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ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again

 
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ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 11:44:16 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Speedy asked if I wanted to do a singular AAR, or a dual one
I thought if I did a singular one, I could have a short delay and then bug everybody for their wisdom and advice, so please do help me out if you see room for improvement!

I've tried to condense down the information while still being eye pleasing
I will be testing out different methods and improvements as I go a long
Again, improvements and suggestions on how to make the information more accesible and fun for the brain and eyes, very welcome!

Now, onto the exciting pictures
Post #: 1
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 11:47:54 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 11:51:42 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Lunges in AGN and AGC are appreciable, with multiple avenues of pressure, over the next few turns

AGS is another matter
Speedy got unlucky with combat delays and reserve activations so he luckily (For me) stalled quickly and lost quite a few tanks in the process

His AFV losses are good, bar a couple of battles, down in AGS, which is a bit of worry.
I hope the trend of him husbanding his panzers well, does not continue

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 3
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 11:54:02 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 12:02:18 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		In AGN, we open the pocket, remove as many of the guns and support assets, that we can
Then we set up some defences based around Pskov and try to ensure a couple of the dangerous hexes have a 6 inf general, under a corp, are leading them

One bit of RNG has filled me with anxiety
When relocating a corp, a commander was killed and replaced by Vasilevsky, ready to be pocketed if Speedy chooses
I don't know the chances but I lost 4 generals this turn, reallocating HQ's, so if Vasilevsky gets pocketed and dies when I reallocate next turn, the tears shall flow.....

Apart from that, we rail in some drabs of units that were not earmarked for more important theatres and we try to ensure Tallinn
has at least, a modicum of men and aeroplanes

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 12:03:53 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 12:33:42 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		In AGC, we do much of the same, by chain opening a small hole in the pocket
Unfortunately this won't have any impact on Axis strategy in the slightest, it'll slow down no units, rail repair, or panzers

We start setting up what defences we can with 6 inf generals on the landbridge, under corp commanders

One small note, I did a lot of reorg this turn, by turning everything inside the pocket, to the MD HQ's, Kharkov, Archangel, Orel
This means I can get the Western front reorg done a turn earlier, removing a lot of the debuffs on the good generals, for turn 3 land bridge fighting

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 12:35:01 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

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From: England
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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 12:48:16 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		AGS is where all of the major strategic decisions happen this turn

I put SW front on assault, we won't be able to get level 2 forts down here any ways and there are some AMAZING commanders, that are going to be far better used in their corps, with as much CP as possible

Not tried this yet so it might fail horribly, but it seems logical

I am hoping to get some of those panzers to smash into the southern fort line, while I can use them
Everything on refit under SW front, is under the command of a 6 or 7 corp general

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 9
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 5:09:51 PM   
Seminole


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Joined: 7/28/2011
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quote:

I don't know the chances but I lost 4 generals this turn


I started a game against AI this weekend as the Soviets and did that move for all my surrounded HQs on turn 1.

10 generals KIA. Kuznetsov and Golubev will hurt.

I stopped with two left in the Minsk pocket because they were too good to risk and the odds seemed stacked.

I've used it to relocate an HQ around Leningrad early game before trying to build a fort and had someone die.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 10
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 5:46:32 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		I was honestly terrified when I clicked "Reallocate HQ" on his army command, as 3 generals died in AGC and Kunetsov is gonna be an early game cornerstone for western front

He scampered away just fine, with Stavkas blessing
Thank all that is holy

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Post #: 11
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 6/30/2021 6:50:04 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Have to say, that's not a good opening for him. Re-opening the Bialystok pocket is a disaster, with the failure to pin all the forces south of Lvov a close second

It's not easy to immediately pocket them T1, but IMO you have to at least pin the SW Front units south of Lvov and seal them off T2. It's some of the best units in the Red Army, and they need to go away from a German perspective

