RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!)

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RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 2:30:24 AM

mroyer

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After a year of playing SE, I still run into situations with the logistics system I simply can't sort out.

For example, in the following image on the left of the initial logistics, the truck station is generating 760 truck points. Yet, only 99 are being deployed to road hexes in each direction - where are the other 554 points?

If I preview the next turn (image to the right), I see the entire 760 in the hex and a combined 759 (617+142) in east/west road hexes. But, those are top numbers; bottom numbers show only 91. What do the top and bottom numbers indicate and why is the bottom so much less?

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.
-Mark R.

Edit: It works out that the 99 points are from another remote truck station, and the highlighted station isn't deploying any points despite generating 760!
Edit: we're playing v1.09.00 (no beta, in-case there are known issues with that version)

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< Message edited by mroyer -- 6/12/2021 10:42:12 AM >

(in reply to Soar_Slitherine)

Post #: 31

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 3:26:32 AM

mroyer

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And, here's another perplexing situation.

Despite my rail between Intervale (SHQ S-1) and Verdun (SHQ S-2) having no less than 2783 rail points in any hex between the two HQ, the transfer trajectory between the two SHQ's only allows for 222 points. How is this calculated? I thought it'd be the full 2783.

< Message edited by mroyer -- 6/12/2021 3:27:53 AM >

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Post #: 32

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 8:16:02 AM

BlueTemplar

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quote:

Edit: It works out that the 99 points are from another remote truck station, and the highlighted station isn't deploying any points despite generating 760!

What was the state of the truck station the previous turn and what happens the next turn ?

(in reply to mroyer)

Post #: 33

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 10:47:44 AM

mroyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

quote:

Edit: It works out that the 99 points are from another remote truck station, and the highlighted station isn't deploying any points despite generating 760!

What was the state of the truck station the previous turn and what happens the next turn ?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'state' - as far as I can tell the truck station is and was a operating normally (albeit delegated to another zone) at about 95% efficiency. The right-hand preview image (two posts ago) shows that for the next turn the same is expected (i.e., it will generate 760 truck points but deploy none).

-Mark R.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)

Post #: 34

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 11:06:51 AM

BlueTemplar

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I'm afraid that you'll have to post up save(s) for us to take a look at them.

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/12/2021 11:07:37 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 11:21:58 AM

mroyer

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At the penalty of disclosing 100% perfect intelligence to my opponents (this is a multiplayer game) below is a link to the most recent .se1 game file.
I really need to figure out what is going on as it is crushing operations on my eastern frontier.
(Thanks BlueTemplar for looking!)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/csrmi7xo9gljclk/Onela%20Geminio_Round51_Intervale.se1?dl=0

< Message edited by mroyer -- 6/12/2021 11:22:36 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 4:43:16 PM

BlueTemplar

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You could have sent it passworded, and the password by PM ?

Otherwise it's up to the honor system I guess, or ask for every other player to post his open save, for fairness...

----

Yeah, sadly, with it being an MP game, I am unable to experiment by changing things and running a turn...

You should probably make two bug reports ?

My 2nd guess for the first one would be issues with asset delegation,
EDIT : Are you *really sure* that this truck station hasn't been completed last turn ?

and for the second issue the game wrongly using a shorter route with less points ? (But why 3 logipoints when none of the routes has that left ? And why are *you* seeing 222 ?)

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/12/2021 4:55:06 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 6:30:42 PM

mroyer

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quote:

You could have sent it passworded, and the password by PM ?

Doh... coulda' shoulda' didn't think of it.

----

quote:

You should probably make two bug reports ?

Yes, I'll do that. I really appreciate your providing a second pair of eyes. I really didn't want to post it as a potential bug if it was just something obvious I'd overlooked.

quote:

My 2nd guess for the first one would be issues with asset delegation,
EDIT : Are you *really sure* that this truck station hasn't been completed last turn ?

yes, I'm sure. It's actually happening to two truck stations (both delegated), but I only posted about one. Also, I've played another turn and it hasn't resolved - my armies are beginning to starve...

-Mark R

< Message edited by mroyer -- 6/12/2021 6:34:00 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 10:42:49 PM

finrodfelagund

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imgur/a/7zbtSsV

I don't know why there are bottlenecks so close to SHQ. Tried rerouting(obviously) but cannot solve it and all that logistics produced by my capital gets wasted in those bottlenecks.

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< Message edited by finrodfelagund -- 6/12/2021 10:45:49 PM >

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RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/12/2021 10:55:11 PM

BlueTemplar

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Most likely : the far away logipoint generators running out of AP ?

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Post #: 40

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/13/2021 1:34:12 AM

finrodfelagund

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Interesting, but why far away logpts would affect SHQ output ? The SHQ itself does not seem to be pushing much logpts :/ Could have provided a savegame but can't post links because of 10 message limit...

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Post #: 41

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/13/2021 9:09:50 AM

BlueTemplar

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Because (for a single path) it's the weakest link that matters.

