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RE: Various unit Errata

 
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RE: Various unit Errata - 4/30/2021 8:44:13 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		315 and 316 FKL Pz Pioneer Companies are classed as Battalions.

The 202 Pz Bat should probably arrive at the same time as the 202 Pz Reg forms the 26. Pz Div, instead of beginning 1943, since even though it was still I/202 at the time, it had already been detached and remained detached until the formal name change.

The Stug M43 that are in it's TOE should be changed to something else, or the production needs to be changed. As of T121 it is still empty.

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 31
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/1/2021 8:04:36 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		T130 39th Infantry Division becomes the 41st Fortress Division. This should be conditional on the unit becoming unready, as this happened due to heavy losses and was a de facto formation of a new unit.

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 32
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/2/2021 9:42:38 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		504 Hvy Cannon Bat
should be in at the start of the game as 504th Coastal Artillery in Norway, probably locked, then rename to 504 Art Bat on 22.Dec 44.
it had 4 Bttrs, probably 2 x 15cm sFH , 1 x 21cm How and 1x 10.5 cm sK


I/127th leFH Bat
should upgrade to sFH in March 1944 and to mixed in June 1944.


III/139 leFH
became independant because the 39th Infantry division was dissolved, if you follow my suggestion and that only happens if it becomes unready, then this should be taken out. If it does get left in it should have 15cm sFH as it was the heavy Abt of the Regiment

I/288 Art Reg should be leFH
I and II/288 Art Reg schould be motorized and disband or rename to 288 Art Brig.
III/288 Art Reg come in as a new unit as that was the renaming of 740th Gun Bat, before going to the 288 Art Brig and then becoming independant again.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/ArtReg/Gliederung.htm


289th sFH Heavy Howitzer Bat
should arrive as 289 Coastal Art Bat 29th Sep 1941, then get renamed. Should have guns in the beginning as it was equipped with captured French 15.5cm.

557th Gun Bat
had a 4th Bttr of 21cm How.

the whole range of Art units from 2167 onward should probably be motorized, I haven't checked through them but most seem motorized except for the fortress units.


< Message edited by MechFO -- 5/2/2021 9:47:14 PM >

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 33
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/6/2021 3:42:31 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, removed.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: teddybbeer


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

zbV Infantry battalions

I couldn't find anything on the 100 and 300 zbV Mot Inf Bats and am inclined to think they shouldn't exist. If anyting it would be 100 and 300 Inf bat, motorised because designated Heerestruppe for a while but can't find anything that could fit.





Tessins Verbände:

Infanterie-Btl. z. b. V. 100 * 29. 10. 1939 durch WK VIII für Sondereinsatz zu 4 Kp.
(3 Schützen-Ko. und 1 schwere Kp. mit 2 Pak- und 2 sMG-Zügen) für den Angriff auf
Fort Eben-Emael;8. 3. 1941 motorisiert und umgegliedert in 5 Kp. (1.-3 . SchützenXp..4. MG- und 5. schw.Kp.); 30. 9. 1941 aufgelöst und im Schützen-Rgt. 129 aufgegangen (zugweise auf sämtl. Kp. dieses Rgts. verteilt).
U: Heerestruppe (OKH)
E: 375 Breslau; 24. 5. 1941 E 51 (mot.) Görlitz, WK VIII

300zbv is on picture, nothing about units motorisation tho.


Thanks, found the entry for 100 under Schützen Reg 129. Shouldn't exist in that case as it will enter as part of 22. Panzer Div.

Regarding 300

Still can't find the listing for 300, but according to what's on Feldgrau it sounds like a pure admin battalion for security/water collection/purification units. Probably shouldn't be in the game.

https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3082



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

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(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 34
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/6/2021 4:02:10 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		The unit classifications should have defaulted to companies but they aren't for some reason so I forced them into displaying the company symbol.

I'm leaving the 202 Pz alone as Lexicon shows that it was established in Jan 43. I also want to leave the captured Italian equipment as I am working with Pavel to come up with some solutions to introduce non-produced captured vehicles. This would include French combat vehicle modifications.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

315 and 316 FKL Pz Pioneer Companies are classed as Battalions.

