[1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water

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[1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/12/2021 3:13:34 AM

misterprimus

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...to the point of having it go to waste (in excess of what can be used, stored, and sold). First of all, this makes no sense from an economic standpoint - why produce so much you have to throw it away when you can just slow down production to below 100%? Secondly, it causes problems on low water planets like Seth class since it forces the player to either rush to build over the asset, privatize it, or risk running out of water before other tech allows water extraction in cities comes along.

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/15/2021 12:06:31 PM

BlueTemplar

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EDIT : Never mind, I made a mistake, and seemingly can't delete this message now ?

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 5/15/2021 12:08:30 PM >

(in reply to misterprimus)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/15/2021 9:23:19 PM

Clux

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The water than its going to waste its the one than the private sector contributes to your zones, however, they're selling the rest in the black market where most of the time there is a demand, cuz if the prices were extremely slow, the private sector would have prioritized making an oil rig community or any other tip of asset before a ice mine.

_____________________________

Amateurs talk about strategy. Professionals talk about logistics!

(in reply to BlueTemplar)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/15/2021 10:19:06 PM

zgrssd

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Clux

The water than its going to waste its the one than the private sector contributes to your zones, however, they're selling the rest in the black market where most of the time there is a demand, cuz if the prices were extremely slow, the private sector would have prioritized making an oil rig community or any other tip of asset before a ice mine.

The prices depend on demand and supply.
On planets with rain there is a lot of supply - everyone has several thousand income per turn.
And also very little demand - everyone has several thousand income per turn.

If a Icemine overproduces, it can - figuratively and literally - flood the market.

(in reply to Clux)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/16/2021 1:21:54 PM

BlueTemplar

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But there's also no risk of running out of water on those planets.
If you're on such a planet, but otherwise unluckily stuck in a desert, and depleted your ice mine(s), you should be able to buy that water for cheap ?
(And if you're concerned about waste, but still expect to need that water a bit later, then I guess Water Reservoir(s) might help for a while ?)

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 5/16/2021 1:24:05 PM >

(in reply to zgrssd)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/17/2021 3:19:28 AM

misterprimus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

But there's also no risk of running out of water on those planets.
If you're on such a planet, but otherwise unluckily stuck in a desert, and depleted your ice mine(s), you should be able to buy that water for cheap ?
(And if you're concerned about waste, but still expect to need that water a bit later, then I guess Water Reservoir(s) might help for a while ?)

Those are just band-aids. Water reservoirs are not always available early on. The real issue is that this sort of behavior is unrealistic and can "break" someone's game.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/17/2021 9:48:55 AM

BlueTemplar

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I guess that this issue (and similar ones) would be solved if you could mothball a construction.
Right now the best you can do is to build it at 25% speed, and I can understand how, even spread over 8 turns, 250 metal, 250 IPs and 2 machines would be too much in the early game !

Also, being able to mothball constructions without cancelling them would help micromanagement in all game stages, though it might make sense that this currently works like this to make you think before you commit to start a new construction..?

Finally, this could be the opportunity to simplify the asset management buttons :
currently the Active/Mothball buttons are kind of redundant with the 25%-100% buttons, sometimes forcing extra clicks (for instance when you want to re-activate an asset, but not at 100%).
This could be the opportunity to "get rid" of both of those : put a 0% button in the Mothball spot, a 100% button in the Active spot.

(Maybe also have more granular controls on the right : 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% ?
This might also help because a lot of asset costs split poorly into 1/4ths, for instance all those asking for 50 or 125 items.
But maybe it would be *worse* because a lot of construction *times* split better into halves or 1/4ths ?
Yeah, never mind about changing the splits, just replace Active & Mothball by 100% and 0% for both new constructions and already built assets...)

(in reply to misterprimus)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/17/2021 2:23:46 PM

zgrssd

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quote:

I guess that this issue (and similar ones) would be solved if you could mothball a construction.
Right now the best you can do is to build it at 25% speed, and I can understand how, even spread over 8 turns, 250 metal, 250 IPs and 2 machines would be too much in the early game !

The title refers very specifically to Private Ice Mines.
You can not change the production off or mothball private Ice mines.

Please read before you reply.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/17/2021 3:34:44 PM

BlueTemplar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

...to the point of having it go to waste (in excess of what can be used, stored, and sold). First of all, this makes no sense from an economic standpoint - why produce so much you have to throw it away when you can just slow down production to below 100%? Secondly, it causes problems on low water planets like Seth class since it forces the player to either rush to build over the asset, privatize it, or risk running out of water before other tech allows water extraction in cities comes along.

Emphasis mine.
Being able to start the construction on the water spot and immediately mothball the ice mine should prevent the private sector from grabbing it ?

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 5/17/2021 3:35:44 PM >

(in reply to misterprimus)

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RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/17/2021 10:11:02 PM

misterprimus

Posts: 75
Joined: 3/12/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

...to the point of having it go to waste (in excess of what can be used, stored, and sold). First of all, this makes no sense from an economic standpoint - why produce so much you have to throw it away when you can just slow down production to below 100%? Secondly, it causes problems on low water planets like Seth class since it forces the player to either rush to build over the asset, privatize it, or risk running out of water before other tech allows water extraction in cities comes along.

Emphasis mine.
Being able to start the construction on the water spot and immediately mothball the ice mine should prevent the private sector from grabbing it ?

If you can get to it in time. Private industry seems to be either hopelessly slow or they build on it the turn after you capture it, so...maybe? But again, that's a band-aid / workaround. I shouldn't have to have the government seize assets to keep the private industry from screwing it up. The private sector should be more efficient if anything, not hopelessly stupid!

(in reply to BlueTemplar)

Post #: 10

RE: [1.09.02] private ice mines overproduce water - 5/18/2021 12:12:24 AM

zgrssd

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

quote:

ORIGINAL: misterprimus

...to the point of having it go to waste (in excess of what can be used, stored, and sold). First of all, this makes no sense from an economic standpoint - why produce so much you have to throw it away when you can just slow down production to below 100%? Secondly, it causes problems on low water planets like Seth class since it forces the player to either rush to build over the asset, privatize it, or risk running out of water before other tech allows water extraction in cities comes along.

Emphasis mine.
Being able to start the construction on the water spot and immediately mothball the ice mine should prevent the private sector from grabbing it ?

If you can get to it in time. Private industry seems to be either hopelessly slow or they build on it the turn after you capture it, so...maybe? But again, that's a band-aid / workaround. I shouldn't have to have the government seize assets to keep the private industry from screwing it up. The private sector should be more efficient if anything, not hopelessly stupid!

That the private Economy is somehow more efficient is a myth. There are plenty of cases where they are less efficient.

However I think we can all agree they should not overproduce stuff. The main problem is: How do you identify overproduction? It is a decision only the SHQ can do.
The SHQ will still retrieve the stuff, to then sell or dump it from storage.
And you might need that much production just to draw even with consumption on the SHQ side.

Of course ideally the Private Economy would have to ask us for permission to build on a tile.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 5/18/2021 12:14:17 AM >

(in reply to misterprimus)

Post #: 11