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Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning Page: [1]
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Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning


Yes - include as is.
  44% (32)
Yes - but just the triangle (I've read the manual!).
  30% (22)
No - but do post in the modding area.
  25% (18)


Total Votes : 72
(last vote on : 4/20/2021 8:30:39 PM)
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Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 7:03:51 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		One of the huge advantages with a tile based map is we can quickly make improvements and amendments.

The screenshot shows some added info that loki100 and I thought you may appreciate to warn Axis players of how far they can go on GC41 T1 without activating the Soviet Southern Front.

It may not be for all so please vote on whether you like it and we do add it to a future release.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RedLancer -- 4/10/2021 7:04:46 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 7:51:27 PM   
King-Salomon

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 3/5/2021
Status: offline 		would it be possible to make it so that the tiles convert back to how they are now after T1?

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 2
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 8:11:37 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		No - most data embeds at the very start of a scenario so later data changes aren't possible. You could rename/delete the triangle art which would stop it appearing.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to King-Salomon)
Post #: 3
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 8:22:13 PM   
malyhin1517


Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline 		Is it better to make a triangle in the middle of the hex? Then it will be clearer which hex cannot be crossed! In principle, the inscription is not required, but it will be useful for beginners!

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(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 4
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 8:43:38 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline 		Why Southern Front should be frozen ever, what a reason for it? There are actions started already right from 22 June. So why Soviet side can't regroup units for better positioning?
Also, is it possible to redone forming Southern Front HQ? Because Odessa M.D. was reformed to 9th Army HQ and Southern Front HQ it was formed in Moscow and moved via the railroad to the area to Vinnitsa.

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Post #: 5
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 10:52:01 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Why Southern Front should be frozen ever, what a reason for it? There are actions started already right from 22 June. So why Soviet side can't regroup units for better positioning?
Also, is it possible to redone forming Southern Front HQ? Because Odessa M.D. was reformed to 9th Army HQ and Southern Front HQ it was formed in Moscow and moved via the railroad to the area to Vinnitsa.


Probably for balancing reasons and also to represent catching Soviets off-guard. The T1 is now longer than it was in WITE.

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Post #: 6
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/10/2021 11:43:01 PM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

Is it better to make a triangle in the middle of the hex? Then it will be clearer which hex cannot be crossed! In principle, the inscription is not required, but it will be useful for beginners!

Excellent. Triangle or is it an arrow pointing to the hex below. Regardless good idea.

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(in reply to malyhin1517)
Post #: 7
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 12:04:15 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		I brought this up during BETA about putting a picture of the affected hexes in the manual, but oh well. But maybe something better can come to fruition ;-)

To me the triangle is just a triangle. Unless you put the page number or rule number with it I bet many will keep on trucking or hit a hex that will release Southern front. Do you know which hexes will or will not release on the border for that rule? Thus to me the triangle really doesn't show which part you should or should not venture into. I did test in BETA to find out which you can and can't. Having that annotated on the map is the best way to do it. You should have slightly highlighted hexes pop up with "ALERT entry releases the Southern Front". Of course something shorter but you get the idea. The same principal that is already in the game if a minor neutral going north can't cross area that darkens for no entry. After the first turn I am sure this can be programmed to turn off. This should give a nice helping hand to all that use it.

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 8
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 2:05:12 AM   
smokindave34


Posts: 877
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 9
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 2:29:28 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?


Correct.

Be careful of the South hexes & half hexes. They alternate. Also Remember a ZoC over that line will trip the effects. At least it did in my test in BETA

(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 10
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 3:06:04 AM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		This is good. Another thing that might be helpful is a demarcation of the north-south boundary for where the "north" special movement bonuses apply/don't apply (somewhere south of Brest-Litovsk). That would probably only be needed as a line for a small amount of the border area (doesn't have to extend all the way to the urals :D ).


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 11
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 3:55:16 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

This is good. Another thing that might be helpful is a demarcation of the north-south boundary for where the "north" special movement bonuses apply/don't apply (somewhere south of Brest-Litovsk). That would probably only be needed as a line for a small amount of the border area (doesn't have to extend all the way to the urals :D ).




Ya, good point!!!!!! That thing kicked my azz in BETA. I didn't read the manual and was all f'd up on what was happening there!

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 12
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 7:55:15 AM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Why Southern Front should be frozen ever, what a reason for it? There are actions started already right from 22 June. So why Soviet side can't regroup units for better positioning?
Also, is it possible to redone forming Southern Front HQ? Because Odessa M.D. was reformed to 9th Army HQ and Southern Front HQ it was formed in Moscow and moved via the railroad to the area to Vinnitsa.


Historically, the Attack from Romania started later than the attack from Poland. The Axis forces in Romania are also frozen turn 1.

If however Army Group South is very successful in its initial attacks Southern Front will activate earlier.

so, balancing reasons.


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(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 13
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 8:38:36 AM   
AlessandroD


Posts: 381
Joined: 12/28/2014
From: Italy
Status: offline 		No for me because it would be a one shot info and no more relevant after T1, a modded map should work for everyone.

I would like to see a clarification in the manual instead, if what HLYA said in the previous post is correct:


quote:

"Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?


Correct.

Be careful of the South hexes & half hexes. They alternate. Also Remember a ZoC over that line will trip the effects. At least it did in my test in BETA"



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Post #: 14
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 9:20:42 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1

This is good. Another thing that might be helpful is a demarcation of the north-south boundary for where the "north" special movement bonuses apply/don't apply (somewhere south of Brest-Litovsk). That would probably only be needed as a line for a small amount of the border area (doesn't have to extend all the way to the urals :D ).




do you mean the image in 11.2.2, that sets out exactly where that border is?






