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Feedback on MCNA - Got Any? - 7/12/2001 11:37:00 PM

Wild Bill

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Some of you have your MCNA. The rest of you will be receiving yours in a matter of days. I'm interested in hearing some feedback on the scenarios themselves. It would be good to know if you found them winnable but difficult...how difficult? Are they interesting? Do they seem fair? Do they have a historical flavor. Notice if you will that the designer's name is in the bottom right hand corner of the scenario. Thus you can write him directly if you wish about the battle he has designed. I've got listening ear and an open mind (open does not mean vacant ;) ). Fire away! Wild Bill

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- 7/13/2001 12:12:00 AM

SAMWolf

Posts: 141
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From: Oregon, USA
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quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: Some of you have your MCNA. The rest of you will be receiving yours in a matter of days. I'm interested in hearing some feedback on the scenarios themselves. It would be good to know if you found them winnable but difficult...how difficult? Are they interesting? Do they seem fair? Do they have a historical flavor. Notice if you will that the designer's name is in the bottom right hand corner of the scenario. Thus you can write him directly if you wish about the battle he has designed. I've got listening ear and an open mind (open does not mean vacant ;) ). Fire away! Wild Bill

I've only been able to play the first two missions and am currently starting over. I received the fix for the "Phantom Infantry" in mission two and decided to start the campaign over. The first mission has taught me to absolutely hate the 2Lbr AT and the 40mm AA guns, most of my armor losses are caused by these guns, because they get to fire for 2 or 3 turns before I can spot them. So far I've been very pleased with the challenges provided by the Mega campaign. I can't wait to try the Lost Victories Campaign. Keep up the great work.

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- 7/13/2001 1:11:00 AM

AlvinS

Posts: 665
Joined: 12/2/2000
From: O'Fallon, Missouri
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I am really enjoying myself. This is my first experience with a Mega Campaign. I am on the 4th mission at the moment. I had a moderate victory on the first scenario, and a decisive victory on the 2nd and 3rd scenarios. :D I feel the scenarios are well balanced so far. achievable but difficult enought to have to work at it. In the first scenario I had to work very hard for my last objective. Made it by the skin of my teeth. I am still learning to find mines the correct way. If you only put one mine on the whole map I would run over it. :rolleyes: Great job to all who made this game and campaign possible. I look forward to the "Lost Victories" Mega Campaign. Alvin :cool:

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AlvinS

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- 7/13/2001 1:44:00 AM

hhsohn

Posts: 60
Joined: 7/21/2000
From: Walnut, California, USA
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Hey, thanks for all the efforts put into the campaign. I've fought about 3-4 battles so far, and gotten decisive victiories mostly. But they've been hard-fought battles, and I'm learning how to cope with the hidden AT and AA guns and the dreaded Matildas. The AC and one particular PzIIIe platoon's been hit so hard so often that my staff don't even bother telling me their names. :) But the scenarios have been winnable so far with little casualties if I act with patience. Sometimes I wish I had little more infantry and less armor, but they are playable as they are. Oh, yeah, thanks for the little visit at the front on Agedabia, Col. Wilder. They've been little disappoined at the delay there, but they throughly whopped the Commonwealth forces on your visit. :)

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- 7/13/2001 2:18:00 AM

RolandRahn_MatrixForum

Posts: 588
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From: Beloit, USA
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It's great, but there is just one small remark on the first scenario (If you choose to get that train :) ) : If you play with command&control on, it is (at least for me) impossible to reach the train, blow it away and than to reach one of the exit hexes. After blowing up the train (and two depots) and destroying several attacking tanks I received a draw. In my second try, I just moved all units into the victory exit hexes, (generated some smoke to prevent being fired upon from that [censored] :) cave and achieved a minor victory...... The scenario is great, but if it is played with C&C on, the player has (in my opinion) a huge disadvantage... I can't wait for Lost Victories, but at the same time I have one (off-topic) question: Wouldn't it be possible to have an allied MC? Or a Japanese? Kind regards, Roland

