic 28th Tank Division was now surrounded 50 kilometers behind the front lines, with little prospect for escape.

In total, in the Northwestern Front alone, the Soviets had already lost 63,932 men, 1171 guns, 263 tanks, and 926 planes - not counting all the troops that were encircled!

The situation was, at least, a bit less disastrous further inland near Vilnius. There, the Soviets still had a reasonable number of divisions which were not encircled - yet. However, they were at great risk of quick encirclement in a large salient, because to their south General Pavlov's Western Front had already lost Minsk. The only possibility was to try to withdraw as many troops as could be withdrawn from the Vilnius Salient and try to set up some sort of defensive line - somewhere or other. God only knew where that might be possible, given the unprecedented scale of the disaster so far.




Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 3/31/2021 6:42:45 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Soviet Air Turn 1:

We are using AI air assist (and I don't want to focus on micromanaging air too much at this stage of learning the game), so I don't do much. I just set:

a) All the air to retreat.
b) Set it to only fly missions if there is at least "good" weather to reduce operational losses.
c) Set AI to automatically decide when to upgrade planes based on equipment available.
d) Prioritize pilots for the "good" planes (i.e. MiGs).
e) I am vaguely aware from HYLA's AAR that maybe I should be bombing the railyard in Riga and fly some sort of naval interdiction missions, so I set the air doctrine to do those missions on higher priority.

I am not sure (I think not) that the AI will actually do that or do it optimally, but I am not trying to min-max the air, and I also figure it is probably fine if the VVS doesn't do everything it ideally should do, in particular since I probably can use those not-encircled units near Vilnius to delay the German advance a bit more in that area than it probably normally would be.

In any case, it seems like the AI didn't execute any missions during the air phase (due to the retreat order), and TBH that is just fine with me. In a few weeks we will probably be happy to still have some planes.

Note: after this point, I will probably delay posts by at least a turn or two (maybe more) in order to maintain some basic operational security.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 2
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 3/31/2021 8:09:06 PM   
FriedrichII

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 3/16/2021
From: Germany
Status: offline
Very interesting. I will follow this promising AAR with interest.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1
Note: after this point, I will probably delay posts by at least a turn or two (maybe more) in order to maintain some basic operational security.


My experience in the wargaming community is that with a gentleman agreement this is not necessary.
I had written a few AAR/DAR about Combat Mission H2H battles and I was always sure the agreement will be respected.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 3
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 3/31/2021 8:35:33 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
About a week after the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, a day or two after the fall of Minsk on June 28, Stalin sits in stunned silence at his Dacha...

He ponders to himself:

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe
Catch a Red Army Officer by the toe
If he confesses let him go to Siberia,
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe
My Commisar told me
To pick the very best one
And you are [not] it.


Decisions, decisions. Disaster abounded. In the Northwest, Kuznetsov had lost Riga. In the West, Pavlov had lost Minsk. (At least) one of them had to go. But which one?

At least in the Northwest the entire front seemed not to have entirely collapsed - at least so far. A significant number of divisions were boarding trains near Vilnius and hopefully would escape before the Panzers arrived to trap them.

Whereas in the West, virtually the entire Front had totally disintegrated.

Yes, it was Pavlov. It was Pavlov all along. Pavlov was conspiring with the Germans, it was his treachery that caused this disaster - and certainly not anything that Stalin did (or did not do).

Also, at the time of the attack Pavlov had been attending an Opera in Kiev. At least in the case of Kuznetsov, he responded fairly quickly to the attack and went straight to his headquarters.

I suppose, Stalin thought, Pavlov's treachery just goes to show that the Purge of the Red Army had probably not been sufficiently thorough, there were still Trotskyite traitors everywhere.

< Message edited by Beethoven1 -- 3/31/2021 8:37:48 PM >

(in reply to FriedrichII)
Post #: 4
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 3/31/2021 8:37:00 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FriedrichII

My experience in the wargaming community is that with a gentleman agreement this is not necessary.
I had written a few AAR/DAR about Combat Mission H2H battles and I was always sure the agreement will be respected.



I am sure that is probably the case. In this instance though we didn't actually discuss an AAR beforehand, we just started playing (it would probably still be fine, and I won't delay updates too long in any case).

(in reply to FriedrichII)
Post #: 5
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 3/31/2021 9:36:43 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
Strictly speaking, Pavlov and Kuznetsov both lost. Pavlov lost his life and Kuznetsov his Front command in a matter of days from one another.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 6
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 3/31/2021 9:50:41 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Strictly speaking, Pavlov and Kuznetsov both lost. Pavlov lost his life and Kuznetsov his Front command in a matter of days from one another.


