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Trigger for Kamikaze attacks

 
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Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 8:44:03 AM   
Hano

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/5/2009
Status: offline 		I'm in Jun 44 having run the Pearl Harbour onwards scenario, I've been starting to attract Kamikaze attacks, what is the trigger for this in the game, is it:

Time

Quality of/lack of quality of Japanese airforce

Proximity of invasion forces to homeland

Something else

Combination of all
Post #: 1
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 9:20:31 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Read Alfred's Kamikaze 101 Guide

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 6/15/2021 5:57:07 PM >

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Post #: 2
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 3:59:27 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Time (1944), and proximity (in hexes) to certain key Japanese owned bases triggers the conversion of air groups to "useless sacrifice mode".

The distance stated the manual is not correct; it is actually 150% of the stated distance. The 60nm hexes were changed to 40nm.

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RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 4:31:54 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Read the Kamikaze 101 Guide.

Alfred

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Post #: 4
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 5:35:24 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		This is a map that I picked up on one of the threads that show the southern part of the activation area.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 9:31:33 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

s7.4.2.3 of the manual.


IIRC that was changed a long time ago. Let me see if I can find the file where it exists and get back to you.


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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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Post #: 6
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 9:35:42 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		As Alfred said its in here...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4812512&mpage=1&key=kamikaze%2C101%2Cguide&#

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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Post #: 7
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/14/2021 11:53:30 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

As Alfred said its in here...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4812512&mpage=1&key=kamikaze%2C101%2Cguide&#


quote:

Alfred

2.1 Conditions for availability of the Kamikaze Attack air mission

The formal Kamikaze Attack air mission will not become available before 1 January 1944. After that date the option for the Japanese player to convert standard air units to kamikaze status becomes available if the Allied player owns a base 20 sea hexes or less from Tokyo, Takao or Saigon. Note that as originally released and referred to in section 7.4.2.3 of the manual, AE retained the classical WITP trigger range of 15 hexes. That was an oversight which had not taken into account the changed hex size in AE. The oversight was corrected in patch #2 of December 2009.

There are two important limitations on what qualifies as a triggering Allied base. To qualify the Allied base must:

• not be located in China or Tibet (nationality codes 70 and 71 respectively)
• contain an air field which is sized level 1 or greater

There is no requirement for the Allied base to have been previously captured by Japan and subsequently recaptured by the Allies. Nor is it limited only to bases which were Allied controlled at the start of the scenario. Prior to Soviet activation, Soviet nationality bases (nationality code 90) are not checked for triggering purposes.

Once the Kamikaze Attack air mission becomes available there is no requirement that the initial triggering base remains under Allied control.


_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 8
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 12:41:41 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I'm counting 22 hexes on that map, which would correspond to a 50% increase over the manual (15 hexes plus 7.5 hexes).

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Post #: 9
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 7:51:06 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
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From: Cammeraygal Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

I'm counting 22 hexes on that map, which would correspond to a 50% increase over the manual (15 hexes plus 7.5 hexes).


That is what I thought it was, but it could be an increase to 133.33%. Contiguous sea or coastal only, for clarity. Having said that, I agree that the hexes north of Billiton are also 21 hexes from Saigon. On the other hand, the hex north east of Palembang is 21 hexes from Saigon as well, and is not included. The line across the Sulu Sea south east of Puerto Princessa is 20 from Takao, but Bay Bay (Leyte)is 21.

May just be some map errors.

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Post #: 10
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 5:02:03 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		I always thought that it would be a fascinating mod to enable broader and or earlier Japanese use of the divine wind. The pacific war would have been a much tougher slog if they appeared in early '43!!

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Post #: 11
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 5:57:51 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

As Alfred said its in here...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4812512&mpage=1&key=kamikaze%2C101%2Cguide&#


Quite correct, mea culpa, edited.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 12
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 6:13:11 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

I always thought that it would be a fascinating mod to enable broader and or earlier Japanese use of the divine wind. The pacific war would have been a much tougher slog if they appeared in early '43!!


The Japanese did not need them then plus they had trained air crews.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 13
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 6:51:56 PM   
fcooke

 

Posts: 1156
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Boston, London, Hoboken, now Warwick, NY
Status: offline 		And the Kamis were a one hot deal. The Japanese would have run out planes pretty quickly.

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Post #: 14
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/15/2021 10:46:06 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Kamikazes need to be in place waiting for the targets to show up. Pretty hard to do when you have zero intelligence and the potential invasion targets haven't been winnowed down to a few. They also can't be set up within range of enemy air superiority fields. Once the Americans know about the tactic it isn't hard to defeat until you get to the home islands when they have to expose their CVs to achieve superiority and the stakes are at the highest.

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Post #: 15
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/16/2021 1:17:19 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

As Alfred said its in here...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4812512&mpage=1&key=kamikaze%2C101%2Cguide&#


Quite correct, mea culpa, edited.


No biggie, we all goof on occasion.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 16
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/17/2021 12:39:26 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Okay some links for the pictures:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4451591

Which is post #4 on this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4451560&mpage=1&key=�

then:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4516345

which is post #29 oh this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2617899

which has a link to this picture:

https://i.imgur.com/GojbwFr.jpeg

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/17/2021 1:45:02 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		The answer is "under 21":

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

Excludes Chinese national hexes.

The range was changed to under 21 hexes due to the map scale change in build 1092. It was forgotten on release as 15 was from stock.


Post #3

Edit: additional information which applies some FOW to whether it's 21 or 20:

quote:

Base must have an AF 1+. This would exclude the 'dot' bases unless they are built up.
There is no limitation such that the base has to have been occupied by the Japanese and re-captured.

If the base is in range (21 sea hexes) of TOKYO (base #252), TAKAO (base #330) or SAIGON (base #435), is not located in China/Tibet and controlled by Allied player and 1944+, then the kamikazes (converting groups to kamikaze mode,as distinct from the occasional plane turning into a kamikaze prior to 1944 due to damage) are activated.


< Message edited by Ian R -- 6/17/2021 1:53:18 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/17/2021 2:31:15 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		So don't capture Taytay and leave the unit pushed out of the other base on the island alone and that should provide the requirement for the kamikaze activation.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 19
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/17/2021 2:39:52 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So don't capture Taytay and leave the unit pushed out of the other base on the island alone and that should provide the requirement for the kamikaze activation.


It has zero AF level, so no, not if the allied player turns off airfield building.

_____________________________

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Post #: 20
RE: Trigger for Kamikaze attacks - 6/17/2021 3:02:24 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

So don't capture Taytay and leave the unit pushed out of the other base on the island alone and that should provide the requirement for the kamikaze activation.


It has zero AF level, so no, not if the allied player turns off airfield building.


My mistake, I don't have my game open but that is the idea if a Japanese player wants to use it.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 21
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