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- 7/13/2001 2:37:00 AM

Rover

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I loved it... I hated it... I laughed... I cried! Took me about three times playing through the first battle choosing no options to get a decisive victory. I'm now starting the second battle again choosing no options. The new save process takes some getting used to and I did find the refresh movement "bug" when saving in the middle of a turn (accidentally took advantage of it once). So far I think its turned out exactly as billed and I wouldn't change the design strategy given the little bit I've seen. I agree with the comment about a little more infantry given the games recent changes in that area. Having said that if this is the most accurate representation of the forces historically then I'd leave it alone to better experience the actual challenges the commanders faced. Can't wait for MCLV... Later, R

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- 7/13/2001 2:39:00 AM

Coachace

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It's great, WB. I've played the first few missions through just prior to Tobruk. I can't recall the scenario name, but I'm defending an area just outside Tobruk, having just captured it during the previous scenario. I'm holding out with limited forces waiting for Rommel's reenforcements. Can't say how this one will turn out yet, but I the treads of approaching panzers. Hopefully, they'll help push back those damn Matildas.

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- 7/13/2001 12:23:00 PM

pbhawkin1

Posts: 158
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hi all, I am certainly enjoying the MC. have played the first battle twice now and about to start the second (option with the brandenburgers). I do have a question re force moral. I took all objectives and exited most of my forces, the game then didn't seem to end so I had to keep pressing end turn button. During the allied turns the 'broken force moral' message appeared (it had also appeared earlier as well) but the allied troops that were left (2x40mm guns and 2x emplacements) would keep firing! I thought that they should be suppressed or retreating to their exit hex not fighting!? Also i gather that a scenario can't end until the number of turns that it is in length have elapsed. IE if I compete all mission goals 5 turns before the 12 turn limit the scenario doesn't just finish? Is this to allow any enemy reinforcements that may appear in later turn to appear? (even if the force moral is broken?).

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- 7/13/2001 7:58:00 PM

AJH

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I'm through seven battles so far, and it has certainly been everything it was promised to be. Love the option of the smaller battles, as well as some of the situations at the start of battles(which I won't give away to those who haven't played them yet). It definitely has historical flavor, and all the accounts I've read of German tankers being frustrated and appalled to see their shells bouncing off Matildas have come to life...The scenarios are balanced for the most part, I think, but a couple of UK units I've seen were not in the UK OOB until 1942. I've reasoned that this was done to make the AI tougher and scenarios more challenging, so it doesn't make much difference as far as I'm concerned. Great job, and looking forward to Lost Victories!

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- 7/13/2001 8:48:00 PM

Mark Ezra

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Since I tested the first scen you'd think I'd do better. Having my command shot to peices reminds me once again that SPWAW is not the SP of old. I cannot walzt around the battlefield with tanks, immune from but the heaviest of the AI guns. Now I'm forced to use sound tatcics and combined arms to survive. So I'm gonna start the game again (third time) and try to learn some doctrine. Rommel is not amused...LOL

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- 7/13/2001 10:05:00 PM

11Bravo

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quote:

Originally posted by SAMWolf: I received the fix for the "Phantom Infantry" in mission two and decided to start the campaign over.

I haven't heard of this. Does it have something to do with the that recon colonel who teleports between two halftracks? Where do I get this fix? :confused:

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- 7/13/2001 10:10:00 PM

SAMWolf

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quote:

Originally posted by 11Bravo: I haven't heard of this. Does it have something to do with the that recon colonel who teleports between two halftracks? Where do I get this fix? :confused:

This fix is for Mission two. The one with the "unloadable" infantry from the two SdKfz 7's andfrom one of the trucks. So far there is no fix for MIssion one's duplicate Recce HQ. Just e-mail "Wild" Bill for the fix.

