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Administrative strain and Truck Stops?

 
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Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 5/29/2021 6:03:58 AM   
minimen456

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2021
Status: offline 		I've read in the manual when there is an asset more than 6 hex away from a city, administrative strain appears.
Does it mean if I build a Truck Stop for my logistics as usual in 10 hex away there will be a dreadful administrative strain? Where I can see it? I want to make sure It's not too high 'cause of all those Track Stop assets


< Message edited by minimen456 -- 5/29/2021 6:11:48 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 5/29/2021 8:49:52 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		Administrative strain is based on Levels + Number of near assets, vs Levels + Numbers of far assets.
Also, below 10% Admin strain has no impact at all.

Asuming that is your Capitol with a lot of high level assets, one truckstop at 10 will not kill efficiency.

(in reply to minimen456)
Post #: 2
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 5/29/2021 9:02:31 AM   
minimen456

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2021
Status: offline 		The formula for Administrative Strain is: (For Each Asset Beyond Distance
(((Distance-6)/6) * Asset level * production%) / (All Other Assets * Asset
Level * production%)
In the above calculation, Private Assets count for half of that of Public Assets.
But I kinda forgot the math I learned in school so if the game could calculate it for me it would be helpful.

< Message edited by minimen456 -- 5/29/2021 9:03:58 AM >

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 3
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 5/29/2021 3:52:52 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: minimen456

The formula for Administrative Strain is: (For Each Asset Beyond Distance
(((Distance-6)/6) * Asset level * production%) / (All Other Assets * Asset
Level * production%)
In the above calculation, Private Assets count for half of that of Public Assets.
But I kinda forgot the math I learned in school so if the game could calculate it for me it would be helpful.

It does the display Administrative Strain. Not sure where precisely, but I saw it definitely.

(in reply to minimen456)
Post #: 4
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/1/2021 7:18:08 AM   
Moat_Man

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/17/2013
Status: offline 		Select the zone capital city. Click on the Zone tab at the bottom. Click on the Regular Zone button. Admin strain is listed in the left panel.


(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 5
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/1/2021 11:56:43 AM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?

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RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/1/2021 8:21:20 PM   
deoved

 

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Joined: 5/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?
Dont you think it would be counterintuitive?

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Post #: 7
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/1/2021 8:33:48 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		The issue is that (unless you do the math yourself) you don't know in advance at what % it's going to set in in the end, and it's easy to forget to check later.

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/1/2021 8:34:05 PM >

(in reply to deoved)
Post #: 8
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/2/2021 11:40:47 PM   
Zanotirn

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 3/12/2021
Status: offline 		Admin strain has no effect at values below 10% though. If your city has a few assets in 6-range, a single-level asset outside of it likely won't bring you above 10%. So you only need to check it when building more/upgrading assets outside of 6-range.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 9
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/3/2021 1:00:39 PM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?


quote:

ORIGINAL: deoved

quote:

Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?
Dont you think it would be counterintuitive?

Early experience showed that even a 1% reduction can delay buildings by a whole turn, making small reductions excessively impactfull.

As a result, penalties like Admin Strain were changed to something like "X% chance per turn to apply a -25% penalty", with some grace zone for realy low values.

(in reply to deoved)
Post #: 10
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/3/2021 1:16:32 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		You might be confusing with the Eternity Movement cult production penalty..? I'm not even sure that Administrative Strain has an impact on construction ?

Also, as of v1.07.06-v1.08.05 this is still a problem for workers : lacking a mere 100-200 workers for assets producing 1 point or 1 item will result in an effective -100% reduction of output (1 to 0). And since it's hard to predict how many workers you'll be able to recruit next turn...

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Post #: 11
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/3/2021 1:22:27 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Joined: 6/9/2020
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Also, as of v1.07.06-v1.08.05 this is still a problem for workers : lacking a mere 100-200 workers for assets producing 1 point or 1 item will result in an effective -100% reduction of output (1 to 0). And since it's hard to predict how many workers you'll be able to recruit next turn...

It would be easy to just produce 100 units and multiply the consumption by 100 - that way the math stays the same, but it is much less vulnerable to rounding issues like these.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 12
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/3/2021 1:31:22 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Not so easy when it's producing Happiness or Loyalty...

And would make Radioactives feel less valuable if you did it for them.

I was instead thinking that could be re-used the randomization formulas from Profile adjustment, Truck/Buggy/APC recruits, or indeed Eternity Movement cult production penalty.

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Post #: 13
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/3/2021 3:27:58 PM   
zgrssd

 

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Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

Not so easy when it's producing Happiness or Loyalty...

Happiness/Loyalty points:
Every full 100 is +1/turn.
[Excess points]% to get a +1 for anything not a full 100, rolled every turn.



quote:

And would make Radioactives feel less valuable if you did it for them.

If you changed the production, consumption and logistics so that what used to be 1 unit is now 100 units, nothing realy changes - except less rounding issues.

Of course it might be beneficial to have "nuclear fuel" and "nuclear ammunition" as a dedicated resource, that is created from Raw Radioactives at a decent rate.


(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 14
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/6/2021 5:32:02 AM   
Wtface

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/28/2021
Status: offline 		Just track decimals but hide them under the hood.

The random chance thing is however a good way to do it, however.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 15
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/7/2021 8:52:15 AM   
phyroks

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 12/1/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?


