Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 5:30:38 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline

I've noticed in all my games vs Soviet AI (normal or 110 morale both) that around late July/August they start to throw hundreds of bombers at several of my cities. Usually Konigsberg, Brest Litovsk, and Chernivtsi. They'll end up losing like 500-1000 aircraft a turn. Usually it peters out after a few turns but they typically end up losing like 2K aircraft total from these raids. Is this WAD?

I'll admit my knowledge of VVS is somewhat lacking, and I know they sent some raids to Berlin in 41/42, but these long range suicide runs seem a little extreme. Even though they lost all 200 bombers against Brest Litovsk they did manage to damage some of the railyards. I guess it's maybe not a terrible strategy but wasn't sure if this was normal/a good strategy they are emplying/I don't know my history or if the AI is going haywire. I've never played Soviets so I'm unclear on their best moves.

I can share screenshots later but just wanted to get the post out there. I'll note I haven't done anything weird like removing my fighter cover, and the fronts are pretty historical.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/8/2021 5:32:46 PM >

_____________________________

Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee

Post #: 1

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 5:56:54 PM

SwedenJens

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/18/2012
Status: offline

I can confirm this happened to me too when ending t6. I'm Also playing on Challenging difficulty. AI lost 1,400 aircraft in its air phase.

< Message edited by SwedenJens -- 4/8/2021 5:57:09 PM >

(in reply to Bamilus)

Post #: 2

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 6:47:08 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

I'm mention this to Gary. He does use the Long Range Air Command to bomb railyards. Maybe he's going too deep, but it's probably by design.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Bamilus)

Post #: 3

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 6:49:17 PM

Jajusha

Posts: 249
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline

If memory serves, Soviets did bomb Berlin and other towns, but never going even near to those kind of loses

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 4

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 7:04:29 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jajusha

If memory serves, Soviets did bomb Berlin and other towns, but never going even near to those kind of loses

Yep, I mentioned this in my post. But those were mainly show raids and no strategic bombing force in 1941 (or even 1942 for that matter) was able to do serious damage from bombing, let alone with the small numbers the Soviets used.

And to Joel: I don't mind if they do it, I just didn't know if this would have negative ramifications on them long term. If Gary feels like the Soviet AI can withstand the losses then it's totally cool, but if the AI is gimping itself to do 40% damage to one of my railyards then I think it should probably be toned back a bit. I have no issue with it: "OMG ITS NOT TOTALLY HISTORICAL",I'm just thinking from an AI perspective.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/8/2021 7:07:04 PM >

_____________________________

Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee

(in reply to Jajusha)

Post #: 5

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 7:43:30 PM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

While never reaching British or American levels, the Soviets did become somewhat adept at both daylight and night bombing. They had some success against railyards and other targets.
Helsinki in particular was hard hit on several nights. Budapest and K�nigsberg were also hard hit.
The PE-8 was a pretty mediocre heavy bomber, but the Pe-2 and Tu-2 were outstanding light/medium bombers and ground attack craft that also found recon and night fighter roles.
Finally, the PE-8 was capable of dropping some heavy bombs. The Soviets did develop the FAB-5000 which was a 5000 KG bomb and did drop a number of them.

_____________________________

(in reply to Bamilus)

Post #: 6

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 7:45:03 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

While never reaching British or American levels, the Soviets did become somewhat adept at both daylight and night bombing. They had some success against railyards and other targets.
Helsinki in particular was hard hit on several nights. Budapest and K�nigsberg were also hard hit.
The PE-8 was a pretty mediocre heavy bomber, but the Pe-2 and Tu-2 were outstanding light/medium bombers and ground attack craft that also found recon and night fighter roles.
Finally, the PE-8 was capable of dropping some heavy bombs. The Soviets did develop the FAB-5000 which was a 5000 KG bomb and did drop a number of them.

I'm not disputing that, but losing 2-3k bombers in July/August 1941 on suicide strategic bombing runs was not something the Soviets were doing, nor was a widespread strategic campaign at that point in the war. Any strategic bombing the Soviets did in 1941 was mainly for show, with raids usually being 30 or less aircraft. Later years? Yea, you're correct they ramped up.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/8/2021 7:47:01 PM >

_____________________________

Paradox Interactive Forum Refugee

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 7

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 8:09:50 PM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

While never reaching British or American levels, the Soviets did become somewhat adept at both daylight and night bombing. They had some success against railyards and other targets.
Helsinki in particular was hard hit on several nights. Budapest and K�nigsberg were also hard hit.
The PE-8 was a pretty mediocre heavy bomber, but the Pe-2 and Tu-2 were outstanding light/medium bombers and ground attack craft that also found recon and night fighter roles.
Finally, the PE-8 was capable of dropping some heavy bombs. The Soviets did develop the FAB-5000 which was a 5000 KG bomb and did drop a number of them.

I'm not disputing that, but losing 2-3k bombers in July/August 1941 on suicide strategic bombing runs was not something the Soviets were doing, nor was a widespread strategic campaign at that point in the war. Any strategic bombing the Soviets did in 1941 was mainly for show, with raids usually being 30 or less aircraft. Later years? Yea, you're correct they ramped up.

Oh, I was by no means trying to support the kind of raids in your first post.

Just giving some historical context that the Soviets did engage in some limited forms of strategic bombing behind the front lines.

_____________________________

(in reply to Bamilus)

Post #: 8

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 8:44:47 PM

Dreamslayer

Posts: 452
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline

There is the article by aviation historian Mikhail Timin about actions of Soviet Long Range Bomber Aviation during first days of the war (in Russian):
"Failed retribution. Long-range bomber aviation." / " Несостоявшееся возмездие. Дальняя бомбардировочная авиация" - https://warspot.ru/2573-nesostoyavsheesya-vozmezdie-dalnyaya-bombardirovochnaya-aviatsiya.
He has others amazing atricles too and also many videos on Youtube about Eastern Front and WWII.

_____________________________

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 9

RE: Soviet AI Early War Bombing German Factories - 4/8/2021 10:26:02 PM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

While never reaching British or American levels, the Soviets did become somewhat adept at both daylight and night bombing. They had some success against railyards and other targets.
Helsinki in particular was hard hit on several nights. Budapest and K�nigsberg were also hard hit.
The PE-8 was a pretty mediocre heavy bomber, but the Pe-2 and Tu-2 were outstanding light/medium bombers and ground attack craft that also found recon and night fighter roles.
Finally, the PE-8 was capable of dropping some heavy bombs. The Soviets did develop the FAB-5000 which was a 5000 KG bomb and did drop a number of them.

Actually Helsinki suffered relatively low damage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Helsinki_in_World_War_II

The Finns deceived Soviet pathfinders by lighting fires on the islands outside the city, and only using the searchlights east of the city, thereby leading the pathfinders to believe that it was the city. Only 530 bombs fell within the city itself. The majority of the population of Helsinki had left the city, and the casualties were low compared to other cities bombed during the war.
.....
While Helsinki and many other European cities endured bombing raids throughout the Second World War, the Finnish capital fared better than many of them thanks to the efficiency of its anti-aircraft and deception measures. Only 5% of the bombs fell within the city, and some of these fell in uninhabited park areas causing little damage. Some 2,000 bombers participated in the three great raids on the city and dropped some 2,600 tons of bombs. Of the 146 who died, six were soldiers; 356 were wounded. 109 buildings were destroyed. 300 were damaged by shrapnel and 111 were set on fire. The Soviet Air Force lost 25 aircraft. The Soviet embassy on the corner of Bulevarden and Albertsgatan was hit by bombs and burnt down completely.[6]

It was Tallinn that was hit very hard.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-