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 15
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 10:13:57 AM   
speedyglides

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2015
Status: offline 		A smaller slightly less salient triangle could be better, as you will look for it when relevant in T1 but it will not be useful for the rest of the game.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 16
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 12:07:33 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		11.2.5. Unlocking the Soviet Southern
Front
If a Soviet national hex south or east of 187,187

Shouldn't that read "South 'and' East"?
As it's written any hex East of 187 will trigger the Southern front.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 17
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 3:51:11 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

do you mean the image in 11.2.2, that sets out exactly where that border is?





Yes, in my case I vaguely remember seeing that in the manual, but when I was later actually playing I didn't remember exactly where the dividing line was. It is quite clear in the manual, but ideally it would be nice to not have to keep looking it up in the manual. IMO something like that line, but extending just a small amount in, with some small text like "T1 Movement Line" could perhaps be helpful as a reminder.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 18
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/11/2021 9:49:36 PM   
mikael333

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 4/10/2021
Status: offline 		I would put this feature behind one of the map options.

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 19
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 2:01:29 AM   
Sigwolfe


Posts: 26
Joined: 11/15/2019
Status: offline 		I would like it if it could disappear after turn 1. If it's going to be there all game it should be much more subtle, and not just reducing it to the triangle. It should be reduced to a partially transparent image, at the least.
I don't think a t1 trigger point should be the most prominent feature on the map.

(in reply to mikael333)
Post #: 20
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 5:30:30 AM   
Hardradi


Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Looks good to me.

(in reply to Sigwolfe)
Post #: 21
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 5:33:52 AM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I'd definitely like to have it on only in some filtered map mode. Maybe capture date filter would be a proper match?

(in reply to Hardradi)
Post #: 22
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 8:12:26 AM   
Rexzapper

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 4/5/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

I'd definitely like to have it on only in some filtered map mode. Maybe capture date filter would be a proper match?


Yes!!!!! That it appears in some filtered map mode (in the "capture date filter", for example) is a very good suggestion ... and also the line of 11.2.2.

(in reply to Nix77)
Post #: 23
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 12:03:01 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
Probably for balancing reasons and also to represent catching Soviets off-guard. The T1 is now longer than it was in WITE.

What do you mean "catching Soviets off-guard" if we talking about Southern Front non on T1? Divisions of 9th Army moved to the border and had time to take defense positions. The main problems there was that they should covers too extended front so density of the defense in this area was insufficient. And second thing was that Southern Front commander Tyulenev overestimated the strength of the enemy and he decided to withdrow to defense position on "old border" there was fort lines.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789
Historically, the Attack from Romania started later than the attack from Poland. The Axis forces in Romania are also frozen turn 1.

Attack from Romania started 22 June, at least "air-phase", we can argue how active was ground part. So Romania and USSR from 22 June was at war.
Now, if we look on the game map we can see how many hexes between Soviet divisions on Prut river, in some areas its up to 7 hexes. I'm not talking about that between Soviet divisions should not be any gap but the current status its too much.

For unknown reasons Soviet divisions in the game can't be breakdown to regiments like Germans, Finnish and now even Romanian divisions has such option. So Soviet units in the game can't be more normally positioned there. And Soviet side forced to wait in this silly position when 11th German Army will start their attack.


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Post #: 24
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 12:53:19 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus
Probably for balancing reasons and also to represent catching Soviets off-guard. The T1 is now longer than it was in WITE.

What do you mean "catching Soviets off-guard" if we talking about Southern Front non on T1? Divisions of 9th Army moved to the border and had time to take defense positions. The main problems there was that they should covers too extended front so density of the defense in this area was insufficient. And second thing was that Southern Front commander Tyulenev overestimated the strength of the enemy and he decided to withdrow to defense position on "old border" there was fort lines.
quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789
Historically, the Attack from Romania started later than the attack from Poland. The Axis forces in Romania are also frozen turn 1.

Attack from Romania started 22 June, at least "air-phase", we can argue how active was ground part. So Romania and USSR from 22 June was at war.
Now, if we look on the game map we can see how many hexes between Soviet divisions on Prut river, in some areas its up to 7 hexes. I'm not talking about that between Soviet divisions should not be any gap but the current status its too much.

For unknown reasons Soviet divisions in the game can't be breakdown to regiments like Germans, Finnish and now even Romanian divisions has such option. So Soviet units in the game can't be more normally positioned there. And Soviet side forced to wait in this silly position when 11th German Army will start their attack.



Not gonna argue with you, man. Like I said, it was for balancing issues to de-Peltonize the game. Judging by your join date you missed the majority of the Pelton saga, so this won't mean much to you, but that's the reason why. There's 0% chance the devs will change this because they don't want a repeat of the cookie cutter AGS openings from WITE1.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/12/2021 12:54:14 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Turn 1 Southern Front Activation Warning - 4/12/2021 1:01:19 PM   
Mehring

 

Posts: 2179
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Just so I make sure I understand the rule.......if you want to keep the Southern Front locked you can't go south AND east of the hex in question? So if I go east of that hex but stay north the Southern front stays locked?

Exactly, I posted this earlier, the manual says it wrong.

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(in reply to smokindave34)
Post #: 26
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