Hopefully Kuznetsov will fare better in this alternative reality! Of course, that remains to be seen, and depends upon what the Gods of War have in store for us.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 7
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/1/2021 4:13:40 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Soviet Turn 1:

Somewhat against my better judgment, I decided (rather, Stalin "suggested") a fairly forward defense. The defense is certainly not intended or expected to hold outright, but I am hoping that I can do a fighting retreat and slow down the German advance. My hope is that if the German advance can successfully be slowed down by a turn or 2 before AtAtack gets to Pskov/Tallinn/etc, that will buy time to get more divisions up to speed and prepared, and subsequently make it a long hard slog to Leningrad.

There were several reasons for this strategy:

1) I thought that I could probably afford to risk a forward defense, because the units saved from the Vilnius area should give me a bit of an extra cushion. I do expect to lose some units to encirclement due to this forward defense, but hopefully it is not so many that it doesn't pay off. The two Panzer/motorized divisions that were cut off should (hopefully) be a bit lower than usual on fuel, and I expect the fact that they were cut off in the first turn may make AtAtack wary of getting similarly cut off again if he gets too aggressive with his mobile units before the German infantry catches up.

2) It seems like there is a significant amount of defensible terrain with a lot of swamps and forests, and also the big river, and it would be a shame to give up all that good terrain without any fight whatsoever.

3) Comrade Stalin demands it. Having finally been retrieved from his dacha, Stalin has expressed dismay that the Vilnius area had to be evacuated, and one can only imagine how he would react if General Kuznetsov were to tell him that we needed to abandon the Dvina/Daugava area without a fight. We wouldn't want General Kuznetsov to end up like Pavlov, after all. It is more fun and feels more historical to play this way. It is entirely possible that I will change my tune in another turn or two after suffering another disastrous encirclement...



Here is a screenshot of the Southern part of the map. The situation here seems relatively good. I was able to rail out a good number of divisions to safety. There was not enough rail capacity to rail out every last division using the normal mechanic. The game also would have allowed me to transfer another division or 2 out to the national reserves, but if there is not rail capacity to actually move them out, to me that seems like an exploit to magically rail them into the reserves without using more rail capacity that is not available to move them normally, so I didn't do that. I think I also might have misclicked on a division or 2, which led to the 2 divisions on the same hex about 3 south of Daugavpils. Perhaps somewhat foolishly, I decided to leave 1 mechanized division just south of the Dvina/Daugava in the hopes that it might be harder to encircle those two divisions.

In addition, I also temporarily avoided 3 divisions being isolated and temporarily cut off what looks like 1 German motorized division and probably a Panzer division south of Daugavpils.

I'll post more detail on my defense further north later (probably need another turn to go by).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 8
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/2/2021 4:43:11 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
The next screenshot shows the situation on turn 1 further north.

In the pocket along the coast (Kurland pocket), I still hold 2 ports, and consequently the units there are not considered "isolated." In fact, the game would even allow me to disband some of these units and return all their manpower/equipment to the national stockpile, but I didn't do this because that seems like an exploit. However, the game also allowed me to evacuate 1 division via naval transport, which does seem more realistic and so I did save 1 infantry division in the Kurland pocket that way. Sadly there was not enough transport capacity to evacuate any of the other divisions.

Another thing you can see is that I used a lot of rail capacity evacuating units (note all the reddish/orange colored rail lines). I am afraid that might mess up my supply next turn (especially because I don't really know well how the depots/supply works, and I didn't have 5 AP so I couldn't use the AI depot assist. So if I did things wrong, my troops may be out of luck next turn. Combined with the choice of an aggressive forward defense, that probably means a non-negligible chance of a disaster next turn.

A final thing to note is that although Kuznetsov (average skill rating 4.1) has not been formally relieved of command of the Northwest front, a huge number of troops which were formerly in the Northwest Front have been re-assigned to the Leningrad Front, where they will fight on under the leadership of General Popov (skill rating 5).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 9
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/2/2021 4:53:19 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Axis Turn 2:

Dmitry Lelyushenko, who only just became the Corps commander of the 185th Mechanized division a few days ago, braced for the Axis onslaught. Manstein's Panzers were coming. Two Soviet divisions just to his south were struggling to escape across the Dvina before the Panzers arrived, and meanwhile on the northern side of the river the Paratroopers were still in the process of digging in. Lelyushenko and the 185th sat in between. Lelyushenko knew that the fate of those divisions, and whether Mannstein would secure a bridgehead at Daugavpils, rested on his shoulders, and on how long the 185th could slow down the German advance.

