RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots

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RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/6/2021 11:21:26 PM

chuckfourth

Posts: 222
Joined: 10/26/2011
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Hi MakeeLearn
Yes you are correct it is an attention grabbing headline, what I'm actually saying is that if you capture a enemy HQ you get a few tons of supply, If you capture intact compliant, 1 million population city you get nothing. Seems to me to be a rather large omission.
Do you know (if they exist) what those supply movement penalties are over the 30 hex range from depot to unit?

Ah elmo3, the sort of abuse I got so used to in WITE 1, you could just as easily have pointed me to the appropriate part of the manual, but preferred abuse, says a lot more about you than me my friend. Nothing to contribute but anger.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 91

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/6/2021 11:58:03 PM

MakeeLearn

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Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chuckfourth

Hi MakeeLearn
Yes you are correct it is an attention grabbing headline, what I'm actually saying is that if you capture a enemy HQ you get a few tons of supply, If you capture intact compliant, 1 million population city you get nothing. Seems to me to be a rather large omission.
Do you know (if they exist) what those supply movement penalties are over the 30 hex range from depot to unit?

From my little knowledge supply movement penalties would be terrain dependent and range limited.

25.2.5. MAxIMUM RANGES

The maximum distance a unit can access a depot is cannot be more than 30 hexes away. Ideally, the routine will try to avoid paths that cost 75 or more movement points but such a path might occur depending on the circumstances.These values will vary if the morale or logistics levels are set above 100.

"4.10.13. UNIT RESUPPLY

When a unit is eligible to get resupplied from its HQ it must first pass a leader administrative check. If successful it may get up to 20% of the need of the item (Motorized units seeking fuel or Artillery Units seeking Ammo get up to 40%) subject to availability and loss during the delivery.

Note that this process is repeated for up to 5 times per turn for each unit. Thus a unit that has good commanders all the way up the command chain (15.5) is likely to receive more supply on average than one that has poor commanders.

Units look to draw freight from the nearest depot, which can be some distance away. The further the unit is from the depot, the greater usage of vehicles and fuel to move the supplies and the more that is lost in transit.

The range for this supply is limited to either 30 hexes or 75 motorized MP if the logistics level is set to 100. All units can get freight from a depot up to 3 hexes away without vehicles by using horses.

Once the closest depot is depleted of freight, a unit will try to get its remaining needs from the next closest depot up to a maximum of five but normally only will access two different depots.

I have not read what the bonuses or penalties are for raising or lowering the logistics level.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/7/2021 12:06:27 AM >

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Post #: 92

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 12:12:01 AM

chuckfourth

Posts: 222
Joined: 10/26/2011
Status: offline

Thank you MakeeLearn.

Very excellent what I am interested in is the amount of supplies lost in transit.

So to be precise, at what distance from the depot do we begin to lose supplies?
and
How much supplies do we lose at the various distances?

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Post #: 93

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 12:21:36 AM

MakeeLearn

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Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chuckfourth

Thank you MakeeLearn.

Very excellent what I am interested in is the amount of supplies lost in transit.

So to be precise, at what distance from the depot do we begin to lose supplies?
and
How much supplies do we lose at the various distances?

I would guess that both are random. A check is probably done at every hex and for every amount lost.

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Post #: 94

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 6:44:43 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chuckfourth

Thank you MakeeLearn.

Very excellent what I am interested in is the amount of supplies lost in transit.

So to be precise, at what distance from the depot do we begin to lose supplies?
and
How much supplies do we lose at the various distances?

potentially at 1 hex

variable, truck breakdowns etc

you can see losses in the unit supply tab

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Post #: 95

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 4:49:55 PM

malyhin1517

Posts: 1426
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From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Russian ponies could make do with grazing, seasonal, as a primary source of food. The higher bred German horses needed grains to supplement their grazing.

"Captured cities should be immediate supply depots" ???
A depot is more than just supplies, it is a infrastructure to manage and distribute. A investment of a AP to create the infrastructure seems justifiable.

There are no ponies in Russia! :) Our horses also love to eat grain, but they also eat hay!

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Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 96

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 5:17:11 PM

MakeeLearn

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Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Russian ponies could make do with grazing, seasonal, as a primary source of food. The higher bred German horses needed grains to supplement their grazing.

"Captured cities should be immediate supply depots" ???
A depot is more than just supplies, it is a infrastructure to manage and distribute. A investment of a AP to create the infrastructure seems justifiable.

There are no ponies in Russia! :) Our horses also love to eat grain, but they also eat hay!

I did not mean to disparage Russian horses. There are fine breeds of horses in Russia. I have read of the use of Russian ponies in WW2, such as the Ob Pony, that would be similar to America Indian ponies, in that they could survive on low-quality forage.

Guy Sajer wrote about them in his book "The Forgotten Solider"

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/7/2021 5:21:58 PM >

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Post #: 97

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 6:22:44 PM

malyhin1517

Posts: 1426
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From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Russian ponies could make do with grazing, seasonal, as a primary source of food. The higher bred German horses needed grains to supplement their grazing.

