China Campaign Victory Conditions

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China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/2/2021 7:05:23 PM

abchambe

Posts: 69
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Vancouver Island
Status: offline

I just finished the China scenario as the Japanese at Historical levels. The final result was a Chinese major victory, with the comment that Japan was a Worse then Historical Result. I have some issue with that characterization.

At August 1939, the Japanese held 3 VP cities - Peking, Sian and Shanghai. China continued to hold 5 VP cities.

To see how this compared to other scenarios I looked at the situation at the start of the Pacific 1941 scenario (note that the China scenario finishes more than 2 years before this point). In Dec 41, Japan also holds just 3 VP cities in China - Peking, Shanghai and Canton (Sian is still Chinese controlled). If the China scenario allowed me to continue, I could easily take Canton in 2 years by amphib, and possibly take Changsha by land.

On the face of this comparison, I don't understand why the scenario considers that I did worse than historical as I conquered Sian 2 years early, Canton is easily conquerable by amphib invasion with naval and carrier support, and an additional Chinese VP city is possible in the remaining 2 year timeframe.

The initial plan for a China scenario in WPP was originally a 1937 - 1941 scenario. Is it possible the VP conditions for the China scenario are based on the initial 4 year timeframe, but were not adjusted when the scenario was shortened to 2 years? The margin in VPs was significant (389 to 67) so I do not see how I could make up 300+ points in a 2 year timeframe, given the distances involved. I am not claiming I am a great land player, but I feel I am competent.

How are others doing in winning this scenario? Are you having better success than I am?

Post #: 1

RE: China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/3/2021 10:57:36 AM

YueJin

Posts: 243
Joined: 1/5/2015
Status: offline

I played through the scenario yesterday to learn the basics of the land war and managed to capture Peking, Shanghai, Canton and Sian by the end of 1938 then ended stuck in place outside of Changsha for most of 1939 due to supply shortages from partisan attack (I hadn't realised how supply truck stockpile and use worked).

This was also a worse than historical result and a major allied victory so it seems that the Japanese need to march as far inland as Chungking by 1939 and possibly even take Lanzhou and Chengtu as I lost by over 200 victory points. Taking Changsha certainly seems feasible with good play but going further looks impossible unless there's a way to work much more efficiently with supply than I've worked out so far.

I think I'll try playing through again buying a lot more garrison divisions and fewer front line units and see if that works out better.

< Message edited by YueJin -- 5/3/2021 11:24:37 AM >

(in reply to abchambe)

Post #: 2

RE: China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/3/2021 1:16:00 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Did you take Canton? You should generally get to historical lines by the end of the scenario in the same time span for a historical result.

Better than that for a win.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to YueJin)

Post #: 3

RE: China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/3/2021 4:25:18 PM

Dgold

Posts: 794
Joined: 4/23/2000
From: BC, Canada
Status: offline

Canton was captured by the Japanese on 21 October, 1938

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 4

RE: China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/3/2021 6:25:59 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Very likely just an adjustment on VPs from my end for the game. I have to manually calculate it out.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Dgold)

Post #: 5

RE: China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/3/2021 7:07:08 PM

abchambe

Posts: 69
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Vancouver Island
Status: offline

Let's calculate the victory points that Japan would get if they capture the Chinese VP cities they had at Nov 1941 (ignoring the fact that the China scenario only goes to Sept 1939). They had 3 VP cities (Peking, Shanghai & Canton). For China scenario purposes (which is 56 turns long, let's assume they got them on average 1/2 way through the scenario. Japan would have 3 * 56 * 0.5 or 84 points. China would have 84 points for the other 1/2 of those 3 VP cities plus full VPs for the other 5 VP cities it continuously held for a total of 364 VPs. So using the current VP system of the China scenario, the historical situation of the Japanese would be judged a major Chinese victory based on the 364 vs 84 VPs.

I agree that the Chinese scenario need the victory VPs to be adjusted.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 6

RE: China Campaign Victory Conditions - 5/3/2021 7:34:40 PM

YueJin

Posts: 243
Joined: 1/5/2015
Status: offline

Well it seems like learning how the supply system works makes a hell of a difference. I went from failing to take Changsha by the end of the scenario to forcing the surrender of both communist and nationalist China on the last turn. Not sure this should be possible but I guess I didn't give the AI any bonuses.

By the end of 1938 I'd captured Peking, Shanghai, Canton, Lanzhou and Changsha fairly easily after trapping around 25% of the Chinese army on the coast north of Nanjing. Even with virtually no resistance Chengtu and Chungking were near impossible to capture as there are no railway supply lines to them and the road supply stops three hexes short of Chunking. Even after taking them, the resources there can't be used for supply so they can only be held by constantly cycling in fresh forces whilst the out of supply ones try to retreat.

Even with every major city in mainland China taken though this was the final VP result so essentially anything less than total Chinese surrender will likely be a defeat for the Axis.