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Your strategy for Support Units - 6/5/2021 5:32:23 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Hi, how do you deal with Support Units as Germans in the GC ?
Initial setup, locked or not, assignements, assigned to units ? corps HQ ? Army HQ ? etc ..
Would appreciate a few cooking tips on this matter.

Thank you.
Post #: 1
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/5/2021 7:35:00 AM   
jlbhung

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 3/10/2021
Status: offline 		The followings set out my general approach for information -
(a) I will try to give panzer and motorized divisions 3 support units – 1 x Inf/Mech/Mot/SPGuns (in order of priority) + 1 x Pioneer + 1 x AA;
(b) Other support units (except construction units) after meeting demand of (a) above will be evenly distributed to corps HQs;
(c) Army HQs will generally be assigned 1xAA, battalion size or larger. My consideration is that these HQs are often co-located with important frontline depots;
(d) construction type support units – 1 to 2 units in Corps HQs, others mainly in Army and Army Group HQs;
(e) a few support units of each type are kept in OKH as replacements for depleted support units. OKH will be placed in a NSS so that support units could be refit very quickly if necessary; and
(f) all the HQs are locked.

I play against the AI only. So I usually use the Editor to do the re-distribution of support units before starting a game. This is to save the effort of having to carry out the re-distribution again when restarting the scenario.

I am also interested in how other players handle their support units.


< Message edited by jlbhung -- 6/5/2021 9:00:55 AM >

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 2
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/5/2021 9:56:30 AM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline 		My games are set up with Locked HQs.

Arty- I tend to give Infantry Corps 3 Arty Bns of different types so that they all have some firepower. For Corps in quiet sectors i assign only 2 Arty Bns. You dont get quiet sectors till things start slowing down around end of August/start of September though. Assault Infantry Corps are usually beefed up with another 2 Arty Bns or Werfer Bns. Motorized Corps will get 4 Arty Bns and maybe 1 Werfer Bn.

Flak- Each Infantry Corps will get at least 1 Flak Bn to give them some AA cover and also provide some firepower against Soviet Armor. The LW Mixed Bns have Flak 88s which help. Panzer Corps will get around 2-3 AA Bns and i also tend to assign a SP Flak Bn or Company for each Panzer/Motorized Division. This helps against Soviet Air Interdiction. Army HQs sitting on depots will also get some AA assets. The rest of the AA goes to the OKH to be called on when needed.

Pioneers- Standart Infantry Corps get 1 Pioneer Bn. Assault Corps will usually take 2 and the same goes for Panzer Corps. The rest goes to either the Army Group or Assault HQ. Some Pioneers will get attached to a division (useful with Motorized or Panzer Divisions) as they are doing more than a few Hasty attacks.

StuGs and SP- These will usually be held at Assault Army HQ or OKH. Usually Assault Infantry Corps and Motorized Corps will get 1 attached to them. Standart Infantry Corps usually dont get any but this depends on the situation.

Panzerjaeger- Panzerjaegers will usually be attached to Corps that are facing a lot of enemy armor or even better attached to divisions themselves. They can do a lot of damaged at the right place at the right time.

Construction- 2 Bns for each Corps except for Assault and Motorized Corps which get only 1 or 0 (they only built forts up to level 1). The rest are attached to the OKH or Army Group. RAD Bns attached to a Corps HQ positioned in a location that can help lateral repairs of rail line.

Some things to keep in mind:

-Try to avoid moving SUs around a lot. Each time their HQ is changed they lose 50% of their CPP and also get an Admin penalty for the turn. Best thing to do is set up most of your Corps with what they will have for the campaign and only make changes when needed.

-Using the following set up you are making sure that you are not overcommiting your SUs. 95% of the time a HQ will not be in a position to commit more than 6 SUs (which rarely happens), the exception being Light Urban and Heavy Urban battles where you can commit a lot more. So your standart 3 Arty, 1 Flak, 1 Pioneer set up will do the job just fine.

