Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

There's a lot of engineers at PH as well as being a large airfield. It's not impossible to launch aircraft. As far as the torpedoes go, historically the Japanese only had enough for one raid AFAIK. Sometimes the PH raids will go without torpedoes. It's a die roll....GP

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

There's a lot of engineers at PH as well as being a large airfield. It's not impossible to launch aircraft. As far as the torpedoes go, historically the Japanese only had enough for one raid AFAIK. Sometimes the PH raids will go without torpedoes. It's a die roll....GP

PH can only be Port attacked with torpedoes on turn 1. Its hardwired in the game. You can attack TFs with torps or just use bombs on the anchored ships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01


So, on another note, how much are Airfield Bombings effective to incapacitate the ability of a Base to fly up their Planes ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01


So, on another note, how much are Airfield Bombings effective to incapacitate the ability of a Base to fly up their Planes ?

I mean, one would imagine that, in order to help an attack, it would help to hit an Airfield and its RUnway so that all the planes there would then be incapacitated to fly when a 2nd Run comes..

Yet, it seems to me, that Bases can still fly their planes regardless of the hits that the Runway may have taken ?

Or is there a "magic" number that, if an Airfield/Runway is hit with, THEN all planes in that Base are effectively Landed and incapacitated to take off?

Otherwise, it would look to me that Bombing Airfield/Runways would be just a waste of Bombs if Airplanes could take off no matter the damage that the Runway has taken...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Well, in scen001, PH has level 10 airfield. Think of it as a base with 10 airfields, and not a base with one huge airfield.

See how many arfields there were in Port Moresby during WW2 (single hex in WITP:AE)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Moresby_Airfield_Complex

How do you knock out seven airfields in a single day?

quote:

However, any airfield with diggers, dozers and supplies is going to be able to fill in the craters at some point and get back into action within days, if not a day.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Well, in scen001, PH has level 10 airfield. Think of it as a base with 10 airfields, and not a base with one huge airfield.

See how many arfields there were in Port Moresby during WW2 (single hex in WITP:AE)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Moresby_Airfield_Complex

How do you knock out seven airfields in a single day?

Well, considering how Airplanes "need" a lengthy runway on order to get sufficient velocity to take off, and considering how level bombs create quite a hole, across which a plane cannot "run through" in order to take off, if even just a few bombs were to hit a runway around half way, or even 1/3 or 3/4 of its length, eve if the rest of the length of the runway was untouched, chances are that the remaining unscated length without holes in it could not be enough for a plane to take off...

Sure, more then 1 runway can be present at a higher level Airfield but, with 102 hits, one would imagine that they would have hit multiple runways of that Airfield, not just one, thus making them unusable...

I mean, considering the big hole that a Bomb can produce, say that 10 hits would be enough to render 1 single runway incapacitated, then 100+ hits should well put out or order some 10 runways, shouldn't they ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01




Well, considering how Airplanes "need" a lengthy runway on order to get sufficient velocity to take off, and considering how level bombs create quite a hole, across which a plane cannot "run through" in order to take off, if even just a few bombs were to hit a runway around half way, or even 1/3 or 3/4 of its length, eve if the rest of the length of the runway was untouched, chances are that the remaining unscated length without holes in it could not be enough for a plane to take off...

Sure, more then 1 runway can be present at a higher level Airfield but, with 102 hits, one would imagine that they would have hit multiple runways of that Airfield, not just one, thus making them unusable...

I mean, considering the big hole that a Bomb can produce, say that 10 hits would be enough to render 1 single runway incapacitated, then 100+ hits should well put out or order some 10 runways, shouldn't they ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Read s.9.4.1 of the manual.

Alfred

quote:

9.4.1 AIRFIELD DAMAGE
Airfields can suffer two types of damage: runway and service (both ranging from 0 to 100
percent). It is easier to damage smaller airfields than larger airfields, but once damaged larger
airfields take longer to repair. Less damage to the runway is required at smaller airfields in
order to prevent aircraft from being able to take off and land than at larger airfields.
Airfield service damage in combination with the availability of aviation support determines
the number of aircraft that can be repaired and may limit the number of planes that may
be operational (ready, not in reserve). Airfield service damage can also impact the morale of
pilots.
Runway damage can limit the air operations at a base. A strike Mission may only be launched
from a base with runway damage less than 20+(Airfield Size *5). Patrol and CAP Missions may
only be launched from bases with runway damage less than 50+(Airfield Size *5).
Damage can also impact the receiving of air replacements and upgrades.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01



Well, that sure makes sense but, too bad that in the game we are only able to run 1 attack every 24 hours (turns last 1 day...) therefore, if the engineers and diggers were to be able to fill the runways holes by the following turn, this would mean that it would never be possible to incapacitate an Airfield with bombing to prevent its Airplanes to take off....

