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Confusion - 4/14/2021 7:19:22 PM

daj

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I have played War in Europe against the computer using an earlier version. I enjoyed games as both Axis and Allies. I recently downloaded the latest version and completed one game as Allies at veteran setting but lowered experience bonus to + .5 and MMP to+ 5%. I am currently Axis at the same bonus settings and have reached March 1942. While I invaded USSR early (April 1941) and took Moscow in January I have become bogged down against numerous USSR units. Given the cheap price of replacing destroyed USSR units, I was not surprised in the number but was surprised that both armies and tanks had achieved level 2. I save each turn so tried to see the timeline on how to achieve both unit numbers and advanced levels. I certainly had difficulty doing this with USSR when I played Allies. Checking the graphs on March 24, 1941 (I invaded next turn) USSR earned 1446 MMPs and spent 614 on units and 1375 on research?? My confusion began. Checking USA on same date: earned MMPs = 2414, spent on units = 1297, spent on research = 2825. I am now totally confused as it appears that the AI is spending far more MMP�s than earned.
After that I checked my current game with fog of war off and saw massive buildup of USSR units. It even included full price expensive units: tanks, headquarters, fighters, and tactical bombers. All along USSR was reinforcing existing units that were depleted in battle. Again, I went back to previous turns to see how USSR could buy so many units. What I found was that some units apparently weren�t purchased but just show up after never appearing in the production schedule. By March 1942 USSR had 2 headquarters (one was Zhukov), 3 fighters, 1 tactical bomber (and maybe other units that I don�t want to try to figure out) that never showed up on the production schedule. This was not just USSR as a check of USA in March 1941 shows a carrier, battleship, light cruiser, and destroyer that, again, were never on the production schedule.
When I played Allies I never received any of these units and could only spend the earned MMP�s. So I am confused. Is this normal? Does AI give bonus MMP spending and free units to the computer side as a normal game protocol?

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RE: Confusion - 4/14/2021 9:11:04 PM

The Land

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So there are some units that appear by event in every game - the US receives a navy when it mobilises. Zhukov appears when the Russia Transfers Forces from Far East event triggers. You should get all these when playing as Allies.

There are a bunch MORE free units that the AI gets defined by the difficulty level. If you play on hard difficulty levels then the AI gets many additional units. This is entirely because the AI can't cope with competent human players. Unlike the MPP and veterancy ratings these are not obviously configurable (I think you can if you go into the details of selecting which scripts run for your game, but that is hidden out of the way a bit.

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RE: Confusion - 4/14/2021 9:50:08 PM

daj

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Thank you for your reply.

The units that appear in my game are not event-based. Zhukov headquarters appears September 2 (a fighter appears the same date) and another headquarters appears October 16, both well before arrival of units from Siberia. The Siberian arrival does have the full 2 headquarters so the new ones are additional. Same for the USA naval units. The USA naval units I see appear February 10, 1941, well before USA enters the war. When US does declare war they receive the full complement of naval units. So at that time USA will have 2 carriers and 1 additional battleship, light cruiser, and destroyer.

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 7:21:24 AM

The Land

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These then will be the AI helper units that it gets from being set to Veteran difficulty.

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 10:53:17 AM

daj

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Thank you again for the response.
So "Some
scripted events will also only occur at the higher
difficulty levels, as a way of providing a greater
challenge to skilled players." explains the additional units. Thanks for that explanation

But does it also allow AI to outspend earned MMP's? It seems fair to allow 10% increase in earned MMP but overspending by more than 150% doesn't.

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 11:25:35 AM

The Land

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daj

But does it also allow AI to outspend earned MMP's? It seems fair to allow 10% increase in earned MMP but overspending by more than 150% doesn't.

Yeah I'm also confused by that.

I believe the AI only spends MPP it has in the bank (like a human), but it can sometimes have a large MPP balance if it ends up against the maximum possible unit numbers and research investments.

