Weird Unit Names

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Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 2:20:09 AM

DorianGray

Posts: 131
Joined: 8/2/2008
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Just purchased and installed WiTE2. Quickly started 1941 scenario and immediately noticed the weird and inconsistently abbreviated German unit names.

Coming from a military background, it is bizarre to see this.

For example, click a typical German Infantry Division (lets say, 44th) and the detail panel describe it as "44th ID". ID? seriously? Someone could not take the time to actually spell out the proper name?

16th Motorized Division described as "16th MD". WTH? MD? Military District?

Oh come on guys, these abbreviations don't even make sense.

However, click on a German Panzer Division, like the 11th, and I expected the name to be truncated as well, but it was fully and correctly named "11th Panzer Division".

You guys created incorrect abbreviated names for most of the German units, which just reeks of laziness because somebody did not want to spell out full names (or even an abbreviation that was more historically accurate).

Not a good 1st impression.

Post #: 1

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 2:40:51 AM

Wild

Posts: 364
Joined: 12/10/2007
Status: offline

There is obviously a limit to how many characters can appear on the counter.

(in reply to DorianGray)

Post #: 2

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 6:41:19 AM

56ajax

Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

@DG

Yes there is a limit in the number of characters that will fit. But to complain that the abbreviations don't make sense is hard to believe considering that in another post Nigel Askey is quoted; he uses the same abbreviations. And further it doesn't reek of laziness but perhaps shows a very long design cycle with the involvement of many people.

But IMO 44th ID, 16th MD, 11th PD or on the Soviet side 215th Mech Div look decidedly UGLY. As we know by the counter whether it is a division or a brigade I would prefer 44th Infantry, 16th Motorised, 11th Panzer and 215th Mechanised.

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(in reply to Wild)

Post #: 3

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 8:57:36 AM

geforth

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/5/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

On the german side, the abbreviations are correct
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heer_(Wehrmacht)#Generalkommandos_und_Wehrkreise

< Message edited by geforth -- 4/22/2021 8:58:22 AM >

(in reply to 56ajax)

Post #: 4

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 11:13:15 AM

Steelers708

Posts: 138
Joined: 12/7/2010
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geforth

On the german side, the abbreviations are correct
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heer_(Wehrmacht)#Generalkommandos_und_Wehrkreise

Wikipedia is never a good source for factual information.

If you look at German primary documents their are several variations in naming convention for divisions, in terms of Infantry divisions these are eg:

1.Infanterie Division
1.Inf. Division
1.Inf. Div.
1 I.D.
1.
1

The last two are used as all the other non infantry division types use the relevant designation e.g. Pz, Mot., Geb. etc therefore infantry divisions are designated just by the number.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to geforth)

Post #: 5

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 11:19:49 AM

Searry

Posts: 848
Joined: 1/24/2014
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Another troll thread. This forum is infested!

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Post #: 6

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 11:49:17 AM

geforth

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/5/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelers708

quote:

ORIGINAL: geforth

On the german side, the abbreviations are correct
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heer_(Wehrmacht)#Generalkommandos_und_Wehrkreise

Wikipedia is never a good source for factual information.

If you look at German primary documents their are several variations in naming convention for divisions, in terms of Infantry divisions these are eg:

1.Infanterie Division
1.Inf. Division
1.Inf. Div.
1 I.D.
1.
1

The last two are used as all the other non infantry division types use the relevant designation e.g. Pz, Mot., Geb. etc therefore infantry divisions are designated just by the number.

local://upfiles/36772/F831B2404B8E4C9894BCB81C69D67C6B.jpg

first thing: it is Infanteriedivision or Infanterie-Division not Infanterie Division. That is important for the abbrevation, because Infanteriedivison is a compound and the abbrevation for compounds in german are the first and the last noun in upper-case letters (ID). both are okay. you can write it ID (Infanteriedivison) or I.D. (Infanterie-Division). that is a (german) grammar thing, not a historical. :)
The Panzergruppe abbrevation with Pz.Gr. has another grammar reason.

< Message edited by geforth -- 4/22/2021 11:50:02 AM >

(in reply to Steelers708)

Post #: 7

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 12:08:54 PM

Steelers708

Posts: 138
Joined: 12/7/2010
From: England
Status: offline

[/quote]
first thing: it is Infanteriedivision or Infanterie-Division not Infanterie Division. That is important for the abbrevation, because Infanteriedivison is a compound and the abbrevation for compounds in german are the first and the last noun in upper-case letters (ID). both are okay. you can write it ID (Infanteriedivison) or I.D. (Infanterie-Division). that is a (german) grammar thing, not a historical. :)
The Panzergruppe abbrevation with Pz.Gr. has another grammar reason.
[/quote]

Then the Germans in WWII were obviously not into "that is a (german) grammar thing, not a historical. :)" as shown by this Meldung from the 715. Infanterie Division.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to geforth)

Post #: 8

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 12:14:53 PM

geforth

Posts: 115
Joined: 6/5/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelers708

first thing: it is Infanteriedivision or Infanterie-Division not Infanterie Division. That is important for the abbrevation, because Infanteriedivison is a compound and the abbrevation for compounds in german are the first and the last noun in upper-case letters (ID). both are okay. you can write it ID (Infanteriedivison) or I.D. (Infanterie-Division). that is a (german) grammar thing, not a historical. :)
The Panzergruppe abbrevation with Pz.Gr. has another grammar reason.

Then the Germans in WWII were obviously not into "that is a (german) grammar thing, not a historical. :)" as shown by this Meldung from the 715. Infanterie Division.

https://www.trave-militaria.de/media/image/52/7f/7d/8286-a9_600x600.jpg
https://germanmilitaryrelics.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/1/p1060086.jpg
https://www.huesken.com/onload/fotos/49431.jpg

< Message edited by geforth -- 4/22/2021 12:15:18 PM >

(in reply to Steelers708)

Post #: 9

RE: Weird Unit Names - 4/22/2021 1:26:50 PM

Slush

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Danmark
Status: offline

Well, it's probably fair to say that peoples spelling and abbreviations were as varied in WW2 as they are now. So it should come as no surprise that someone in the 715. ID wasn't the sharpest pen around because, having been brought up in Germany, I can testify that geforth is absolutely right.

Heck, even Von Manstein wasn't consistent in "Verlorene Siege" where you'll find both Infanteriekorps and Infanterie-Korps. Both of which are correct but shouldn't be intermingled.

(in reply to geforth)

Post #: 10