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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything?

 
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RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 7:38:55 AM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		A learning point.

This is a game. Just imagine what it must have been in real life -- with no automation, computers or spreadsheets to help out.

War operation are more complex than most civilians will ever understand. In modern times, it explains why there are still occasional SNAFU's. However, the media will play up a mistake as if everyone involved is a incompetent boob.

Regards,
Feltan

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(in reply to Roger Neilson II)
Post #: 31
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 3:13:16 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		For what it's worth, I've played UV, WiTP and now AE. My approach has been similar in all three systems.

Like other posters have said, I try to do a geographic systematic search. When playing the allies, start with the West Coast of CONUS-look at new arrivals, base forces, available supply, prepare for movement of LCUs, TFs, etc. I'm having to force myself to look at 'off-map' ports now too...my WiTP methods need updating!

Then I'll migrate to Hawaii and the Central Pacific islands. Go to SW Pacific including NZ and Oz, New Guinea, work up into the DEI, PI, China and, last, India / Burma.

For those islands or bases that are only peripherally involved in my planning (e.g., Nome, Alaska), I'll usually only scan those in a cursory fashion once every couple weeks or so. Once you get your system down, it's not too bad-you can punch out an uneventful turn in 30 minutes or so as an allied player.

When some particularly important battle or event is in progress, I'll come back to that after doing my 'theater sweep' and spend a good deal of time on units involved in that event. For example, after a surface combat TF has broken off, I'll make sure to check all ships' ammo, damage, split off any wounded in escort TFs, etc.

(in reply to slybelle)
Post #: 32
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 4:05:56 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feltan

A learning point.

This is a game. Just imagine what it must have been in real life -- with no automation, computers or spreadsheets to help out.

War operation are more complex than most civilians will ever understand. In modern times, it explains why there are still occasional SNAFU's. However, the media will play up a mistake as if everyone involved is a incompetent boob.

Regards,
Feltan


Maybe. But having done a similar job on a modern Wing staff , I can tell you , they had lots of people reading and anaylzing reports, photo's and maps. Lots of people pushing pins around a giant map , and in the USN at least , all kinds of people trained to write backwards on a big plexiglass board. There's your computer assist , for those who don't have 120 or so "helpers".

(in reply to Feltan)
Post #: 33
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 4:27:50 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feltan

A learning point.

This is a game. Just imagine what it must have been in real life -- with no automation, computers or spreadsheets to help out.

War operation are more complex than most civilians will ever understand. In modern times, it explains why there are still occasional SNAFU's. However, the media will play up a mistake as if everyone involved is a incompetent boob.

Regards,
Feltan


Maybe. But having done a similar job on a modern Wing staff , I can tell you , they had lots of people reading and anaylzing reports, photo's and maps. Lots of people pushing pins around a giant map , and in the USN at least , all kinds of people trained to write backwards on a big plexiglass board. There's your computer assist , for those who don't have 120 or so "helpers".



My mother was one of those human search engines for Army Intelligence during the war. She describes a typical task as "Here's a stack of assorted intelligence reports. Read through all of these to see if there is any mention of the subject I am interested in. Set those aside and bring them to me."

During her +1 year she got to stick pins on a big map of China to keep track of the Chinese civil war. She describes getting simultaneous reports that unit A is at location B and another one that it is at location C. The real fog of war during WWII was much worse than anything we face in the game.


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(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 34
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 8/7/2009 6:18:59 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

slybelle, I'd stick with AE. Start the Coral Sea Scenario or the Guadalcanal Campaign. There's UV right there. Plus, it's been drastically updated since the days of only UV.


Seconded.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 35
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 4/9/2021 9:49:57 PM   
TexasThunder

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		I am looking at this and want to do it but it seems overwhelming! Is another game that helps us get to know how to do or or just nut up and shut up and play?

LOL

Any help would be cool...

Avid gamer but not to this level...I fly F14s and F16s in DCS

Thanks

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)
Post #: 36
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 4/9/2021 10:11:14 PM   
rsallen64


Posts: 172
Joined: 6/15/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		TexasThunder - I felt the same way the first time I started a Grand Campaign: overwhelmed at first. I always wanted a massive Pacific War game that covered everything, then thought I wish I hadn't gotten what I wished for! The game sat dormant for years until I gave it a go. But I read the manual and the forums over and over, and eventually started. I made many mistakes at first but was not as overwhelmed as I thought I would be because I just took my time. Even now it takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to plan a turn because I tend to be a little OCD and check everything to make sure I haven't missed anything.