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Read s.9.4.1 of the manual.

Alfred

Thank you.

That Section says :

quote:

9.4.1 AIRFIELD DAMAGE
Airfields can suffer two types of damage: runway and service (both ranging from 0 to 100
percent). It is easier to damage smaller airfields than larger airfields, but once damaged larger
airfields take longer to repair. Less damage to the runway is required at smaller airfields in
order to prevent aircraft from being able to take off and land than at larger airfields.
Airfield service damage in combination with the availability of aviation support determines
the number of aircraft that can be repaired and may limit the number of planes that may
be operational (ready, not in reserve). Airfield service damage can also impact the morale of
pilots.
Runway damage can limit the air operations at a base. A strike Mission may only be launched
from a base with runway damage less than 20+(Airfield Size *5). Patrol and CAP Missions may
only be launched from bases with runway damage less than 50+(Airfield Size *5).
Damage can also impact the receiving of air replacements and upgrades.

Now, since I can only read the Combat Report, not really see the enemy Base to view what damage anything might have, those 102 Runway hits that I read in my combat Report mean a damage to the "Airfield" of 102 % ?

I would think not, as it would make no sense to have anything be reported over 100%...

Therefore, since the Manual says that Patrol and CAP Missions (I assume defensive) can only be launched from bases with runway damage less then 50+ (Airfield Size *5), does this mean, since Pearl Harbour has an Airfield Size 10(7), that my 102 Runway damage to it in the 1st Strike, would have made it NOT possible for any Defensive Plane to take off during my 2nd Attack at the Port on December 8th ?

I mean, if 50+ Hits stop planes on an Airfield Size *5, I need to imagine that 100+ Hits would stop likewise planes on an Airfiels Size *10, wouldn't they ?

If so, I still do not understand why, with a Runway damage of 102 Hits on December 7th, on December 8th I saw US planes taking off in response to my second Air strike on Pearl Harbour Port...

Any ideas ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

However, any airfield with diggers, dozers and supplies is going to be able to fill in the craters at some point and get back into action within days, if not a day.

Well, that sure makes sense but, too bad that in the game we are only able to run 1 attack every 24 hours (turns last 1 day...) therefore, if the engineers and diggers were to be able to fill the runways holes by the following turn, this would mean that it would never be possible to incapacitate an Airfield with bombing to prevent its Airplanes to take off....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The best way to shut down runways is with BB main armament. Repeatedly, so the engineers don't get ahead of it.

The rest is just FOW.

sincerely yours,

...

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The best way to shut down runways is with BB main armament. Repeatedly, so the engineers don't get ahead of it.

The rest is just FOW.

sincerely yours,

...

Are you sure ?

Because, according to :

Manual Section 3.0, Naval Bombardment comes "before" Base Repair/Construction.....

Therefore, if the Base has sufficient engineers, and they are so damn good and fast at fixing Runways, no matter how badly hit that they might be, I do not see how it would ever be possible to put an Airfield "out of Order" for the following Air Combat....

Bottom line is, I get the impression that, as long as there is enough engineers at a Base (how many would be "enough" to replace functionality of even a badly hit Runway/Airport ?), it simply is not possible to stop that Base to put up Airplanes in its defense against an Air Attack to that Base...

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

It just takes continuous attacks for quite a long time. Allied 4-engined bombers coming daily can close airbases almost permanently. Japan just don't have engineering capacity to repair faster than e.g. 50+ B-17/B-24 etc. can deliver damage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

The best way to shut down runways is with BB main armament. Repeatedly, so the engineers don't get ahead of it.

The rest is just FOW.

sincerely yours,

...

quote:

Are you sure ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

It just takes continuous attacks for quite a long time. Allied 4-engined bombers coming daily can close airbases almost permanently. Japan just don't have engineering capacity to repair faster than e.g. 50+ B-17/B-24 etc. can deliver damage.