He sent a 2 word order to the divisional commander.


DIG. IN.

But with communications in chaos, who could know when - or if - the order would be received.



There seems to have been surprisingly little combat activity on Axis turn 2. It was mainly a turn of consolidation, where AtAtack cleaned up and solidified the German pockets.

The only ground battle, except for in the pockets, was an attack by the 8th Panzer Division on the 185th mechanized division that I put just south of the river line near Daugavpils. My best general, Dmitiri Lelyushenko, had been placed in charge of the division and 186 (!!!) SB-2 bombers showed up to join the party - fortunately the Luftwaffe did not show up, or quite a few of those unescorted bombers might not have made it home alive... Although the 185th routed in the battle, it seems to have accomplished its mission and didn't lose too much men and equipment (under the circumstances), which was to make it more difficult for Axis to convert the 2 other divisions 2 hexes to the south.

Now there will be an opportunity to withdraw those two divisions behind the Daugava/Dvina. The other good news is that the infantry division near Vilnius has still not been encircled, and the other AT brigade should be able to escape. Presumably lack of resupply from having temporarily cut off the German Panzers, as well as the delay caused by the 185th mech, limited how far Germany could move.

However, there is an element of fear here as well - in particular because I don't really know how far and how fast a human Germany player can advance, since this is my first MP game. What happened to the Panzer divisions that took Riga on turn 1? I presume they didn't move, which probably means they have built up some supply and CPP to attack on turn 3. After this turn of consolidation, will Germany unleash a storm of fury next turn?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 10
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/3/2021 7:03:53 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
The screenshot below shows the Soviet deployment at the end of turn 2, which remained the same at the beginning of Soviet turn 3 (there were 0 battles).

I had managed to form a continuous front line, with some screening forces/reserves in front of the line in some places, and behind in others. I had been expecting that at least some of the divisions might end up being encircled, but I was counting on the combination of bad terrain (swamps etc) and zones of control eating up enough movement points from the German mobile divisions to avoid a massive disastrous encirclement. In addition I assumed that most of the German infantry was probably still lagging behind. I thought that I could afford to lose a few divisions if push came to shove since I had rescued some troops from below the Daugava - although I could not afford to lose an unlimited amount.

Fortunately, it turned out that there were no encirclements, and not even a single German attack. The only sign of German activity other than cleaning up the pockets was the advance of some motorized regiments in between some of my screening NKVD border formations. However, this raised fears of what might be coming the next turn, with the German Panzers now presumably better rested and supplied...

Stalin also decided that instead of sacking or shooting General Kuznetsov, he would order that General Morozov be relieved of his command of the 11th army and replaced by Ivan Konev. Most of the Soviet tank/mechanized/motorized divisions were placed in the 11th army, including Lelyushenko's corps.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 11
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/3/2021 7:32:55 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
End of Soviet Turn 3:

On turn 3 I further consolidated my lines. In most areas I now had enough troops to form a reserve line (generally 2 hexes behind the main line).

I considered instead pulling back, a bit further, but I didn't want to abandon the river defense line in particular in the south, and in the north there was still a lot of swampy territory and a lot of zones of control that the Axis advance would have to work its way through, and hopefully the movement points eaten up would prevent or limit Soviet losses.

Now for some discussion of my broader strategic plans (perhaps some of the more experienced players can comment on whether this makes sense). To me it seems like the most important thing on the map is the double-tracked rail line north through Daugavpils to Pskov and then on to Leningrad. That rail line is of vital logistical importance for Germany to be able to supply an advance on Leningrad. If the Axis advances towards Velikie Luki, that is relatively less important, because a journey into the hinterlands would not threaten Leningrad. Likewise I was relatively less concerned about an advance from Riga, either up the Baltic coast or from Riga towards Pskov, because there are no double rail lines on any of those potential axes of advance. Although there are some ports on the Baltic coast, it takes some time to start getting good supply from those, and having some ports doesn't substitute for having a double rail line. Also, (as we have started to see), any advance from Riga towards Pskov must go through some fairly bad swampy terrain.

Consequently I tried to concentrate my defense on the double rail line.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 12
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/3/2021 8:03:12 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
On Turn 4, the Axis attack began in earnest.

