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Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/23/2021 11:48:14 AM

Cherusker

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Joined: 6/23/2021
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Hello,
some time ago I played the scenario "To France(t) What bothered me a lot were the missing headquarters. Now I have started to create and insert headquarters for all units from army groups down to divisions. So far no problem. But now I want to create Army Group A by copying Army Group C and paste it over 4th Army.

But I simply cannot build in the Army Group as an independent formation. Either it becomes the 4th Army or a unit of the Eifelfeste

Can someone explain to me how to proceed in detail to insert formations into the Order of Battle?

Please for dummies in detail.

< Message edited by Cherusker -- 6/23/2021 11:49:29 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/23/2021 12:37:13 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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I have never been able to paste one formation into another formation. Just doesn't seem to work. Work around is to move each unit from one formation into the other individually.

To cut and paste a formation first cut it by right clicking the formation name. Then paste it by right clicking on the formation name you want to paste above. To be sure it worked right you close the force editor. Save the scenario. Then open the scenario anew. Open the force editor and everything should look ok.

When you cut or delete a formation the game will keep that formation name for later use instead of using a generic formation name. So you have to click on the 'display current formation' button and change the name to something of your choosing. For instance if I delete a formation by moving all of it's units into another formation then it will cease to exist. Then if I make a new unit and left click on it in the formation's name column it will give an add or create window. Sometimes you will get an old formation name. That's ok, just rename it in the 'display current formation' window.

It can all get confusing but once you've dealt with it and understand what's going on it gets better. You just have to stick with it. Don't give up. There are lots of people who can help you.

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< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/23/2021 12:39:00 PM >

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/23/2021 12:40:34 PM

Lobster

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There are also options for you here if the force editor is open:

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/23/2021 2:49:03 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherusker

Hello,
some time ago I played the scenario "To France(t) What bothered me a lot were the missing headquarters. Now I have started to create and insert headquarters for all units from army groups down to divisions. So far no problem. But now I want to create Army Group A by copying Army Group C and paste it over 4th Army.

But I simply cannot build in the Army Group as an independent formation. Either it becomes the 4th Army or a unit of the Eifelfeste

Can someone explain to me how to proceed in detail to insert formations into the Order of Battle?

Please for dummies in detail.

What exactly are you doing? There's two options here:
1) copy the source formation and paste it into the target location in the OOB. If this is what you're doing and the new formation "becomes" 4th Army, this is I believe a bug. If you click on any formation in the list, it'll reset the formation names to what they should be. Very confusing, but it works
2) copy the unit, then cut and paste into the target location in the OOB. If you do this, it'll become part of the same formation as the unit you right click on to paste in. So you could e.g. paste the unit onto the last unit in a formation, then cut that last unit and paste it onto the new unit. Now your new unit is the last in the formation. Click the formation name next to the new unit to move it to "Unassigned", then click the same spot again and choose a new formation. Then you're off and away. A side effect to all this is that cutting/pasting the existing unit that was last in the formation will clear its deployment status, so I would actually recommend option 1, even if it's bugged.

As an aside, the absence of higher headquarters is often a deliberate design decision, as including multiple levels of HQs can lead to there being a very large number of HQs on the map proportionate to the number of combat units. In particular, HQs without any subordinate units (which will be the case where you need a whole new formation) will lend themselves readily to being used as light recon units by the player- especially if you give them loads of transport. An Army Group HQ would, in the real world, stay quite a long way back from the action- whilst the player will shove it right to the frontline. You might want to consider leaving the scenario as it is.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 6/23/2021 2:50:20 PM >

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/23/2021 6:52:40 PM

Cherusker

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Golden Delicious: I just created the HQs for the flavor, atmosphere, immersion, however you want to call it. I have to move a lot of counters more, but that is not a problem. I do not think the HQs add supply or provide better combat odds.

I tried the second option. It worked so far, but the units are not in the same formation, even though they share the same formation name. Thx for your help.

Lobster I did not know how to cut a whole formation. Well same like to cut a unit. :) Thx for the help.

< Message edited by Cherusker -- 6/23/2021 6:55:24 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/24/2021 8:21:10 AM

golden delicious

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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherusker

Golden Delicious: I just created the HQs for the flavor, atmosphere, immersion, however you want to call it. I have to move a lot of counters more, but that is not a problem. I do not think the HQs add supply or provide better combat odds.

By having an HQ icon, the HQ will boost the supply recover rate of adjacent, co-operative units. Of course it's possible the HQs don't co-operate with anyone.

As to combat odds, it would depend on the content of the unit.

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/24/2021 4:53:15 PM

Cherusker

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This editor is a pain in the a ...
So inconvenient and user unfriendly. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare it must be to create a scenario from the beginning.