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- 7/13/2001 10:12:00 PM

11Bravo

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Thanks for the quick reply SAMWolf! :cool: As far as the MCNA. I am on the first scenerio (no options) after starting over. My first attempt (catch that train) went very well, but I lost the file when I got a new computer. I love everything so far except the autosave behavior. Perhaps make it optional? Anywho, great work team. I will be ordering your next MC as well. Please make one from the allied perspective. :) [ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: 11Bravo ]

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- 7/13/2001 10:14:00 PM

Rover

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Is there some way to post the fix in a more public place so WB doesn't get a ton of email requests? R

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- 7/13/2001 10:29:00 PM

SAMWolf

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quote:

Originally posted by Rover: Is there some way to post the fix in a more public place so WB doesn't get a ton of email requests? R

Per Wild Bill:

quote:

I have revised the scenario now and if any of you want to go back and play this one again, I'll be happy to send it to you. Regretfully I cannot just slip it in where you are since you have begun battle #2. It would mean starting the campaign over at battle one unless you have a separate save of battle One without entering battle Two. Confusing? You bet. Bottom line, if you want this file to update your MCNA, drop me a note and I will send it to you. By the way, the anomaly in the second battle should not be that weighty a factor in winning or losing. It is, however, an annoyance. So if you prefer not to go back, it is okay too. I'll still send the file should you want it. We'll try to make it a download somewhere soon on the SPWAW/Mega Camp site. Wild Bill

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- 7/13/2001 11:52:00 PM

Dan Bozza

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I have played 4 scenarios so far, and 2 of them were of the "destroy at all costs" variety. The train being one of them. My quibble is that during the briefing, you are instructed that the destruction of the train is the prime goal, objectives are not important. Well, if you want to do better than a draw and get chewed out, the victory hexes ARE indeed important. The first time I played the scenario, I didn't even try to hold the VH's after capturing them, because I was exiting everyone off the map. The Brits retook the VH's inside the train yard before the scenario ended, and I wound up with a draw and a tongue lashing. Should the victory hexes in those type of scenarios be worth so much that it prevents a victory? As a side note, my sides losses were minimal, so that wasn't a factor. Otherwise, I'm having a blast! :D :D

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- 7/14/2001 1:47:00 AM

Wild Bill

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Okay, here we go guys, hold on... I hope I answer all of you adequately. If not call my hand :D SamW...thank you! That makes this old warrior very happy for the many hundreds of hours I put into this. I appreciate it! Roland, C&C I did not consider for some of the "raid" type scenarios. My feelings were that these troops were previously briefed and put on their own in smaller units. Now in the larger battles C&C works better, but in the small lightning strikes I do recommend you play with it off. Next: HHSOhn, My visit showed that you and Oberst Dietsl had the situation well in hand so I moved on to get on someone else's case! Those nameless units is a bug that none of us saw. Sorry. Just consider it as the commander who finally does not want to know the names of the new men so he does not grieve so much at their loss. THen: Rover, I must have missed those. We did our best to stick to 1941 nomenclature, but a few did slip through the cracks. Does make for some better scenarios, though, doesn't it? Okay... Many thanks CoachAce. It was my biggest challenge to date. Reinforcements can seem to take forever when you need them, don't they. Don't let the Cavalry arrive too late or its a wasted trip ;) and... Peter, I understand your thinking about scenario ending. I would have opted for that too. It did not happen in the multitude of fixes. So just click through to the end. We were really more concerned about scenarios ending prematurely. That one was worse! Apparently it still happens, though much rarer now. So... AJH...congrats. You've really moved along well in the battles. Still a long way to go. Be sure and try an occasional alternate. I think you'll like them. Plus... Careful Warlord! As Rommel threatened, "Get moving or I will come down to you!" :D Thanks for pointing Bravo my way, Sam. Still trying to figure out #1 myself. 11Bravo, did you get the fix? I did send it. next... CAtch the Train is one of my favorites. Another one is looking for the SAS. And then the capturing and stealing Matilda tanks...gotta love that one ;) so... Thanks ROver. I hope to have it posted or else made available as a download shortly, much like a game patch. I appreciate your thoughtfulness. I don't mind. You guys are nice enough to play it, I'll help out where I can. plus... Boz, that was a new bug introduced in the game. The units have enough points (the train and cars) to sway the scenario. The new bug ignored those values. It has been fixed now and if you play it again...but not necessary, I think you will see what I mean. In another scenrario, called "Get Wavell," if you KIA Wavell, you get 2,000 points. His HQ units are 500 points each and far exceed the value of the hexes. Bottom line: Now it works so in future scenarios or battles you will see that in action. Finally... Thanks Gentlemen! Nice comments (Thank you!), good suggestions (written down) and great encouragement. The entire MCNA team thanks you all for enjoying our handiwork. Wild Bill

