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Support Units, Lock or No?

 
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Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 12:18:56 PM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline 		I understand how SU work and in WiTE1 most players I know simply moved them up the command chain (without any penalty) to the Army level, then decided when to pull them back down mostly to the corps level. However, with the advent of SU's losing 1/2 of the their CPP when reassigned, I wonder if this is the right move anymore? If not, how do experienced players now handle their SU's? If it is still the right move, do you just do it prior to the first ground phase to get the CPP loss over with? Also, I would assume there is a CPP loss moving them up to Army and then back down to the corps, which if true would mean anytime you assign them to the corps, you'll be going in with at best 50% of CPP, which would seem to argue against manually moving them. Finally, I assume if you leave SU unlocked, the AI also suffers the same penalty when moving SUs around? I'm really having a hard time getting my head around this one lol.
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RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:00:12 PM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Just need to decide which corps and divisions need support the most, and switch around when needed.

I'll try to keep the panzer divisions well supported (AA cover, attach pioneers if you're attacking fortified positions), and mostly concentrate artillery on the assault armies' corps which will be doing most of the fighting.

- Switch in siege artillery and heavy guns well in advance before a city assault.

- Move support to higher HQ if planning to refit a formation for a few weeks.

- Use tank destroyers and AT formations if facing armored opposition.

EDIT: I use the HQs locked all the time and try to keep the higher HQs clear of any combat support, maybe just a few in OKH for flexibility.

The Red Army is a different beast, I'm still trying to learn the ropes on Soviet SU management.

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 4/15/2021 4:04:09 PM >

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RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:06:31 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		I typically lock and then manually move SU's where I need. I know some people set everyone to 0 except OKH at 9 but then it takes a long time to assign every single SU on the next turn. I prefer to just move the SU's that I want to move.

I don't think there's CPP loss for moving them, it's just you don't get SU support in combat if you're not 5 hexes or less away, so virtually everything except construction/some AA should be at the corps/divison level.

In general I try to make sure infantry corps all have at least several artillery and at least one engineer. After that it's just putting SU's where there's a higher priority. Like Nix said, if you're going to take a city you need engineers and heavy artillery. So it all just depends.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/15/2021 4:08:31 PM >

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RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:10:01 PM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

I typically lock and then manually move SU's where I need. I know some people set everyone to 0 except OKH at 9 but then it takes a long time to assign every single SU on the next turn. I prefer to just move the SU's that I want to move.

I don't think there's CPP loss for moving them, it's just you don't get SU support in combat if you're not 5 hexes or less away, so virtually everything except construction/some AA should be at the corps/divison level.

In general I try to make sure infantry corps all have at least several artillery and at least one engineer. After that it's just putting SU's where there's a higher priority. Like Nix said, if you're going to take a city you need engineers and heavy artillery. So it all just depends.


I'm pretty sure I read about 50% loss in CPP when assigning, which makes a big difference if true as your SUs would always have half of the CPP of your combat units (assuming they're at 100%).

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Post #: 4
RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:23:16 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bamilus

I typically lock and then manually move SU's where I need. I know some people set everyone to 0 except OKH at 9 but then it takes a long time to assign every single SU on the next turn. I prefer to just move the SU's that I want to move.

I don't think there's CPP loss for moving them, it's just you don't get SU support in combat if you're not 5 hexes or less away, so virtually everything except construction/some AA should be at the corps/divison level.

In general I try to make sure infantry corps all have at least several artillery and at least one engineer. After that it's just putting SU's where there's a higher priority. Like Nix said, if you're going to take a city you need engineers and heavy artillery. So it all just depends.


I'm pretty sure I read about 50% loss in CPP when assigning, which makes a big difference if true as your SUs would always have half of the CPP of your combat units (assuming they're at 100%).


Yes you're right on the SU losing CPP but it wouldn't halve the overall unit CPP. It would just modify the SU CV. If I attach an artillery to a new division it's not going to halve the entire divisions CPP, just the individual artillery SU CPP.

For this reason you shouldn't move SU's around willy nilly, but to get things set-up on first few turns its fine, at least for Axis.

< Message edited by Bamilus -- 4/15/2021 4:26:16 PM >

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RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:31:42 PM   
actrade

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 11/3/2006
Status: offline 		Correct, just the SU, not the entire unit.

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Post #: 6
RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:32:18 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		See pg 272:

quote:

A SU gains or losses CPP according to the actions of the
unit they are attached to. In addition, if a SU is re-attached
(either to a different HQ or to or from a Combat Unit) it will
lose 50% of its existing CPP.


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RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/15/2021 4:46:39 PM   
Repsol

 

Posts: 191
Joined: 1/20/2010
Status: offline 		I kind of like the new way the support units work (no AP cost). It makes it easier to move them around imo. I can't really see any reason for setting support levels to zero any more as in WITE1. I can assign them where i want and before hitting GO on turn two i will have all of them where i want them.

After the initial set-up only minor tweaking is needed.

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Post #: 8
RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/16/2021 2:16:00 PM   
mrblonde1


Posts: 51
Joined: 6/6/2018
Status: offline 		I read somewhere that when you move SU automaticly (like okh set to 9 and rest 0) then the dont loose cpp.

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Post #: 9
RE: Support Units, Lock or No? - 4/16/2021 3:04:48 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		If you're fine with the micro-management, I'd say lock them. For me personally, using the SUs to "customize" some of my divisions is part of the fun.

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