"Captured cities should be immediate supply depots" ???
A depot is more than just supplies, it is a infrastructure to manage and distribute. A investment of a AP to create the infrastructure seems justifiable.

There are no ponies in Russia! :) Our horses also love to eat grain, but they also eat hay!

I did not mean to disparage Russian horses. There are fine breeds of horses in Russia. I have read of the use of Russian ponies in WW2, such as the Ob Pony, that would be similar to America Indian ponies, in that they could survive on low-quality forage.

Guy Sajer wrote about them in his book "The Forgotten Solider"

Pony (English pony, from Gallic ponaidh "little horse") is a subspecies of the domestic horse [1]. A characteristic feature is short stature (80-140 cm), powerful neck, short legs, endurance. Ponies include many breeds bred on the islands (British, Iceland, Sicily, Corsica, Gotland, Hokkaido).

In Russia, it is customary to refer to ponies as horses of Shetland, Welsh, Scottish, Icelandic, Falabella, American miniature breeds. The concept of "pony" in Russian hippological literature includes horses with a height at the withers of 100-110 cm and below, although some horses from the above breeds are much higher. Abroad, the growth scale for ponies is different: in Germany, they include horses with a height at the withers up to 120 cm and below, in England - up to 147.3 cm.

I have never heard of Russian pony breeds!

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Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 98

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 8:16:50 PM

M60A3TTS

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Joined: 5/13/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Russian ponies could make do with grazing, seasonal, as a primary source of food. The higher bred German horses needed grains to supplement their grazing.

"Captured cities should be immediate supply depots" ???
A depot is more than just supplies, it is a infrastructure to manage and distribute. A investment of a AP to create the infrastructure seems justifiable.

There are no ponies in Russia! :) Our horses also love to eat grain, but they also eat hay!

Of course there are ponies in Russia! Where do you think the horses came from?

(in reply to malyhin1517)

Post #: 99

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/7/2021 8:32:58 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Russian ponies could make do with grazing, seasonal, as a primary source of food. The higher bred German horses needed grains to supplement their grazing.

"Captured cities should be immediate supply depots" ???
A depot is more than just supplies, it is a infrastructure to manage and distribute. A investment of a AP to create the infrastructure seems justifiable.

There are no ponies in Russia! :) Our horses also love to eat grain, but they also eat hay!

Of course there are ponies in Russia! Where do you think the horses came from?

I'm still enjoying that someone else on the forum can speak G�idhlig ...

< Message edited by loki100 -- 4/7/2021 8:33:26 PM >

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Post #: 100

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 9:55:44 AM

sven6345789

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline

Question

In WitW you can capture enemy depots and take them over ( at least in the torch scenario ). you also get some supplies of course

I WitE 2 you do not get the depots, only supply. You need to build new depots yourself ( which, thanks to the new AI feature, is easy)

Why the change? Was it a "technical decision" since the code had changed or was it a "Historical" decision done to resemble some of the differences regarding the different theaters?

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Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

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Post #: 101

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 9:57:49 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

Question

In WitW you can capture enemy depots and take them over ( at least in the torch scenario ). you also get some supplies of course

I WitE 2 you do not get the depots, only supply. You need to build new depots yourself ( which, thanks to the new AI feature, is easy)

Why the change? Was it a "technical decision" since the code had changed or was it a "Historical" decision done to resemble some of the differences regarding the different theaters?

its not quite that. In Torch pretty much every depot is also a port, when you take a port a depot is auto-created (& this is the same in both W and E2). So if you take say Leipaja, you get a depot but clearly most depots in WiTE2 are land based and not auto-replaced.

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Post #: 102

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 10:36:05 AM

sven6345789

Posts: 1050
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From: Sandviken, Sweden
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yeah, that explains it :)

played Torch and Sicily, and yes, there just about every city is a port.

Thanks.

One question regarding depot priority levels.

right now, i have the following system ( for both WitW and WitE 2)

0: depots that i no longer need and want to empty and eventually disband ( or places of no importance to the east like Hamburg)

1: depots in backwater areas which i want to keep anyway

2: export ports and national supply source

3: depots no longer behind the frontline but still of importance and import ports

4: frontline depots.

I build depots about every 4-6 hexes along rail lines.

not sure about the export ports and national supply source. They could do with a 1 priority, meaning some import ports can go down to level 2. what is better?

Does that sound like an acceptable system?

_____________________________

Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

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Post #: 103

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 11:11:33 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

yeah, that explains it :)

played Torch and Sicily, and yes, there just about every city is a port.

Thanks.

One question regarding depot priority levels.

right now, i have the following system ( for both WitW and WitE 2)

0: depots that i no longer need and want to empty and eventually disband ( or places of no importance to the east like Hamburg)

1: depots in backwater areas which i want to keep anyway

2: export ports and national supply source

3: depots no longer behind the frontline but still of importance and import ports

4: frontline depots.