You have a great start going, I hope it stays competitive at least

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 6/30/2021 6:52:26 PM >

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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 4:34:42 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Yeah, Speedy was aware very quickly, that he needed to take more time for his T2 responses, to try and make up for some mistakes
Will have more to say about that on my T2 AAR reactions and thoughts

The pocket opening at Bialystok was very interesting
I noticed pretty quickly, that you could just disband most every combat unit inside the pocket if you wanted to
I tested it with disbanding 2 fort units, which went straight in to Moscows manpower pool
I stopped any and all disbanding after that, but peeps might wanna think about house ruling that out, until something changes

Yeah, I saw your Lvov opening, gj there
Took me a bit of brain power to match it once I saw it, as I could not figure out how to maximise 2 more MP for the final river crossing from my own AGS openings but, I managed it with lots of testing and head scratches


(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 13
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 11:08:58 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		Non-isolated fort units can always disband. There are no restrictions upon them. Other units must be on a connected rail, four hexes from an enemy unit, and able to entrain and move one hex with their SMP. If the pocket has been formed then none of the rail hexes within the pocket would be connected and no units other than fort units could disband.

Note that the four hex rule may/may not be working in recent versions but the rail and SMP requirements have been.

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Post #: 14
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 2:22:28 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Kind of agreeing unless the game enforces a limit on disbanding a unit - that should not be done when at risk of pocketing or in general by the frontlines.


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Post #: 15
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 2:29:43 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Not sure if it was a version difference then Carlkay which has been fixed nicely now, but I could definitely disband any and all combat units, as long as I moved them 4 hexes from an enemy unit

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 16
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 7:17:18 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
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Status: offline 		I think there was a version when it was broke and then the next version fixed it.

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Post #: 17
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 8:08:19 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn 2

AGN presumptions
Neither of us are prioritising Leningrad, as of yet, so not too much interesting to show atm
Unless there are some mightily hidden mobile forces and Speedy is actively being deceptive here, whatever happens should be fine





AGC strategy
We put Western front onto Assault and, I keep all of my strongest units in place, put some units onto reserve (Black sqaures)
This turn we have 52 CP of Western front, with 6 rating generals

Operational options
If Speedy continues to push both N and S arrows, I will have some very nice CV units in the centre of the theatre, for turn 3
If Speedy chooses to concentrate panzers for the yellow angles, I will start turn 3 will more middling units, but, Speedy should get stonewalled in combat from 6 rating generals, and reserve activations and I can start to degrade some of those vaunted AFV's, then I can re-evaluate and reallign
I am un sure which I would prefer in all honesty, as I desperately want to degrade some AFV's as Speedy is keeping them safe and secure as of yet, but there is also a possibility to temporarily tangle up one of Speedy's lunges, if they stay seperated in halfs

I could not defend everywhere here, I could only ensure I bend in 2 places and accept that I will fold in 1, with any real effort and relying on reserve activations means I could have good units eaten up, if Speedy pushes through my ZOC to pocket/nibble
The Dnepr got the short straw and I hope Speedy doesn't play aggresively. So all in all, a fair bit of risk in this sector





AGS strategy
Same as last turn, I wanna have Speedy run into forts, to start fighting with armour divisions, while I can give them a good whack or 2, before the ground opens up
We have 48 CP worth of 6+ generals here, but once the mech corps disband, SW front is going to need some AP and army reorgs, to get into fighting shape. No idea if I plan to prioritise that many assets here right now

Operational
There are a lot of possible bad things that can happen here with a good panzer concentration, as I don't know where or what panzers are down here, so I just move out of infantry threat range to the next fort line
Still, these forts are going to be one of my last easy chances, to get some brawling in. I choose to risk it as I don't think that anything really bad is very likely to happen, without a big concentration of force, into a very thin spear tip, mixed with ZOC locking and Rums coinciding
Still if this does happen, it will be painful if I lose half of army, of some of my best infantry on the map

