Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Shadow Empire >> Suggestions and Feedback >> Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start

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Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/5/2021 1:36:09 AM

mikehurley

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/15/2013
Status: offline

Vic � thank you for the great game!

Would be great to have an option when starting a game to have better leaders. Maybe 3 different check boxes, including:

Regular Leaders: What we get now
Better Leaders: All leaders Cap 2+, with all stats rolled in the average to +1 standard deviation range
Outstanding (or Elite) Leaders: All leaders Cap 3+, with all stats rolled in the +1 to +2 standard deviation range

Thanks again Vic � MH

Post #: 1

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/5/2021 9:13:50 AM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

Skill is actually not as relevant as Happiness.
Happiness grants a modifier of [Happiness -50] in percent.
Skill meanwhile only grants a +1% per average Roll over 100, but no penalty.

What I think would bring more is "conforming leaders". You know that part where you selected 3 profiles to get a bonus? Well, the Factions and existing leaders do not follow that one. More oftne then not I selected a Playstyle - only to have teh Cult, Factions and Leaders all disagree with it.

(in reply to mikehurley)

Post #: 2

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/5/2021 9:15:27 AM

Zanotirn

Posts: 113
Joined: 3/12/2021
Status: offline

I think there is even some realistic justification for more capable/conforming leaders at start - presumably regimes with average and particularly sub-par leadership would be much less likely to transition to major status.

< Message edited by Zanotirn -- 5/5/2021 9:16:23 AM >

(in reply to mikehurley)

Post #: 3

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/8/2021 6:26:15 PM

Peresvet

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/4/2021
Status: offline

The great leaders are only great when compared to dull ones. If they all were Cap 3+, there would be no great leaders anymore. They would all be more or less the same.

(in reply to Zanotirn)

Post #: 4

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/9/2021 7:13:03 AM

Maerchen

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline

You can sort of reroll your leaders when you get a cabinet full of autocrats while you want to focus democracy, for example. This works for all combinations of profiles.

If you are particularly unhappy with your starting crew, reload lastplanetgenerated.se, this can shuffle your cabinet.

_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to Peresvet)

Post #: 5

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/9/2021 11:33:33 AM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peresvet

The great leaders are only great when compared to dull ones. If they all were Cap 3+, there would be no great leaders anymore. They would all be more or less the same.

Starting Leaders do not change the Randomness of the rest of the game. Only the randomness of the start of the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maerchen

You can sort of reroll your leaders when you get a cabinet full of autocrats while you want to focus democracy, for example. This works for all combinations of profiles.

If you are particularly unhappy with your starting crew, reload lastplanetgenerated.se, this can shuffle your cabinet.

Now let us asume it is 4 people in Multiplayer and they all want decent starting leaders.
Good luck trying to reroll that.

(in reply to Peresvet)

Post #: 6

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/9/2021 11:36:36 AM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

I play solo since I suck so bad I would lose quick in MP so this info is good to know.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 7

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/10/2021 5:17:59 AM

Peresvet

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/4/2021
Status: offline

quote:

Now let us asume it is 4 people in Multiplayer and they all want decent starting leaders.
Good luck trying to reroll that.

Oh. I see. You worry about possibly non-equal starting conditions in MP game, right? One possible solution to this concern is to have a mirror map with mirror (same) leaders for all players. However, in fact it is not a huge issue really. As it was mentioned earlier in the thread, relation bonus is order of magnitude higher than any possible skill bonus in the beginning of a game.

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 8

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/10/2021 9:39:42 AM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peresvet

quote:

Now let us asume it is 4 people in Multiplayer and they all want decent starting leaders.
Good luck trying to reroll that.

Oh. I see. You worry about possibly non-equal starting conditions in MP game, right? One possible solution to this concern is to have a mirror map with mirror (same) leaders for all players. However, in fact it is not a huge issue really. As it was mentioned earlier in the thread, relation bonus is order of magnitude higher than any possible skill bonus in the beginning of a game.

I know it was mentioned that relations mater. I was the one that mentioned it

"Having leaders with good relations" however is meerely a different way to define "good leaders". So it does not change anything about wanting a "good starting leaders" option.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 5/10/2021 9:40:02 AM >

(in reply to Peresvet)

Post #: 9

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/11/2021 11:08:17 PM

zgrssd

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline

If this is still mostly about Stats and Capacity, The S&S Editor now allows us to change these things.
Making some code that triggers on Turn 1 (before the player is given control) only is trivial.

"Leader / Character Stats" on Page 35 of the S&S Editor Guide indicates that "Capability Level" is Column 2
35-39 are Skill Stats
45-52 are the Personality Stats

Access to the Profile might be possible via "CHARPROFILE" - but I only had read access in other scenarios.
I guess we could do some blunt force thing like a "+100 Loyalty" Leader Feat, which would drag relations up with it.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 5/11/2021 11:09:00 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 10

RE: Suggestion: Better Leaders at Start - 5/16/2021 12:16:43 PM

BlueTemplar

Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
[...]
What I think would bring more is "conforming leaders". You know that part where you selected 3 profiles to get a bonus? Well, the Factions and existing leaders do not follow that one. More oftne then not I selected a Playstyle - only to have teh Cult, Factions and Leaders all disagree with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maerchen

You can sort of reroll your leaders when you get a cabinet full of autocrats while you want to focus democracy, for example. This works for all combinations of profiles.

If you are particularly unhappy with your starting crew, reload lastplanetgenerated.se, this can shuffle your cabinet.

If true, in practice it still makes the choice of starting profiles kind of irrelevant, and a match hard to get even in SP, especially if you consider the Cult ?
(Also a granular random option for each of these screens would be nice.)

There's also this related issue :
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4984515
"[1.08.04b]Leader founds a Faction with opposing Profile"

(in reply to Maerchen)

Post #: 11