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Post #: 7

RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/24/2021 6:06:29 PM

cathar1244

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@Cherusker

You can also save the scenario as a .gam file in XML format and modify that file (it is text). The modified file can be loaded into the editor and saved as a modified version of the scenario. If you look at one of the .gam files, you'll see how a formation and the unit under it is defined:

<FORMATION ID="186" NAME="United States" PROFICIENCY="80" SUPPLY="90" SUPPORTSCOPE="Army Support" ORDERS="Attack" EMPHASIS="Ignore Losses">
<OBJECTIVES TRACK="1">
<OBJECTIVE ID="1" DESCRIPTION="8,23" X="8" Y="23"/>
<OBJECTIVE ID="2" DESCRIPTION="22,25" X="22" Y="25"/>
</OBJECTIVES>
<OBJECTIVES TRACK="2">
<OBJECTIVE ID="1" DESCRIPTION="22,28" X="22" Y="28"/>
<OBJECTIVE ID="2" DESCRIPTION="26,29" X="26" Y="29"/>
<OBJECTIVE ID="3" DESCRIPTION="29,26" X="29" Y="26"/>
<OBJECTIVE ID="4" DESCRIPTION="31,23 (Berlin)" X="31" Y="23"/>
</OBJECTIVES>
<OBJECTIVES TRACK="3"/>
<OBJECTIVES TRACK="4"/>
<OBJECTIVES TRACK="5"/>
<UNIT ID="219" NAME="US.5 Corp" ICON="Infantry" COLOR="86" SIZE="Corps" EXPERIENCE="veteran" CHARACTERISTICS="20008001" PROFICIENCY="60" READINESS="100" SUPPLY="100" GOINGTOX="8" GOINGTOY="23" EMPHASIS="Limit Losses" STATUS="1" ENTRY="11" REPLACEMENTPRIORITY="0">
<EQUIPMENT ID="1" NAME="US Infantry Unit" NUMBER="100" MAX="100" DAMAGE="0"/>
</UNIT>
</FORMATION>

Cheers

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/24/2021 7:29:11 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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Once you have used the scenario editor for awhile it becomes easier.

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/24/2021 11:27:33 PM

Rescue193

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Once you have used the scenario editor for awhile it becomes easier.

In much the same way as it gets easier to have teeth pulled without anaesthetic.

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/24/2021 11:37:47 PM

rhinobones

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherusker

This editor is a pain in the a ...
So inconvenient and user unfriendly. I can't even begin to imagine what a nightmare it must be to create a scenario from the beginning.

For myself, I find starting from scratch easier. Planning out the OOBs and sketching out deployment prior to editing seems to be a key.

As for existing scenarios, I have found that working with scenario forces (cutting, pasting, copying, et al) can cause the units to become mismatched with their parent formation. The problem is not apparent while working in the force editor, but move to another part of the editor, return and the mismatching becomes obvious. A simple click on the first unit�s formation, in this case the 803 Brandenburg, returns the unit/formation, and all units downstream, to the proper alignment. If you�re having problems with unit deployment or the OOB doesn�t look right, this might be the problem.

Regards

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/25/2021 2:34:03 AM

Lobster

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This bug was brought to Ralphs attention and if I recall he said something about fixing it. The edits are okay in memory. The problem is with the way the changes are displayed. It should display properly immediately without jumping through any hoops. So, okay in memory but a problem with refreshing the UI without forcing a refresh.

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/25/2021 2:54:17 AM

76mm

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This kind of thing should be easy in my XML editor...have you guys tried that that? If you've encountered errors, what are they?

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/25/2021 3:18:10 AM

rhinobones

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

This kind of thing should be easy in my XML editor...have you guys tried that that? If you've encountered errors, what are they?

No, never tried this type of editing using the XML Editor. I'll keep it in mind for later experimentation.

Regards

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/25/2021 8:16:54 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rescue193

In much the same way as it gets easier to have teeth pulled without anaesthetic.

I don't know about that. Having used the editor for over 20 years, when I get in the zone, it's pretty satisfying- provided you're not doing something really tedious like changing the same setting on each of 400 units.

If working on a scenario wasn't pleasant I would do it so much.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 6/25/2021 8:17:31 AM >

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/25/2021 9:47:47 AM

Zovs

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Tom�s xml editor is simply fantastic, you can do tons of edits in minutes that would several long and frustrating hours in the editor. His TOAWXML editor is a must have!

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 6/25/2021 12:00:53 PM

Cherusker

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Wow, now a lot of traffic here.

Hello cathar I have no idea what to do with this or how to use it. Im a computer dummie.

I managed to build in missing AG A. Tried the same way with missing XIV. Korps (so 13th and 29th mot Divisions do not feel alone anymore)

But it does not work. This editor is a mystery. Why I was able to integrate Heeresgruppe A, but working the same way integration of XIV. mot Korps does not work.

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RE: Build in new formations into existing scenario - 7/10/2021 1:03:11 AM

sPzAbt653

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Maybe watch this one if you hadn't:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn4rK_TCQ8
Around the 8 minute mark is some talk about creating New Units and adding them to a Formation.

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