Rumanian limited offensive
Speedy catches out about 90k of units with the Rum boys, luckily there was only a cav brigade in the way to stop Malinovsky from doing gods work, so I manage to push out a little bit of what would of been eaten otherwise





Overall thoughts

Speedy is taking a much more thoughtful and measured approach this turn, and turning up the heat where, over the more ad hoc/practical experimenting of T1

Although I am not 100%, all likelyhoods are pointing towards Speedy actively protecting his AFV (AGC will help get a definitive answer here) If balanced correctly, this will be a huge worry, but it also has advantanges. If I can force caution and keep a level head, with my retreats I will be able to slow Axis advance faster, than an aggresive approach would, he will just have a lot more AFV come winter, to defend

Once everything newly caught and ZOC locked has been reduced, he would of also managed to cause around 800k casualties, without combat included over the next few turns. This is not as good for me as I was hoping to get but, we will see what happens

I am not sure if I like the arrow approach for every picture, doubtful I will continue it all of the time. I will definitely be continuing with the 1 post AAR from now on though, much more pleasing on the eye
If anybody has any tips on how to make these kind of things look good, lemme know

< Message edited by SparkleyTits -- 7/1/2021 8:09:32 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/1/2021 9:43:39 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Unfortunately for you, I don't think you are out of threat range in the south. German Panzer and motorized units in early turns can pretty easily have 45-50 MP. All the more so in the south. So he can potentially move up to ~15 hexes (3 MP cost to move into a clear terrain hex). So if he does things right, he could potentially encircle quite a few units. If he does though, that would only really be making up for turn 1 not going so well for him in the south.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 19
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/2/2021 5:56:59 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Yeah, you might well be right.
I am definitely taking risks, with me choosing to brawl ASAP but I want to learn my opponents playstyle and mindset as quickly as I can.
Hopefully I can figure out the line between aggresion and being foolhardy, without it being too painful for me

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 20
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/12/2021 4:12:08 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Yeah, I saw your Lvov opening, gj there
Took me a bit of brain power to match it once I saw it, as I could not figure out how to maximise 2 more MP for the final river crossing from my own AGS openings but, I managed it with lots of testing and head scratches



AGS openings for the Axis might deserve their own post. AGN is pretty standard, and AGC even moreso, the way the map is laid out everyone pretty much does the same thing in those sectors with some variation.

AGS is a whole different story. To get to Romania is tricky, there is only 1 German unit that can make it, and only 1 way to go (through Stanislav). But you don't HAVE to get to the Romanian border, more important I think you DO have to get within 2 hexes and basically lock all the Soviet units south of Lvov.

The forces South of Lvov include very strong Mountain and Tank units that have to die, along with every good Rifle units. The best units in the whole Red Army, basically, are South of Lvov. They need to be sealed off an eliminated.

I don't think there is "one good answer" though for AGS, I can see merit in different approaches. I think the only must-do is clearing the double-tracked line to Lvov, you definitely need to do that.


_____________________________


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RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/12/2021 7:44:45 PM   
821Bobo


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From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I believe it is not being worth to push towards Romanian border. If you push towards Proskurov, Soviets will have only one single rail available and not much can be railed out. Most of the units will be still between Lvov and Romania on T2 and can be pocketed then. Southern front also will not be able to retreat behind Bug.

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Post #: 22
RE: ST vs Speedy To Moscow and back again - 7/12/2021 8:32:42 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's something that is nice about WitE2 atm.
It is much more about decision and consequence for Axis, over purely maximised play, like it was in WitE1

I'd be inclined to focus on strong units over as much manpower as possible, in AGS atm, by making a secure pocket SW of Kovel and a Lvov T1
I don't feel using those precious panzers to potentially having to grind and/or defend from the strongest units the Soviets have available, is worth the risk of losing a panzer div or more worth of AFV, if the enemy uses them correctly

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Post #: 23
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