The 202 Pz Bat should probably arrive at the same time as the 202 Pz Reg forms the 26. Pz Div, instead of beginning 1943, since even though it was still I/202 at the time, it had already been detached and remained detached until the formal name change.

The Stug M43 that are in it's TOE should be changed to something else, or the production needs to be changed. As of T121 it is still empty.



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 35
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/6/2021 4:08:00 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I don't disagree but this one is a tough one to work out because it also ends up becoming the 41st Infantry Division in 1945. So, even if I set the initial change to happen when it depletes, it still has another entry to convert to the 41st Infantry Division in 1945. Either we leave it alone or we need to to remove the rename and make the 41st Fortress Division arrive as a separate unit.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

T130 39th Infantry Division becomes the 41st Fortress Division. This should be conditional on the unit becoming unready, as this happened due to heavy losses and was a de facto formation of a new unit.



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

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(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 36
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/6/2021 5:20:59 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I'm not going to go down the rename and reconfiguration of all of these artillery units because they just swapped out too much to try to keep straight. The same issue occurs with the Panzerjager Battalions. My suggestion in the past (which I haven't given up on) is to allow players the ability to make some modest OB changes to their units. That would be the easiest way to fix this.

I did make the changes to the 139th and 288th units as well as motorize a bunch of the units that you suggested.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

504 Hvy Cannon Bat
should be in at the start of the game as 504th Coastal Artillery in Norway, probably locked, then rename to 504 Art Bat on 22.Dec 44.
it had 4 Bttrs, probably 2 x 15cm sFH , 1 x 21cm How and 1x 10.5 cm sK


I/127th leFH Bat
should upgrade to sFH in March 1944 and to mixed in June 1944.


III/139 leFH
became independant because the 39th Infantry division was dissolved, if you follow my suggestion and that only happens if it becomes unready, then this should be taken out. If it does get left in it should have 15cm sFH as it was the heavy Abt of the Regiment

I/288 Art Reg should be leFH
I and II/288 Art Reg schould be motorized and disband or rename to 288 Art Brig.
III/288 Art Reg come in as a new unit as that was the renaming of 740th Gun Bat, before going to the 288 Art Brig and then becoming independant again.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/ArtReg/Gliederung.htm


289th sFH Heavy Howitzer Bat
should arrive as 289 Coastal Art Bat 29th Sep 1941, then get renamed. Should have guns in the beginning as it was equipped with captured French 15.5cm.

557th Gun Bat
had a 4th Bttr of 21cm How.

the whole range of Art units from 2167 onward should probably be motorized, I haven't checked through them but most seem motorized except for the fortress units.




_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 37
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/6/2021 6:43:05 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		only the Stab of the disbanded 39th inf div was used for the 41th fortress div, the subordinate units were already existing and regrouped as div. In 1/45 it reorganized as infantry div by using further units withdrawn from Greece.

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 38
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/6/2021 7:10:29 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		So, just separating out these two units may be the best course of action anyway.

Trey


quote:



ORIGINAL: Denniss

only the Stab of the disbanded 39th inf div was used for the 41th fortress div, the subordinate units were already existing and regrouped as div. In 1/45 it reorganized as infantry div by using further units withdrawn from Greece.



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

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(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 39
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/7/2021 8:58:47 AM   
rob89

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 4/24/2013
Status: offline 		I found some problems with the Italia OOB (on & off map)

please see:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5012033

regards

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 40
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/7/2021 2:03:05 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I separated the 39th and 41st Divisions. The 41st Fortress now rebuilds from scratch in Western Europe before deploying to the Balkans a few turns later.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

only the Stab of the disbanded 39th inf div was used for the 41th fortress div, the subordinate units were already existing and regrouped as div. In 1/45 it reorganized as infantry div by using further units withdrawn from Greece.