AtAtack attacked at 4 different points on the Daugava/Dvina. In two places he forced the Soviet defenders to retreat, but in two others the defenders held firm. In addition, German tanks began advancing on the western flank - directly through swamps - which fortunately seems to have eaten up the Panzer divisions MPs.

Kuznetsov was pretty happy with the outcome of this turn. Although my river defense had been broken, not a single German division had actually crossed near Daugavpils. Hopefully this was beginning to slow down the pace of German rail repair. He thought that he could possibly have sent reinforcements to try to hold the river for one more turn if that were the only Axis of attack, but the greater risk was now on the western flank, and it seemed unlikely that encirclement could be avoided for another turn.

Consequently Kuznetsov decided that in this case discretion was the better part of valor, and he requested permission from STAVKA to withdraw from the Daugavpils salient, to form a shorter and straighter front line behind the banks of the Aiviekste and on nearby rough terrain, to reduce the risk of imminent encirclement by the German Panzers.

Stalin expressed dismay at the idea of a further retreat, but in light of the disasters unfolding further to the south, Zhukov was able to persuade Stalin to grudgingly assent to a limited tactical retreat.

However, while the situation on land seemed to be going as well as could be expected, the losses for the VVS were particularly high, with 498 planes shot down. Soviet fighters and bombers alike were both massacred no a grand scale. I was ok with this though since presumably the involvement of all those planes was part of the reason why my divisions seemed to often be retreating rather than routing or shattering (and consequently opening up lanes for potential encirclements). In one air battle over the German Panzer attack through the swamps, the Red Airforce lost 77 fighters even though only 50 fighters were in the battle. The VVS was in such poor shape that it apparently lost planes that did not even exist (seems like some weird bug?).

Also note in the screenshot one of my Tank divisions is up to a combat value of 9

Slowly but surely, we are recovering from the initial shock of war and getting stronger.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 13
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/3/2021 8:08:32 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
By turn 4, the Soviet OOB is starting to catch up to the Germans, thanks to an influx of reinforcements (helped by the divisions that were saved). By turn 5 the Soviets should be fielding about as many men as the Germans.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 14
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/3/2021 8:10:44 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
The VVS has been decimated. At least the German plane count is also decreasing, they lost 75 planes on turn 4 (as compared to 498 for the Soviets).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 15
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/3/2021 8:12:29 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
The attacks over rivers and into swamps were costly for the German Panzer Divisions. This attrition, if it continues, will hopefully prevent the Panzers from being effectively able to advance down the road when we get closer to Leningrad (and for that matter Pskov).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 16
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/4/2021 9:04:49 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Turn 5 Start:

Not that much happened in Axis Turn 5. AtAtack attacked in the north - note for reference a turn or 2 from now that this is the Totenkopf SS Motorized division - and also in the center-north towards Pskov. The push for Pskov is on!

General Kuznetsov expects this to continue the next turn, and wants to avoid any risk of an encirclement, so he orders some minor tactical withdrawals.

In addition, note in this screenshot at the beginning of the turn there are a few division screening the route in the Baltic into Estonia. However, I am afraid of the possibility that some of these screening divisions may end up being encircled, and I also want to make very sure to maintain depth in my defense in front of Pskov, to avoid encirclement there. The way I look at it, if I can just delay the capture of Pskov while also avoiding any large scale encirclements, I should be able to end up holding Leningrad at this point. These Baltic screening forces are a bit stronger than they look, because the "security" division is actually an NKVD motorized division with about 10,000 men, not just a rinky-dink border guard.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 17
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/4/2021 9:14:57 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
By the end of Turn 5, the Soviet deployment looks as below, with all the screening divisions pulled back to strengthen the defense of Pskov (except the Tallinn garrison and two NKVD border guards to screen the northern flank). Essentially, I decided to allow AtAtack to advance into the Baltic if he wished. Any forces sent into the Baltic would be drawn away from the attack on Pskov, so while that was not ideal, it was at least acceptable. At a certain point I would need to add back some defense in the Baltic, but the time when that was really necessary seemed to lie at least a turn or two into the future.

I was also a bit worried about my southern flank, but it seemed like I probably had enough speedbumps there to prevent any large scale encirclement possibilities, and in addition any advance there would not take the rail line - at least not in a single turn, and no mobile divisions were visible there. It appeared that the enemy would probably attack the rail line head on, but ideally I would have liked to have another division or two in the south.