I build depots about every 4-6 hexes along rail lines.

not sure about the export ports and national supply source. They could do with a 1 priority, meaning some import ports can go down to level 2. what is better?

Does that sound like an acceptable system?

I'd make some changes:

In the main as the axis don't disband depots, priority 0 removes them from the system and you may need them in 1944-45.

NSS can be at 0, should be at 0 as their main role is to send out freight and that optimises that function

export ports can usually be at 1, there is a part of the logistics phase where ports claim before railyards, so as long as they are near to the NSS (so eg the German Baltic ports), then that is all they need - in turn you can set the import ports to 2/3 and they can still send on to level 4 railyards

So that mostly leaves you priority 2/3/4 to fill out the system as needed. With the Germans in 1941 quite often I'll put a depot in pretty much every captured and connected rail yard - Carlkay has a nice analysis of why this works, especially come the autumn weather.

Soviet logic come 1943+ is a bit different, you need belts of depots reaching back 10-15 hexes, with usually those around 8 hexes back performing the bulk of the supply work

Use 4 where you are reasonably sure you can gain the freight or to double-team say with a super depot (an instance where you probably need that level of demand to use up the created capacity)

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Post #: 104

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 11:51:32 AM

ast95

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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517
I have never heard of Russian pony breeds!

That's pure terminology, in UK every horse breed under 150cm is "pony", we commonly call "pony" only midget-horses. By UK standard Mongolian breed, heavily used in RKKA, counts as "pony".

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Post #: 105

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 4:23:34 PM

malyhin1517

Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Russian ponies could make do with grazing, seasonal, as a primary source of food. The higher bred German horses needed grains to supplement their grazing.

"Captured cities should be immediate supply depots" ???
A depot is more than just supplies, it is a infrastructure to manage and distribute. A investment of a AP to create the infrastructure seems justifiable.

There are no ponies in Russia! :) Our horses also love to eat grain, but they also eat hay!

Of course there are ponies in Russia! Where do you think the horses came from?

These are not ponies, but foals! :)

_____________________________

Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 106

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 4:49:23 PM

Dreamslayer

Posts: 452
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From: St.Petersburg
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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517
These are not ponies, but foals! :)

Ponies, foals ... omg. What about camels in USSR?

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Post #: 107

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 4:53:02 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517
These are not ponies, but foals! :)

Ponies, foals ... omg. What about camels in USSR?

pah, everyone has camels, its reindeer that make an airforce different

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Post #: 108

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 5:38:56 PM

MakeeLearn

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And man's best friend...

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RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 5:43:50 PM

RedLancer

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The game must be truly broken without horses (and now I learn) camels and reindeer modelled. Why can't we have them converted to supplies when isolated? How many meals can you get from a camel? I'm sure Hanny knows!

We have to question what we been doing as a dev team for the last few years?

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 110

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 5:43:56 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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but thats not a cat ...

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Post #: 111

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 5:48:07 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

but thats not a cat ...

It's a Siberian Tiger.... also called Dinner.

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Post #: 112

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 7:43:44 PM

malyhin1517

Posts: 1426
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From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517
These are not ponies, but foals! :)

Ponies, foals ... omg. What about camels in USSR?

We have many different animals! But don't pony! :) Reindeer were widely used in the North during the war. Camels were used in the south.

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Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 113

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 8:22:03 PM

M60A3TTS

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Still waiting on a war elephant pic...

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Post #: 114

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 8:37:26 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Still waiting on a war elephant pic...

would a hippo be an acceptable substitute - apparently it survived the fighting around Berlin zoo in May 45;

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Post #: 115

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 8:40:55 PM

carlkay58

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It sounds like Knautshke made love not war!

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RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 8:51:58 PM

Dreamslayer

Posts: 452
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From: St.Petersburg
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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517
Camels were used in the south.

I don't know but the note for that photo with camels said that it was in Stalingrad area.

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Post #: 117

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/8/2021 8:55:10 PM

malyhin1517

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From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517
Camels were used in the south.

I don't know but the note for that photo with camels said that it was in Stalingrad area.

So Stalingrad is in the south! There are just camels!

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Post #: 118

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/9/2021 4:29:43 AM

MaB1708

Posts: 336
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

The game must be truly broken without horses (and now I learn) camels and reindeer modelled. Why can't we have them converted to supplies when isolated? How many meals can you get from a camel? I'm sure Hanny knows!

We have to question what we been doing as a dev team for the last few years?

Yes, broken :-)
At least I would have expected some (european!) swallows. And finally an answer to "What is the average air speed velocity of a laden swallow?".

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 119

RE: Captured cities should be immediate supply depots - 4/9/2021 1:48:46 PM

squatter

Posts: 1033
Joined: 6/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

The game must be truly broken without horses (and now I learn) camels and reindeer modelled. Why can't we have them converted to supplies when isolated? How many meals can you get from a camel? I'm sure Hanny knows!

We have to question what we been doing as a dev team for the last few years?