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Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wait, or just leave?

 
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Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wait, ... - 4/7/2021 6:44:13 AM   
gf85

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/24/2018
Status: offline 		Sorry for the novice question I am new to this series.

After struggling for 20 hours learning the basic and with a few restarts, I finally pull out an okay-ly satisfied T1.
But soon I have problems in determining the phase of advancement.
It's just T4 now but many spearhead units are already suffering overextension, very low on CPP and supplies level.
And other problems are the pocketed soviet troops, I can't make my mind should I mop them up asap and keep advance, or should I wait for a few turns to soften them up, or just leave a few troops to keep an eye on them and keep pushing.

Moping them up requires lots of troop being held back for turns and many of pocketed enemies are still hard nuts to crack.
Waiting for them to soften up require even more time.
Leave them alone with a few troops behind seems good but I am afraid they will just wandering around stealing my depot and jeopardize the logistic of advancing troops.

The sudden death bar makes me nervous... I have played some smaller scale hex and counter wargame. Most of these game encourages players to advance swift and fast. Especially when you are playing Germany on the Eastern front, the historical capture day does make me worry if I am lagging behine...

Should I let my troops rest for 1 or 2 turns in the rear or should I push them to limit before the mudding season and winter?...

Any advice is appreciated

< Message edited by gf85 -- 4/7/2021 6:45:31 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 7:03:52 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		aye, dealing with bypassed pockets is a game in itself

sticking to the opening turns for the moment. You'll find that collection of Soviet formations variable, the cavalry are often hard to deal with, the others vary according to the T1 set up routines.

Isolation penalties start to kick in from T2 but if there is supply in the pocket (& there probably is), it can be a few turns before they start to really weaken.

In the main on T2 you should be able to take out formations in clear terrain and anything that appears <1 CV when you look at the battle odds. T3 should get you the rest but if it is in poor terrain be prepared to attack in force.

You don't want them roaming around, cutting a key rail link can reall make a mess of your advance.

The second major sub-game is how far/how fast.

The problem is every time you stop hitting the Red Army the damn thing grows but you can't hit it every turn.

Some suggestions:

a) once the border battles are over, let the units that dealt with the pocket rest a couple of turns till they have CPP up around 50
b) keep an eye on CPP, its not just a combat boost, it can work to improve your MP too
c) get used to rotating your Pzr corps, unless you feel you have no choice, try to leave one static each turn - they will gain around 50 CPP and shed a lot of fatigue - for each Pzr Group
d) read the rules on admin movement and CPP retention/regain - that will make a huge difference to the state of your infantry as they arrive at the front say T4-7
e) don't forget your logistics, think about where the core depots are and stack them up to optimise their performance. A well functioning depot slightly to the rear is of more use than having the rail way repaired and a few small depots immediately behind the front line

and have fun

_____________________________


(in reply to gf85)
Post #: 2
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 7:25:57 AM   
gf85

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 5/24/2018
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

aye, dealing with bypassed pockets is a game in itself

sticking to the opening turns for the moment. You'll find that collection of Soviet formations variable, the cavalry are often hard to deal with, the others vary according to the T1 set up routines.

Isolation penalties start to kick in from T2 but if there is supply in the pocket (& there probably is), it can be a few turns before they start to really weaken.

In the main on T2 you should be able to take out formations in clear terrain and anything that appears <1 CV when you look at the battle odds. T3 should get you the rest but if it is in poor terrain be prepared to attack in force.

You don't want them roaming around, cutting a key rail link can reall make a mess of your advance.

The second major sub-game is how far/how fast.

The problem is every time you stop hitting the Red Army the damn thing grows but you can't hit it every turn.

Some suggestions:

a) once the border battles are over, let the units that dealt with the pocket rest a couple of turns till they have CPP up around 50
b) keep an eye on CPP, its not just a combat boost, it can work to improve your MP too
c) get used to rotating your Pzr corps, unless you feel you have no choice, try to leave one static each turn - they will gain around 50 CPP and shed a lot of fatigue - for each Pzr Group
d) read the rules on admin movement and CPP retention/regain - that will make a huge difference to the state of your infantry as they arrive at the front say T4-7
e) don't forget your logistics, think about where the core depots are and stack them up to optimise their performance. A well functioning depot slightly to the rear is of more use than having the rail way repaired and a few small depots immediately behind the front line

and have fun


Thanks for the detailed guide! Much appreciated, already learnt much from your replies in other forum thread.

The scope of this game is really epic, feel I still have to learn so much but I am enjoying it. I'll try to keep local/strategic reserve and rotate spearhead forces first.

Still letting AI manage my depot... not capable to organise everything yet. Should be my "new objective" now.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 3
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 11:42:59 AM   
con

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 7/9/2012
Status: offline 		How about isolated cities? I was able to encircle Lenningrad cutting it off - Then I put on a strong Naval interdiction in the Gulf of Riga preventing naval resupply. Is it worth waiting to attack or does all the supply the Soviets have already stockpiled in the city not make this worthwhile?

(in reply to gf85)
Post #: 4
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 12:06:04 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		con - Leningrad is an interesting problem in and of itself. However it does not start the game with a huge supply dump and is usually out of supply fairly quickly once the double rail to Moscow is cut. Once it is isolated it will start to suffer supply penalties fairly fast.

(in reply to con)
Post #: 5
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 12:18:10 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Leningrad can get supply over Lake Ladoga, like in real life. So it is decision.

If you can link up with Finns, Leningrad is basically gone for Soviets.

As bonus, you also get a Corps of Finns on map to play with, when Leningrad falls.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 4/7/2021 12:19:20 PM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to carlkay58)
Post #: 6
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 12:30:31 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Finnish forces limited to: 1) Axis Reserves 2) Finland
(note that this restriction does not apply to any Finnish
units released to the map if the Axis player captures
Leningrad, see 40.1 for details).

Unless the Germans capture Leningrad, Finnish units are
limited to the Finland Theatre Box. If Leningrad falls, an
event may occur to allow the German player to move some
Finnish units to the main map. These units can then be
moved freely on the map with no further constraints.

So you COULD get some extra units for going for Leningrad strongly.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 7
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 1:10:26 PM   
Medicusa

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/24/2019
Status: offline 		"one static each turn - they will gain around 50 CPP"
I didnt find anything in the manual for static mode giving CPP bonus. Maybe this doesnt mean static mode but not move?

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 8
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 1:18:29 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Medicusa

"one static each turn - they will gain around 50 CPP"
I didnt find anything in the manual for static mode giving CPP bonus. Maybe this doesnt mean static mode but not move?


no, they get 2 MP and the usual 200 SMP.

How that SMP converts to CPP depends on if they are in an assault formation and if they are in a ZoC.

crudely with the full SMP they gain 8 CPP if in ZoC and 24 out, per turn. Double those values if they are in an assault formation

edit - note that units in City Forts have their own particular rules - +16 CPP per turn (20.6.2)

< Message edited by loki100 -- 4/7/2021 1:19:35 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Medicusa)
Post #: 9
RE: Novice Question: Pocketed enemies - Mop up asap, wa... - 4/7/2021 1:23:33 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Medicusa

"one static each turn - they will gain around 50 CPP"
I didnt find anything in the manual for static mode giving CPP bonus. Maybe this doesnt mean static mode but not move?


In this I think it means "not moving".

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Medicusa)
Post #: 10
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