As others have said, develop a system that works for you. I use Tracker to tell my what new arrivals have come in that turn (ships, LCUs and air groups) and I usually start with them. I then start with a geographical turn through the map. I usually start in Abadan, Aden and Cape Town, work my way through India and Burma, down through Oz, etc., and finish on the West Coast (playing as Allies, that is). I hit all the bases, check the air groups, ships, convoys, LCUs, etc. It takes time but is not overwhelming, I don't take a lot of notes, unless I am moving units by sea for bases, invasions, etc. Everyone has their own style.

Once you plot your first turn in the Grand Campaign (if it's your first time, and you're playing as Allies against the AI, which I recommend, use Kull's excellent setup spreadsheet available in the forums), save that first turn somewhere safe. If you make too many mistakes, just reload and start over again. Once you play through, you'll get the hang of it. Like anything challenging, practice makes perfect, or at least better, because there is no reaching perfection in this game.

You WILL make mistakes. Just remember that even the real life counterparts did so, after years of specialized training and decades of practical on the job experience. But they didn't have the benefit of reloading and starting again. If, after all their experience and training, mistakes were made, you're allowed a few as well.

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(in reply to TexasThunder)
Post #: 37
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 4/9/2021 10:17:00 PM   
TexasThunder

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		Awesome! So I looked and will need to DLOAD tracker....

I am usually into the FLYING sims want to do this...

I am also getting Task Force Admiral once that is out as well..... A microprose game

Yes Microprose...Go figure....I do play Afghanistan 11


(in reply to rsallen64)
Post #: 38
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 4/10/2021 12:38:01 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		Holy batman necro!
But some things never change.
And GC scale is one of them.

(in reply to TexasThunder)
Post #: 39
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 4/10/2021 3:52:45 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		As Allies, you don't have to get everything right first day.

As Japan, it's even more complicated, since they do need a good Dec 7, 1941...

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 40
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/5/2021 4:10:25 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline 		For what it’s worth the first couple of times I played the full campaign I decided that I would play for a certain number of months, going pretty fast, in order to get an idea of how the game played. I then settled in. I am currently in early ‘45 playing as Japan and it has taken me longer than the war lasted !


_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 41
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/5/2021 11:45:02 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Why are people such worry warts?

You don't NEED to do everything every turn.

That's the beauty of one day turns in game that runs for well over a thousand days.

All of us suffer form "remembering something three turns later that I meant to do".

When these episodes occur, I chalk it up to orders SNAFUs.

They occurred in the real war with thousands of people responsible for making sure they didn't.





_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 42
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/5/2021 11:51:49 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Why are people such worry warts?

You don't NEED to do everything every turn.

That's the beauty of one day turns in game that runs for well over a thousand days.

All of us suffer form "remembering something three turns later that I meant to do".

When these episodes occur, I chalk it up to orders SNAFUs.

They occurred in the real war with thousands of people responsible for making sure they didn't.





I couldn't agree more....GP

< Message edited by btd64 -- 5/5/2021 11:52:48 AM >

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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 43
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/5/2021 3:27:05 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		The Coral Sea & Gcanal help a lot. I dove right into the GC and got lucky but there is SO much too learn. UV won't help.

(in reply to Roger Neilson II)
Post #: 44
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/5/2021 5:57:31 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

For what it’s worth the first couple of times I played the full campaign I decided that I would play for a certain number of months, going pretty fast, in order to get an idea of how the game played. I then settled in. I am currently in early ‘45 playing as Japan and it has taken me longer than the war lasted !



Hi Stu! Long time, Brother! Hope you and yours are well!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 45
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/6/2021 8:04:18 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline 		Hello ! I have been silently lurking as I usually do. Not playing as much as I would like because of this and that. I hope you are well.

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 46
RE: Mind Boggling - How do you know you did everything? - 5/6/2021 12:12:35 PM   
mattj78


Posts: 37
Joined: 4/19/2020
Status: offline 		every couple of turns i always forget one thing or another tracker is a good tool to help that

(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 47
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