I think most historians would agree that the Allies overwhelmingly won the air campaign over the famous Japanese air complex at Rabaul. Even so, this required constant air strikes against the fortress to negate it as an airbase. Total Japanese losses were something in the neighborhood of 359 aircraft from November 1943 to March 1944. For the group Aircraft-Solomon Islands at Bougainville (AIRSOLS) combat losses were 136 aircraft. Thereafter AIRSOLS continued to stage raids over the fortress, gradually destroying the antiaircraft gun positions and keeping the runways cratered. However, in spite of AIRSOLS' best efforts, the Japanese preserved over half their antiaircraft guns by moving them frequently among prepared positions dug into the ground, and at least one concrete runway was kept usable at all times.

Smaller airfields are usually not such a tough nut to crack.

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

Pavel01:
From one (relatively) new player to another - You really need to:
1). Check your expectations baggage at the WITP:AE "door". Tactical thinking and logic breakdowns in a Grand Strategic game rarely pan out like you think they should.
2). Remind yourself every time you sit down and start up the game that you are Admiral Nimitz (more or less). You have VERY little control over outcomes once the hounds of war are released. Which, I should add, is the way it SHOULD BE.
3). Learn to accept that even with AE being the "2nd Edition", the Devs still had to make many decisions as to how detailed and accurate the game could be. Compromises were made. Some things were never finished and never will be.
4). Yes, it stinks, but realize that with all the warts it has, WITP:AE is still by far the best simulation of the Pacific War available.
5). While there are a lot of things in AE I would like to see added or completed, there is no other competition at this level of detail and immersion.

I find it a very rewarding game that requires a hefty sacrifice in time and mindset in order to appreciate fully. You can get there too, just don't let your preconceived notions ruin it for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

Pavel01:
From one (relatively) new player to another - You really need to:
1). Check your expectations baggage at the WITP:AE "door". Tactical thinking and logic breakdowns in a Grand Strategic game rarely pan out like you think they should.
2). Remind yourself every time you sit down and start up the game that you are Admiral Nimitz (more or less). You have VERY little control over outcomes once the hounds of war are released. Which, I should add, is the way it SHOULD BE.
3). Learn to accept that even with AE being the "2nd Edition", the Devs still had to make many decisions as to how detailed and accurate the game could be. Compromises were made. Some things were never finished and never will be.
4). Yes, it stinks, but realize that with all the warts it has, WITP:AE is still by far the best simulation of the Pacific War available.
5). While there are a lot of things in AE I would like to see added or completed, there is no other competition at this level of detail and immersion.

I find it a very rewarding game that requires a hefty sacrifice in time and mindset in order to appreciate fully. You can get there too, just don't let your preconceived notions ruin it for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pavel01

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

Pavel01:
From one (relatively) new player to another - You really need to:
1). Check your expectations baggage at the WITP:AE "door". Tactical thinking and logic breakdowns in a Grand Strategic game rarely pan out like you think they should.
2). Remind yourself every time you sit down and start up the game that you are Admiral Nimitz (more or less). You have VERY little control over outcomes once the hounds of war are released. Which, I should add, is the way it SHOULD BE.
3). Learn to accept that even with AE being the "2nd Edition", the Devs still had to make many decisions as to how detailed and accurate the game could be. Compromises were made. Some things were never finished and never will be.
4). Yes, it stinks, but realize that with all the warts it has, WITP:AE is still by far the best simulation of the Pacific War available.
5). While there are a lot of things in AE I would like to see added or completed, there is no other competition at this level of detail and immersion.

I find it a very rewarding game that requires a hefty sacrifice in time and mindset in order to appreciate fully. You can get there too, just don't let your preconceived notions ruin it for you.

Thank you for the good advice.

Indeed, it is not an easy task when having to look at the "Grand" picture and not at single battles...

And because of that, I think that the incapacitating of the US fleet in Pearl Harbour as much as possible is quite important for Japanese chances to do well in the War....

Clearly, the main priority of the Japanese is that to capture more Resources and Oil sources as possible so as to strengthen their industry and production.... and crippling the US fleet as much as possible, would therefore buy them time to reach such a goal in Asia....

The US fleet in Hawaii, if not sufficiently damaged, could quite seriously cause problems to the Japanese expansion plans in Asia....

That is why I was trying to keep bombing Pearl Harbour also on the 8th, to make sure to damage as much as possible of the US fleet so that I could have had more time to handle the expansion in Asia....