Also I don't know exactly how the spending graph is calculated and whether it looks at actual costs or whether it doesn't take into account for instance discounts for rebuilding units.

But can't say I know for sure!

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 11:46:34 AM

daj

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Thank you.

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

I too thought that I just didn't properly understand what the graphs mean. Having just completed a game as Allies I just can't understand how both USA and USSR can invest so quickly in research.

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 4:14:15 PM

Hubert Cater

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land
So there are some units that appear by event in every game - the US receives a navy when it mobilises. Zhukov appears when the Russia Transfers Forces from Far East event triggers. You should get all these when playing as Allies.

There are a bunch MORE free units that the AI gets defined by the difficulty level. If you play on hard difficulty levels then the AI gets many additional units. This is entirely because the AI can't cope with competent human players. Unlike the MPP and veterancy ratings these are not obviously configurable (I think you can if you go into the details of selecting which scripts run for your game, but that is hidden out of the way a bit.

I'd say we'd like to think of it more of a way to provide an additional layer of difficulty as desired.

For example, some players find the AI difficult enough on the default levels as is, and even on the least difficult level with no unit bonuses at all. While others of course will have no difficulty even on the hardest level available. Every player is different and we try our best to accommodate accordingly.

Granted, while it is true that the AI plays the same way for each difficulty level, this is a design choice to simply try and have the AI play as well as possible no matter the level chosen, with the differences made up with either less MPP available to the AI, more MPP available to the AI, and/or more bonus units or additional experience or spotting given to the AI to make up for the fact the AI is still a computer and not a human mind.

It's a way to fine tune as desired.

For the bonus unit scripts, these are actually all labelled (per difficulty level) and accessible via the OPTIONS->ADVANCED->SCRIPTS under the UNIT script list. They would appear near the end of this list and marked with ALLIED AI, or AXIS AI event names.

From here you can fine tune even further and turn on or off these additional events as desired.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 4:20:00 PM

Hubert Cater

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daj

Thank you.

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

I too thought that I just didn't properly understand what the graphs mean. Having just completed a game as Allies I just can't understand how both USA and USSR can invest so quickly in research.

For this, the AI does also receive some RESEARCH and DIPLOMACY help with a special setting in our scripting system that allows it to purchase some investments even if it doesn't have the applicable MPPs available to it.

It is marked as FORCED in our scripts and while it may allow the AI to purchase some of these investments without sufficient funds, it doesn't always mean that it will.

The idea here is that the AI simply needs to make sure it makes the correct investments by certain dates in order to remain competitive in game. For example, let's say Infantry Warfare, or Advanced Tanks and so on.

When it doesn't, there can be a snowball effect in game where the AI slowly becomes less and less competitive in game over the duration of the war and it really doesn't make for an optimal/enjoyable experience.

Thus the FORCED setting and only because sometimes the AI may run out of funds on that turn where it needed to invest as it also has to prioritize other elements such as purchases, reinforcements, upgrades, operational movements and so on. This is just a way for us to ensure optimal game play by making up for the fact that the AI may struggle at times to balance out all the big picture concerns to the same level that a human player would in game.

But that being said, in the next update, access to these AI scripts, and they will be marked as FORCED, will be available and these too can now be shut off as desired if they are found to be too objectionable.

Hubert

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RE: Confusion - 4/15/2021 5:08:25 PM

daj

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Thank you Hubert. It helped a great deal as I was able to locate the scripts for all of the units I saw appearing.

Frankly in the game I was playing I was not so concerned with the appearance of additional units as much as the advanced research level the units had. Having just played Allies it is hard to figure how USSR can achieve Industrial = 3, Production = 2, advanced tanks = 2, infantry = 2, and a few at level 1 research by early 1042. Looking at the graphs of MMP and research/diplomacy it appears that USSR, and especially USA, are overspending MMP's. Or maybe I am confused and not interpreting the graphs properly.

Thanks again for your help.

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Post #: 10