Yeah it slowly moves towards its target, made some building and tough it was fine, then noticed later that it was sitting at 32%, took 5 ish turns for it to drop down after the assets were changed.

I usually just pop new town/zone with truck station as it starts off with enough population to keep it running, but I try to get it bit further away

< Message edited by phyroks -- 6/7/2021 8:54:21 AM >

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 16
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/7/2021 10:28:10 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wtface

Just track decimals but hide them under the hood.

The random chance thing is however a good way to do it, however.

The most common solution to the rounding issue is:
1. Take a Integer
2. Move the decimal place during display 3 place sto the right
3. Do not display the last digit at all.

That way we see something like 65.53 as value, when it realy is 65536. Reliable rounding, no need to handle those annoying floating point numbers.


quote:

ORIGINAL: phyroks

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?


Yeah it slowly moves towards its target, made some building and tough it was fine, then noticed later that it was sitting at 32%, took 5 ish turns for it to drop down after the assets were changed.

I usually just pop new town/zone with truck station as it starts off with enough population to keep it running, but I try to get it bit further away

I was told once that if you found a city on a free folk town, all the free folk becomes population automagically.
Never gotten around to test it.

(in reply to Wtface)
Post #: 17
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/7/2021 2:08:49 PM   
minimen456

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/26/2021
Status: offline
quote:

was told once that if you found a city on a free folk town, all the free folk becomes population automagically.

Amazing! Such a profound game design

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 18
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 1:17:49 PM   
deMangler


Posts: 227
Joined: 7/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zgrssd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wtface

Just track decimals but hide them under the hood.

The random chance thing is however a good way to do it, however.

The most common solution to the rounding issue is:
1. Take a Integer
2. Move the decimal place during display 3 place sto the right
3. Do not display the last digit at all.

That way we see something like 65.53 as value, when it realy is 65536. Reliable rounding, no need to handle those annoying floating point numbers.


quote:

ORIGINAL: phyroks

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Also, be careful, I think that the increase is gradual rather than immediate ?


Yeah it slowly moves towards its target, made some building and tough it was fine, then noticed later that it was sitting at 32%, took 5 ish turns for it to drop down after the assets were changed.

I usually just pop new town/zone with truck station as it starts off with enough population to keep it running, but I try to get it bit further away

I was told once that if you found a city on a free folk town, all the free folk becomes population automagically.
Never gotten around to test it.

I just had an opportunity to test that in my current game.
I built a truck stop on a free-folk community and then created a zone from that.
Next turn there is a town there named after the previous community, which is still there but with a slightly reduced population. In the Zone News there is no mention of free folk from that community immigrating, and the zone population matches immigration from other places. However the free folk community no longer has a name - it is there as an asset on that hex though.


_____________________________


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Post #: 19
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 2:43:28 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Huh, so where is this myth from ?

(in reply to deMangler)
Post #: 20
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 2:56:12 PM   
deMangler


Posts: 227
Joined: 7/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Huh, so where is this myth from ?

Looking at it three turns later - The population of the now nameless free-folk community is dropping and it is reported in the news that a population increase of my town is increasing that matches. So maybe it happens over time, automatically that settlement will be gone when it gets to 0?

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Post #: 21
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 4:25:57 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Yes, but is it changing faster than if it would if it was in the same Zone but not on the same hex ?

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/8/2021 4:26:17 PM >

(in reply to deMangler)
Post #: 22
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 5:05:47 PM   
deMangler


Posts: 227
Joined: 7/13/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Yes, but is it changing faster than if it would if it was in the same Zone but not on the same hex ?

Need more examples, but now a few more turns later the population has dropped to just 300, while nearby settlements are still looking quite populated.
Something seems different - the fact that the settlement now has no name is one thing.
Anyway - I'll update if it disappears completely.

_____________________________


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Post #: 23
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 7:19:14 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		A good example would be to reload the same game before you colonized, and this time to colonize as far as possible while still able to paint the town inside the same zone.

(in reply to deMangler)
Post #: 24
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 7:44:36 PM   
deMangler


Posts: 227
Joined: 7/13/2013
Status: offline 		Good idea.
I just did that for a few turns - built a new zone with city 5 hexes away from the settlement.
The population of the settlement diminished in a similar fashion to when I built on top of it.

Edit - This was not as far as possible from the town, I didn't read that part of your suggestion in time. Still it shows that there is nothing special about building on it apart from the name dissapearing.


< Message edited by deMangler -- 6/8/2021 7:46:28 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 8:10:45 PM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		5 hexes might have been far enough to see a difference if there was one ?

(Would be nice for it to have been at least 7 hexes - considering the range of Administrative Strain...)

Anyway, thanks for testing it !

(in reply to deMangler)
Post #: 26
RE: Administrative strain and Truck Stops? - 6/8/2021 8:29:57 PM   
deMangler


Posts: 227
Joined: 7/13/2013
Status: offline 		It is a bit late game and things are a little cramped.
I love how there is so much to discover in this game. I will try this experiment about this in a future game.
Currently I am discovering so much depth in late-game intelligence reports and how they are affected by leaders, relations, technologies.... Anyway that is for another thread...

< Message edited by deMangler -- 6/8/2021 8:30:24 PM >

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Post #: 27
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