-SUs also use supply so consider cutting down on SUs in Corps that are in a bad supply situation. Heavy Artillery for example needs around 44 tonnes of ammo while a Werfer Bn only needs 25. Stick "light" SUs to Corps in bad supply situations and move the heavies where the situation is better.

-Pay attention to the TOEs or morale values. StuGs and Panzerjaeger formations tend to get low on TOE pretty fast. Consider rotating them to the OKH so they build up again before sending them into battle. A 10% TOE StuG Bn doesnt do you much good at the front.

Hope this helps!




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(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 3
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/5/2021 10:43:09 AM   
speedyglides

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2015
Status: offline 		How do you keep track where they are and where they should go? Do you use the CR or use any kind of external mean to keep track of it?

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 4
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/5/2021 12:01:34 PM   
MultiPurposeCanine

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2020
Status: offline 		I do minimum per inf corps 3 artys bats, works for me good so far.

< Message edited by MultiPurposeCanine -- 6/5/2021 12:02:13 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/5/2021 7:39:21 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		Thank you guys, very useful. Exactly what I needed.
So starting from the initial SUs distribution created by the scenario developer, do you set all your HQ to lock or "0" and then rearrange all HQs/units one by one or do you keep the initial setup and fine tune according your needs, as described above ?

I saw that "Strategy Gaming Dojo", in his great tutorial suggests to put all HQs to zero and to run a few turns to push all SUs up their chain of command and ultimately to OKH for Germans. Then he sets all Hi-command HQs (OKH, Rumanian, Hungarian, Italian, etc) to suppL = 9. Then he distributes all SUs according to his needs on the battlefield.
Not sure this is efficient ... An other option would be to re-distribute from the initial setup. But if , as said above, it costs CPP to transfer subunits, then I'm not sure that Dojo's method is OK.

See Dojo's explanation @ 23'20''
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z857RXLyByc&list=PLSgMOSrhbsUbWBgDCap_b6ol57gYcs_8J&index=5


(in reply to MultiPurposeCanine)
Post #: 6
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/6/2021 10:10:34 AM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline 		@speedyglides: Generally at the start there are some Corps or Armies that carry a lot of SUs (such as XII Corps, VIII Corps, 1st Panzer Group subordinate HQs etc). You can see this in the CR when you filter by SUs.

What I will do is transfer the SUs to nearby Corps that are empty or lacking SU so that they start fitting the standart SU set up. Whatever is left over gets send to the OKH or the AG. I do this on T1 and that fixes around 70% of what I want. On T2 I will fill up the remaining Corps. This fixes around 95% of what I want. The rest that is left over gets sorted out on T3. After that I tend to not move SUs around a lot only when the need arises.

@nukkxx5058: I keep my HQs on lock and go through some clicking myself. You could do what SGD suggest but I think that takes a lot longer. For me, doing around 30 minutes of moving SUs around is worth it, if it means that by the start of T3 I have basically sorted out my whole Army composition. The CPP cost is there but it is not that important in my eyes. In the first 2 turns as the Germans you will probably win every combat you engage in.



< Message edited by xhoel -- 6/6/2021 10:12:51 AM >

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(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 7
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/6/2021 12:03:25 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I would also be conservative attaching non-motorized SUs to motorized formations. Each time you do that the unit will draw trucks. If you have a global truck shortage you probably want to restrict or eliminate this practice.

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Post #: 8
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/6/2021 12:45:30 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline 		@jlbhung @xhoel Thank you guys. Very useful. This will totally change the way I play WITE2.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 9
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/6/2021 1:12:33 PM   
Starway


Posts: 15
Joined: 5/16/2021
From: Bielefeld, Germany
Status: offline 		If you place SUs in armies or army groups, they won't go into battles, will they? (If you have the classic hierarchy. Div <- Corps <- Army <- Army Group)
Then is there a reason to position it there?

< Message edited by Starway -- 6/6/2021 1:13:47 PM >

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 10
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/6/2021 5:46:35 PM   
xhoel


Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline 		@nukkxx5058: You are welcome, glad I could help!