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- 7/14/2001 2:24:00 AM

dfsrusa

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From: St. Paul, Minnesota
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Wild Bill and others on the MC team, Great Job! Its awesome. So for I've done these scenarios: Stop the train - moderate victory Hit the reinforcements in the flank - moderate victory Search and destroy the SAS - decisive victory Get Wavell - moderate victory Defend the highway - moderate victory I'm currently assaulting Agedibia (sp?) I knew I wouldn't be able to do the search and destroy raids with C&C on, so I've played with it off the whole campaign. I really liked the get Wavell scenario. I had him and his staff surrounded and kept pounding them. But then they disappeared. No, disperse message or surrender. I really like the smaller battle options. Right now I'm assaulting with a large force, I've got 4 onboard 75s and 4 halftrack 81 mm mortars, but no FO, which would be nice to have. You all ought to be promoted! Scot Stephenson

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- 7/14/2001 8:05:00 AM

11Bravo

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quote:

Originally posted by Wild Bill: 11Bravo, did you get the fix? I did send it.

Nope, not yet. If it doesn't show up, I will request it when I get to that scenio. Thanks.

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- 7/14/2001 8:11:00 AM

Wild Bill

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The "fix" for MCNA will be posted this weekend on Fabio's site. Just unzip and put directly into the SPWAW\MegaCam\The Desert Fox-41 directory. It will fix the "Stiffening Resistance" scenario (#2 or 3, depending on how you play) WB

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- 7/14/2001 8:12:00 AM

Wild Bill

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Thanks Scot! That is a very encouraging post on your part and the rest of you. Thanks for this fine feedback. It helps a lot! WB

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Post #: 21

- 7/16/2001 1:56:00 AM

A_B

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From: San Jose, CA
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quote:

Some of you have your MCNA. The rest of you will be receiving yours in a matter of days. I'm interested in hearing some feedback on the scenarios themselves. It would be good to know if you found them winnable but difficult...how difficult? Are they interesting? Do they seem fair? Do they have a historical flavor. Notice if you will that the designer's name is in the bottom right hand corner of the scenario. Thus you can write him directly if you wish about the battle he has designed. I've got listening ear and an open mind (open does not mean vacant ). Fire away! Wild Bill

Wild Bill & MCNA Team, I'm on 'The Slowdow'. I've taken the direct path the entire way so far. The battles are definately winnable, especially the defensive ones. They are interesting - the historical flavor is definatley there. The maps are really excellent. I like the way the terrain dictates the battle location - fighting for a mountain pass, or between the ocean and the escarpment. The Opfor set ups are realistic - tricky without being unrealistic. A couple criticisms; The British attacks (in defensive battles) lack weight. Once you destroy the first wave, it is over. I havn't had a defensive/meeting battle yet that the defense was really tested. I would consider myself a good player, which brings up another topic? Is is possible to have a more 'difficult' path for more experienced players, which give more 'points'? That way different abilities could enjoy the MC. I've heard some say it is too hard. It would be for me if i were just learning the game. Right now, the battles all seem 'medium', in order to please the most players - an understandable position unless you can offer the choice. My only complaint is that i can't pick the core force. Yes, i know it isn't realistic/historical, but it is the most fun part of a campaign. It is the one thing that is making me loose interest in the MC. It is more like a series of scenario's, rather than a campaign. I can't even 'name' my units and have the name carry from battle to battle. What is MC Three going to be? I'm guessing you are working on it already. My vote is for a US or Russian Campaign. NA & Sicily would be interesting. The invasion of S. France would as well. Kursk (including leadup & aftermath) from the russian standpoint might be good to. PS. What is matrix's position on using the maps and the battles from the mega campaign for other battles/campaigns? I'm sure it is all copyrighted material, but could we use it after a period of time, say when the MCNA stops selling? Thanks !