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
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WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 41
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/8/2021 12:34:23 AM   
RC01214

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/22/2014
Status: offline 		Most Soviet Divisions and on map Corps units have an Engineer-Sapper Squad element (0733) that is actually a labor squad. The Engineer-Sapper Battalion (1084) and Regiment (1081), along with the Mot. Engineer-Sapper Battalion (2033) off map support units are also affected by this element issue.
The Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade is the only unit that is not affected.
Should they be the Sapper Squad (0800) or Assault Engineer-Sapper Squad (0799) elements instead, or is this intended to reflect the shortage of engineers that the USSR had during the early war?
Also, are the 41 and 43 Engineer-Sapper Brigades (1076 and 1077) supposed to be construction units or engineer units? They seem to be redundant compared to the 41 RR Construction Brigade (1087).

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 42
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/8/2021 2:12:29 AM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Its WAD.

The designers programmed this game so that 'Engineer' classes use the doctrinal German use of pioneers as the standard in combat resolution. Actually, the German doctrinal use of Sturm Pioneers which includes close assault of fortifications was rather unique and not standard across all armies. The Soviets didn't adopt this kind of close assault until mid 1943 with the introduction of their Assault Engineers.

I'm not satisfied with the two extremes that are offered in building these units as engineers are either sturm pioneers trained for destroying enemy fortifications or construction/labor. There needs to be a middle class called 'Combat Engineers' which fall short of conducting massive assaults but will fight in defensive situations. In the end, I chose the Engineer-Sappers to be labor squads instead of German-like assault pioneers until the Assault Engineer-Sappers show up in mid 1943.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: RC01214

Most Soviet Divisions and on map Corps units have an Engineer-Sapper Squad element (0733) that is actually a labor squad. The Engineer-Sapper Battalion (1084) and Regiment (1081), along with the Mot. Engineer-Sapper Battalion (2033) off map support units are also affected by this element issue.
The Assault Engineer-Sapper Brigade is the only unit that is not affected.
Should they be the Sapper Squad (0800) or Assault Engineer-Sapper Squad (0799) elements instead, or is this intended to reflect the shortage of engineers that the USSR had during the early war?
Also, are the 41 and 43 Engineer-Sapper Brigades (1076 and 1077) supposed to be construction units or engineer units? They seem to be redundant compared to the 41 RR Construction Brigade (1087).



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

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(in reply to RC01214)
Post #: 43
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/8/2021 11:46:07 PM   
RC01214

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/22/2014
Status: offline 		In that case, should the Axis Minor engineer units also be classed as labor squads, since they might also fall into the grey area of Combat Engineers?

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 44
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/9/2021 7:49:18 AM   
jlbhung

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/10/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Great_Ajax

... In the end, I chose the Engineer-Sappers to be labor squads instead of German-like assault pioneers until the Assault Engineer-Sappers show up in mid 1943.



In this case, shouldn't the Soviet OBs use the "Assault" type sappers (element 799) [Edited to make it more precise] after mid-1943? I find that the Soviet OBs are still using the labor type sappers.

< Message edited by jlbhung -- 5/9/2021 8:16:18 AM >

(in reply to Great_Ajax)
Post #: 45
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/9/2021 8:46:40 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		AFAIR soviets used specialized engineer units for attack operations, those were not integral parts of standard formations.
In WitE1 these were the onmap units nobody used and most got disbanded by players.

< Message edited by Denniss -- 5/9/2021 8:47:41 AM >

(in reply to jlbhung)
Post #: 46
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/10/2021 11:13:35 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 669
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline 		Hungarian

I Hun Corps
1 Res Div
2 Res Div
11 Res Div
14 Res Div
15 Res Div
17 Res Div
22 Res Div
26 Res Div
9th Border Brigade

Have 113 turn freeze timer at turn 138. This means they are effectively out of the game. Don't know if this is WAD.

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 47
RE: Various unit Errata - 5/11/2021 12:27:52 AM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		Its WAD. They get activated when the Soviets get into Hungary.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Hungarian

I Hun Corps
1 Res Div
2 Res Div
11 Res Div
14 Res Div
15 Res Div
17 Res Div
22 Res Div
26 Res Div
9th Border Brigade

Have 113 turn freeze timer at turn 138. This means they are effectively out of the game. Don't know if this is WAD.



_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
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(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 48
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