< Message edited by Beethoven1 -- 4/4/2021 9:26:15 PM >

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 18
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/4/2021 9:27:11 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Getting screenshot to work:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 19
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/4/2021 10:14:24 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Start of Soviet turn 6 (South):

Germany made a two-pronged attack towards Pskov, with the northern pincer more or less where I expected it, and southern pincer on the southern flank that I was a bit concerned about. In the south, AtAtack pushed far, but not at all widely and without protecting his flanks basically at all from risk of being cut off.

In the northern pincer, Germany ran straight into the 3rd Tank division, which by this point had risen as has as 11 combat value on the counter. In this battle alone, Germany lost 67 tanks. The 3rd tank division also entered as a reserve division in two other battles prior to this one, and in total Germany lost a total of 140 tanks and 67 planes this turn. Soviet losses were also high, with -143 planes and -442 tanks subtracted from the OOB.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 20
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/5/2021 6:39:45 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
NOW HERE IS WHERE THINGS GET INTERESTING

In the Baltic, Germany also has started advancing, seemingly with one division moving forward a long way. I'll bet that is the motorized division that was just fighting nearby last turn...


Given the situation on the road to Pskov, some sort of withdrawal there is necessary. However, there are different ways I could withdraw...

I know that I will have to send at least some units back into the Baltic, but it is a question of how many - and if I send too few, then a few screening divisions might just end up being encircled.

I decide to pounce......




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 21
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/5/2021 7:39:59 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
As it turns out, the Soviets do actually have quite a few units with quite a few movement points, which (at least potentially) provides an opportunity to deal with an individual unit snaking deep into Soviet territory.

Given the opportunity, I decided to take it. I sent a large number of divisions north to encircle and try to eliminate the German motorized division - at first about 1 and a half armies, and the next turn up to two (or even a bit more) Soviet armies.

Why did I do this?

First of all, because it seemed like it ought to be possible. This motorized division was presumably the Totenkopf motorized division, which had fought several battles the last turn and consequently was presumably not that fresh. In addition, as mentioned in the previous post, the other German mobile divisions had also fought a lot the previous turn, and were all pretty far away. So I thought they would have a tough time quickly coming to help with the German mobile divisions.

Secondly, part of the reason for doing it was simply to test whether or not it was possible to punish Germany for snaking forward with a single division all by itself. I honestly don't know (or didn't know when I did this, which at this point is a few turns ago) whether it was possible at this stage in the game to actually eliminate an encircled German mobile division.

Thirdly, I thought that it would make this game more interesting. What I could have done is simply kept up a slow cautious retreat, and at this point in the game it seems like Germany is significantly behind historical schedule, so I could probably just have taken the easy and straightforward approach for a "win." The risk of doing this was, necessarily, I had to weaken my defense of Pskov a bit to send so many divisions to the Baltic. So the risk was that I could lose Pskov more quickly.

Fourthly, part of the reason to do this was simply to seize the initiative and attempt to distract Germany from Pskov. Having encircled this division, and not just encircled it 1 hex behind the lines but 3-4 hexes behind, I knew that if AtAtack wanted to break out the division without losing it, he would have to divert a large amount of troops, presumably including many or all of his 5 other less-than-fresh mobile divisions. If they went to Estonia, they would not be attacking Pskov, and would be out of position to attack along the double rail line through Pskov afterwards.

I actually wasn't totally sure how AtAtack would react to this. Maybe he would divert a lot to try to rescue the division, or maybe he would abandon it and just keep pushing straight through to Pskov.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 22
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/5/2021 7:58:54 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Meanwhile to the south, I pulled back for the most part to the Velikaya river line:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 23
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/5/2021 10:18:30 PM   
Jajusha


Posts: 249
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
Not criticizing anyone, trying to be purely constructive, but i believe the german attack lacked objective.
The panzer army was divided by turn one, and even after taking riga and crossing the duagava, half the panzer divisions decided to stay south of the river until turn 5, dreaming for an encirclement that never happened and letting you reach not only lvl 1 forts, but defending on a major river all over the line.

By then you had already a 2 to 3 hexes deep defense on the way to pskov and only now on turn 7 are the germans on the position they should be by turn 3. You capitalized on the divided spear head, you retreated as the infatry arrived, and i belive your delay tactics won you this game.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 24
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/6/2021 8:36:59 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Turn 7: The Battle of the Turi Pocket

Early in the morning of August 3, 1941, General Konev's orders for Operation Tot-the-Totenkopf went into effect.