(in reply to finrodfelagund)

Post #: 42

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/13/2021 3:25:11 PM

finrodfelagund

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There are no weak links. Every city is connected with rails but even though I have enough stockpile SHQ has problems with supplying my capital with resources. Savegame in link.

drive.google dot com/file/d/1DcrJos106yk58_We0ztYUqSF-3DtI09R/view

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Post #: 43

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/14/2021 12:34:28 AM

BlueTemplar

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Ok, this is puzzling for me too, and when I thought that I had the logistic system figured out !

You have about 25k (Preview) pull points across your cities.
Yet, the SHQ location isn't getting any for some reason ?! (No wonder that the links to the selected hex next to it show as black in bottleneck view...)
Worse, even when I set up 30k pull points, like in this picture, the amounts don't change ??

(For some reason, looking at the crossroads, among the rail stations only a single one is sending its points to the capital ?? And it's not like they have excessive AP and/or branching issues...)

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< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/14/2021 12:38:59 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/14/2021 7:05:19 AM

finrodfelagund

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Hmmm, it got more interesting! Every new game is not only a new world but also mechanics work in a different way. Were you able to deliver reinforcements when you did your magic ?

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Post #: 45

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/14/2021 10:40:11 AM

BlueTemplar

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Yeah, looks like I have a related issue in my game... (description & pics later, I'm short on time)

The game just seems to assume that most of your logipoints are going to be emanating from the SHQ ?
This doesn't work so well in a complex grid of cities each with a rail station (noobtrap !)

So the workaround seems to be that you should *never* have a logipoint generator to branch out into another city(�) before going through the SHQ ?
(Sorry if the guide had already pointed this out...)

(�) City because rural assets and units are unlikely to pull as much logipoints.
Be careful when using artillery, flak, or aircraft with bombs I guess ?

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/14/2021 10:48:36 AM >

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Post #: 46

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/14/2021 3:49:18 PM

BlueTemplar

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Before :

(Ruby is a high speed rail station, the single one in my regime, aside from the 2nd one being built in the Eastern Viewpoint. Keats also has a mothballed regular rail station.)

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< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/14/2021 3:51:26 PM >

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RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/14/2021 3:56:50 PM

BlueTemplar

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Yeah, much better :

In fact I'm going to cancel the HSRail station in Viewpoint East before it starts to get built, and put it in Landsberg instead.

This way I can also (kind of) follow the abovementioned rule for the truck stations for points on roads incoming to Keats from SE and NW, and also save 1 branching !

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< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/14/2021 3:59:52 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/14/2021 5:07:31 PM

BlueTemplar

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Like this :

Yeah, I'm not sure what's up with NE being oversupplied and SW being under-supplied... but at least every item was actually sent out, just some not sent back in...

(The roads NW will have to be non-optimal until the 2nd HSRail gets built and the points sent out, can't seem to do otherwise since the traffic sign settings are set per hex and not per hex edge...)

P.S.: I've also ran into another potential issue :
If I have an airdrop starting from a city in the SW, it doesn't have pull points added for it,
and it also doesn't seem to respect the SHQ Logistics limitations,
resulting in 100% airdrop being delivered, but everything else suffering because of it, including unit supply !

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< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 6/14/2021 5:13:11 PM >

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RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/16/2021 12:31:47 AM

finrodfelagund

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Yeah, looks like I have a related issue in my game... (description & pics later, I'm short on time)

The game just seems to assume that most of your logipoints are going to be emanating from the SHQ ?
This doesn't work so well in a complex grid of cities each with a rail station (noobtrap !)

So the workaround seems to be that you should *never* have a logipoint generator to branch out into another city(�) before going through the SHQ ?
(Sorry if the guide had already pointed this out...)

(�) City because rural assets and units are unlikely to pull as much logipoints.
Be careful when using artillery, flak, or aircraft with bombs I guess ?

I see. I usually create cities in a line to keep the logisctics simple as possible but annexing minors led to shenanigans like this one. I set up a few air bridges and a HS railstation similar to yours, cut the loop and finally I have supply to SHQ. Thanks!

(in reply to BlueTemplar)

Post #: 50

RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/21/2021 9:48:57 PM

finrodfelagund

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hmm I think I broke it, again. moved shq to another city that has west-east outgoing rails, a hs statation that connects through the city but shq refuses to get stuff in... I think time to roll a new planet :(

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RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/22/2021 12:52:26 AM

zgrssd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: finrodfelagund

hmm I think I broke it, again. moved shq to another city that has west-east outgoing rails, a hs statation that connects through the city but shq refuses to get stuff in... I think time to roll a new planet :(

Moving your SHQ is a extremely dangerous operation. If the new place is not up for the Logistics load, you will literally crash your economy.

I guess forming a new SHQ and slowly transfering resources and cities over to it is a safer approach.

(in reply to finrodfelagund)

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RE: Yet another logistics tutorial (questions welcome!) - 6/22/2021 2:15:31 PM

BlueTemplar

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I'd guess that very few people *actually* did this, you might have stumbled on a real bug ?

(Still, kind of hard to tell without screenshots and/or saves...)

(in reply to zgrssd)

Post #: 53