@Starway: Yes that is correct. The reason for keeping some SUs there is to give you flexibility when you need them. For example if I am keeping all my StuGs at Army Group level, I can assign them to any Corps under that AG and to any division too.

If I had those StuGs in X Corps for example and wanted to attach one of them to a division of V Corps, i couldnt do that directly, i would need to transfer to Corps level first. If V Corps was far away from X Corps, then I would also have to move the HQ in range to transfer the SU. Keeping them at a higher level allows for more flexibility.

< Message edited by xhoel -- 6/6/2021 6:58:04 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Starway)
Post #: 11
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/6/2021 7:16:17 PM   
Starway


Posts: 15
Joined: 5/16/2021
From: Bielefeld, Germany
Status: offline 		Thank you xhoel. That makes sense.

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 12
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/7/2021 9:02:40 AM   
speedyglides

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 10/1/2015
Status: offline 		@xhoel I know. I do the same but in order to keep track of it and make a meaningful distribution it is important to know not only the total number, but the type of SUs. I use a hand made Excel, which is somewhat cumbersome but helps me deal with it.

I was wondering if there is an in game way, more or less efficient, to deal with SUs types thing.

< Message edited by speedyglides -- 6/7/2021 9:04:25 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/7/2021 9:42:11 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		not really, but you can export any page from the Commander's report to excel, that can be handy as a 1 off planning tool as you can readily review and annotate your intended redistribution.

not so much about assignment but worth remembering that come the 1941-2 winter a lot of SUs will end up back in OKH in any case. You might as well pull your Stugs in late November (they will just take attrition losses) and then anything that goes to low TOE. Come March 42 this can give you a pool that you can re-assign readily to meet your summer priorities

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Post #: 14
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/7/2021 10:47:05 PM   
Rattiratto

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 6/5/2021
Status: offline 		Any specifics for the Soviet side?

I guess we can make a comparison as long as you are attacking.

I am wondering however on the effectiveness of the artillery on the defense with the ammunition malus

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 15
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/8/2021 7:51:50 AM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
[...]but you can export any page from the Commander's report to excel

Brilliant ! I didn't know that.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 16
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/8/2021 7:54:06 PM   
Starway


Posts: 15
Joined: 5/16/2021
From: Bielefeld, Germany
Status: offline 		Over which distances (in hex fields) can you transfer SUs?
That seems to depend on the level of the HQ. And about whether they are under the same HHQ. Correct?

(in reply to nukkxx5058)
Post #: 17
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/9/2021 5:15:49 AM   
Hardradi


Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Another question, playing Velikie Luki scenario, I cannot seem to transfer any Artillery SU directly to Infantry Divisions or even an Infantry Corps. Other SU transfers works fine. Is this right?

EDIT: As the Soviets. It works fine with Axis.

< Message edited by Hardradi -- 6/9/2021 5:16:37 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/9/2021 7:17:21 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		you can't attach artillery SUs to combat units, they can only be in the HQ.

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Post #: 19
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/9/2021 11:56:22 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		You can attach SP Artillery though, which may be why Hardradi says that it can be done with the Axis but not the Soviets at this time.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 20
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/9/2021 2:39:40 PM   
Hardradi


Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		No, loki is right. I just checked and I am losing it. Axis can't either.

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Post #: 21
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/9/2021 3:18:49 PM   
msf567

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 4/22/2021
Status: offline 		How do you send support units from a corp to their commanding HQ?

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Post #: 22
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/9/2021 8:23:58 PM   
nukkxx5058


Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: msf567

How do you send support units from a corp to their commanding HQ?


In the Commander Report (or in the counter card by right clicking the card) you set the Corps HQ so SuppL = 0 and next time you will click end turn, during the end turn calculations(logistic phase) the SU will be automatically transfered up the command chain.

< Message edited by nukkxx5058 -- 6/9/2021 8:24:26 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Your strategy for Support Units - 6/10/2021 12:59:08 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Or open up the Corps HQ detail window - go to the Assigned tab - and then hit the x by the unit name.

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Post #: 24
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