Unfortunately, despite the Totenkopf division being completely surrounded/isolated and attacked with 124,062 men, 1422 guns, 751 tanks, with 50 fighters and 125 bombers helping out, and the Soviets all under the command of a good General (Konev), the Germans held firm (with 2 to 1 odds in favor of the Germans, even!). There were some factors that helped the Totenkopf division to hold, however:

a) They unfortunately happened to have stopped in a swamp hex.
b) The hex was also a town - AtAtack said afterwards that being in a town (the town of Turi) apparently helps supply even if you are isolated (I was not aware of that beforehand).
c) The Totenkopf division had received air supply from German transport planes.

I could have attacked with more divisions, and in retrospect perhaps I should have, but I was hoping that with the huge number of divisions I had in the way, I could keep the German division motorized and then attack it the next turn if I did not manage to eliminate it in one single turn.

Surely with all those divisions there and so many zones of control etc, and with the German Panzer divisions being fatigued and having been in heavy combat and out of position at the beginning of the turn, surely under those conditions I should be able to hold out and keep them isolated for one more turn...

Right?

Wouldn't you think so?

Right?

Right?




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Jajusha)
Post #: 25
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/6/2021 8:43:53 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Turn 7 South:

Not much happened in the South. It appeared that the Germans had diverted a large and powerful force to try to free the Totenkopf division from the Turi Pocket. Still, I expected some sort of attack on Pskov and/or the southern flank towards Veliki Luki the next turn. And frankly, my line looked pretty weak there. The flip side of having sent so many troops to try to eliminate the Totenkopf division was that I was definitely more vulnerable than I otherwise would have been at Pskov, and I could well lose it over the next turn or two, depending on how far the German infantry had advanced and how many of their mobile divisions had been sent north.

Given that my attack on the Totenkopf division had failed this turn, I wasn't sure if it had been worth it. It had clearly diverted some German effort, but it also had diverted my defense.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 26
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/6/2021 8:59:21 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Turn 8:

Unfortunately the Germans managed to break out the Totenkopf division. In the last hex, Germany made 3 separate attempts to dislodge the Soviet 163rd Mechanized Division, the first two of which failed. The final and 3rd attempt was made by the Totenkopf division itself, which broke itself out despite being isolated.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 27
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/6/2021 9:02:52 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
Meanwhile to the south, Germany had pretty much reached my lines just about everywhere. However, Germany did not do more than a few attacks on my line. It appeared that Germany had sent either all or almost all of its mobile divisions to the north. I counted 5 out of the 6 of them that were visible having fought in battles or on my intelligence when I hovered over the units to the North/West of Pskov.

This bought me a bit more time to reinforce the defense of Pskov.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 28
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/6/2021 9:58:18 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
In the north, I reacted to the breaking of the pocket by retreating and sending as many units back towards Pskov as I could. I abandoned Tallinn, because it didn't seem to make any real sense (?) to just sacrifice units there to certain encirclement/destruction. The only reason I didn't retreat further was lack of movement points to move out some of the units that were stuck partly in German zones of control.

My assumption was that Germany could not really sustain an attack towards Leningrad from Estonia alone because there would not be enough supply without a double-rail track. This goes back to the point that I thought Pskov was the really vital area due to its importance in WITE1 AARs that I read and due to the double-tracked rail there.

But was this assumption actually correct? Does Germany actually have any supply problems? TBH I hadn't seen much if any sign of Germany's mobile units becoming noticeably weaker, either from continuous combat or from the various times that I had cut off divisions (several times in the game so far). Honestly I couldn't really judge this, due to lack of experience playing WITE2 at this point.

I also assumed that Germany would probably spend the next turn sending most or all of its mobile units back towards Pskov. But that too was just an assumption.

One thing to note is that my flanks in the north are weak - perhaps too weak. Perhaps in my . But I thought that surely... surely... after all of this fighting... after having cut off some Germans at various points... surely... they ought not to have too many movement points and supply left...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 29
RE: The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S)... - 4/6/2021 10:04:07 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
In the south around Pskov, at the end of Turn 8 my line still felt sort of thing (and definitely lacking in depth). But the saving grace was that the German mobile units were (at least mostly) out of position for any attack on Pskov, and most of the German infantry - at least that which was visible - was in regiments, so HOPEFULLY somewhat thin...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> The Road to Leningrad: AtAtack (G) vs Beethoven (S), Soviet Viewpoint Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.828