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- 7/16/2001 2:43:00 AM

davidmiller

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WB, I love the campaign so far. I have 8 decisive and 6 draws with up to game 13 having a campaign score of 40 and then game 14 with a decisive win, having a score of 38. What happened?? Would that perhapes be because of me losing my staff to an airstrike during the 14th battle?? (No rest for the Weary) All in all, I find the campaign very enjoyable. True, I have the the worse problems with the 2lb AT guns and the Matilda II's. In the Searching for the Enemy scenario, I lost 8 afv's in a row to the same 57mm field gun. That particular gun don't miss and this was all on the same turn. He took out about a third of my total losses. I wish to thank you, your playtesters, the Matrix team and the people on the forum for making this a very enjoyable experience and also a learning tool during my time on the computer and for putting out a first class wargame with outstanding help which has been given anytime . You have my support and my money for all future games. Keep up with the mega campaigns. Thanks all.

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- 7/16/2001 2:59:00 AM

Don

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A_B, the thing about the British attacks is that, as a designer, it is very hard to make the AI attack well and make it challenging without just throwing huge numbers in there. So we try to do it with timing and reinforcements, a few suprises, etc. but what it comes down too is the AI is very predictable and very limited in what it can do. Plus we couldn't have all German-attack scenarios! :D

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- 7/16/2001 5:29:00 AM

Wild Bill

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I am very greatful for these fine reports and critiques of the Desert Fox MC. All of this will help us in the future. I truly hope we can do more. Assembling a Mega Campaign is a lot of work...a LOT of work. The end product is so much fun that it is well worth it. I've made notes of all your comments, suggestions and criticisms. Your positive spirit in presenting them is much appreciated. Again, my thanks personally and on the part of the MCNA team. Wild Bill

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Post #: 25

- 7/16/2001 5:34:00 AM

A_B

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Don, I know i'm being nit-picky, and i'm very early in the campaign. On a few of the early battles, the brit starting positions were tricky, but i was able to discover them with aggressive recon - battle #5 or so (don't remember the name) was typical. It was a meeting engagement along a road. There was a brit column coming in from an unexpected but realistic location (don't want to give it away for people who haven't played it). Because it started on the map, and moved on turn one, i spotted it. If it came in on turn 10 or so, i may have missed it, and would have made things a bit more interesting. The only thing i'm disappointed with is not being able to pick a core, and especially being able to Name my units. I gave them company/platoon/team names, but it didn't save from game to game :( Overall score so far 97%

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Post #: 26

- 7/16/2001 5:37:00 AM

Wild Bill

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Duly noted. Some good points. In case we do more, I'll suggest these changes. I believe you said you had not tried any of the alternates. They might surprise you. Give 'em a try later,A-B. Fantastic score, by the way! ..Wild Bill

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Post #: 27

- 7/18/2001 3:22:00 AM

A_B

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OK, the MC is definatley starting to grow on me. I'm almost over having the core force picked for me. It definately speeds play up to not worry about upgrading or initial placement. I just finished Antelat (sp). Got a strong draw, close to a marginal. Great map, horrendous defenses, feel sorry for the poor bloody infantry. I think i'll try the seaborne invasion of tobruk, if they have one. I don't want to try and dig the australians out of their defenses. 6.1, infantry, suppression, kills, etc. seems to make the whole thing more realistic - my perception of realistic anyway. I can't turn C/C on though, it crashes the game everytime. Even if i delete the stell.prf file. You know, these battles could be turned into a regular campaign or two. You could have the regular track, and then the special-ops track. The only advantage would be the core force choice, and upgrades. Something to consider once the purchase life is over.

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Post #: 28

- 7/18/2001 7:45:00 AM

Paul Vebber

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Are you running NT or WIN2000? We know CC crashes those and don't have a clue why...

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Post #: 29

- 7/19/2001 4:10:00 AM

mao

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Feedback. The things I hate are the things I really love. Trying to destroy Matilda IIs :mad: , advancing through minefields under fire :mad: - fun stuff. I guess my only complaint (I am about 10-12 scenarios in) is there is a LOT of 'advance from left to right through the minefields and attack the town while under fire with limited arty or air support' type of scenarios - but that may just be due to my choice of scenarios. Oh, and I want more arty support :( And I think I should have received a promotion or something for killing Wavell...

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