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ZIS-30?

 
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ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 10:36:07 AM   
ast95

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		In late 41 100 pieces of T-20 Komsomolets carriers was equiped with 57mm anti-tank guns and was designated ZIS-30. This fact is correctly reflected in terms of production, there are 100 of them in pool.

But what seems wrong they don't go anywhere. Actually ZIS-30s were distributed among tank brigades and that was real anti-tank power, ZIS-2 gun could kill Tiger, unlike T-60's 20mm TNSH, wich was good only for scare away stray dogs. In 41's autumn 100 of ZIS-30 was a real value! In game they are just stockpiled in warehouse for no reason.

Hope this will be changed.
Post #: 1
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 12:50:36 PM   
Floxolydian

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		maybe these could be added via a "1st Special Light SP AT Regiment"

If not in this fashion perhaps you could set out to create your own ToE+unit in the editor, it's quite powerful.

(in reply to ast95)
Post #: 2
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 1:45:29 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		there's a 41 TD Battery that you may build to use the ZiS-30.
Does anyone have sources with detailed info about their distributon?
Really hard to get good sources with information about their use.

(in reply to Floxolydian)
Post #: 3
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 2:11:09 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline 		Not a much details about it. Looks like that most of them was used for AT-batteries (4-8 for each) of tank brigades (Western and SW Fronts) from October 1941.
Sources in Russian:
https://warspot.ru/3275-pushka-verhom-na-tyagache
http://aviarmor.net/tww2/tanks/ussr/zis-30.htm
https://topwar.ru/154861-rasskazy-ob-oruzhii-zis-30-vesma-udachnaja-neudacha.html

_____________________________


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Post #: 4
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 4:56:06 PM   
Omat


Posts: 2414
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline 		Hello

I posted this in Development Forum

quote:

I wanted to ask what to do with the ZiS-30. I think it is quite a problem because not many where build and information about them are not so good. Mainly because the soviets named in military reports as the 57-mm gun ZiS-2. Right now these vehicle is not used.

Sources says about 20 Tank brigades on the South West Front and the Western Front got these vehicles....

This is quite interessting:

Maybe Pavel can understand this Document better....

http://yuripasholok.livejournal.com/2393967.html


10th Tank Brigade: 4 vehicles, received on September 22nd, 1941
11th Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on September 30th, 1941
12th Tank Brigade: 4 vehicles, received on September 22nd, 1941
13th Tank Brigade: 4 vehicles, received on September 22nd, 1941
14th Tank Brigade: 4 vehicles, received on September 22nd, 1941
15th Tank Brigade: 4 vehicles, received on September 22nd, 1941
16th Tank Brigade: 4 vehicles, received on September 22nd, 1941
18th Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 3rd, 1941
19th Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 5th, 1941
20th Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 7th, 1941
21st Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 11th, 1941
22nd Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 7th, 1941
23rd Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 9th, 1941
27th Tank Brigade: 8 vehicles, received on October 13th, 1941
38th Motorcycle Regiment: 4 vehicles on September 22nd, 1941

I am not sure if there should be added and extra TOE which include the ZiS-30. Maybe there should be a second line of Tank Brigades (41c , 41d and 42c) with 8 and for the 42c 4 ZiS-30 for these specific Tank brigades?

41a Tank Brigade -> 41b Tank Brigade -> 42a Tank Brigade ->
----------------------------------------------------------------------42b Tank Brigade
41c Tank Brigade -> 41d Tank Brigade -> 42c Tank Brigade ->

As a compensation maybe the number of anti tank guns should be reduced for these Tank Brigades....


I did not find other units.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

there's a 41 TD Battery that you may build to use the ZiS-30.
Does anyone have sources with detailed info about their distributon?
Really hard to get good sources with information about their use.



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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 5
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 6:17:56 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I don't see how the TD battery is buildable. Will move this to the data issue area.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Omat)
Post #: 6
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/26/2021 7:11:38 PM   
ast95

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I don't see how the TD battery is buildable. Will move this to the data issue area.


It is. In WITE1. Thanks!

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 7
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/27/2021 4:42:01 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline 		It is in WiTE1; it non appearance was reported in Dev and i think I was told that it gets used in 1943..........

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

(in reply to ast95)
Post #: 8
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/27/2021 6:35:53 AM   
ast95

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

It is in WiTE1; it non appearance was reported in Dev and i think I was told that it gets used in 1943..........


Unhistorical! In 43 there were much stronger SP-ATs, in much more awesome numbers.

Give us back our ZIS-30s!

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 9
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/27/2021 5:56:52 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I've asked Trey to look at this. They should be made buildable, and/or some reinforcement units should arrive. Anyone know what the historical units were that used this weapon?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to ast95)
Post #: 10
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/27/2021 7:49:24 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		The easiest solution may be to add 4 of them to 41b/42a Tank brigades so we won't have to deal with very smallish units that have no upgrade path to Light SU Rgt.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 11
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/27/2021 9:00:48 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I think this may be the best solution.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

The easiest solution may be to add 4 of them to 41b/42a Tank brigades so we won't have to deal with very smallish units that have no upgrade path to Light SU Rgt.



< Message edited by Great_Ajax -- 4/27/2021 9:01:06 PM >

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 12
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/28/2021 1:38:04 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 1950
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I've asked Trey to look at this. They should be made buildable, and/or some reinforcement units should arrive. Anyone know what the historical units were that used this weapon?


All I could find was that they were issued to some Tank Brigades of the Western and Southwestern Front from September 1941, relying on existing units handing over their tractors for conversion

_____________________________

Molotov : This we did not deserve.

Foch : This is not peace. This is a 20 year armistice.

C'est la guerre aérienne

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 13
RE: ZIS-30? - 4/28/2021 6:10:40 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Sounds like Dennis's basic idea is a good one, especially given what John says about where they were assigned. You might get by just having them assigned to the 41b tank brigade as they'd probably be mostly lost by the time all of the tank brigades have upgraded to the 42 version. We could try that and see if they need to be extended to the 42a as well.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 14
RE: ZIS-30? - 5/6/2021 3:37:47 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Added the Zis-30s the 41a, 41b and 42a Tank Brigades.

Trey

_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 15
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