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RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/1/2021 11:10:51 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		16.3.3

A number of Soviet SAD AOGs will
(ahistorically) be retained in early 1942 and will be
renamed in early Summer 1942. In addition, five of the SAD
commands will be retained and will convert to ShAD AOGs
in early Summer 1942.

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Post #: 811
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/2/2021 7:43:20 AM   
Kel


Posts: 229
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		ok thank you very much loki100

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Post #: 812
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/2/2021 3:25:22 PM   
gw15


Posts: 919
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		1

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Post #: 813
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/2/2021 3:26:04 PM   
gw15


Posts: 919
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline 		1
quote:

ORIGINAL: gw15

Looking at the production screen it shows 1,292 in the 76.2mm M27 Inf gun pool. 477 units have it in their TOE. I click on the Ground Element Map and it shows only 548 in Pool with 90 in the (Trans). What is the difference between the 1,292 and 548? Are these guns somewhere else?
related question, looking at my reserve pool I have many artillery units that use that gun and they are on refit but they are not pulling these units out of the pool fast enough. Is there some limit on how many can be added to units each turn?

BTW, this game is so deep I lose track of time looking at the data and 4 hours later I need to eat. Great game.


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Post #: 814
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/2/2021 10:26:37 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline 		When a leader commands a composite unit, say a Soviet Tank Corps, consisting of both infantry and Motorized (Tank) parts, do they use their respective leader values for each component? Or would the entire unit be considered at "Tank" unit and the only command rating that matters is the mechanized value?

Thanks!

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Post #: 815
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/2/2021 11:21:44 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I think each combat unit does a leader check, and uses the value that is appropriate for that ground unit.

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Post #: 816
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/3/2021 1:56:59 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I think each combat unit does a leader check, and uses the value that is appropriate for that ground unit.



Thank you. That seems reasonable.

But this begs the question, what if a tank battalion is attached to an infantry division? Would it be the same here? Or would the leader use the two different stats, for the two different types of units, one Ground Unit, the other one Support Unit?

Thanks

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Post #: 817
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/3/2021 2:10:27 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I think each combat unit does a leader check, and uses the value that is appropriate for that ground unit.



Thank you. That seems reasonable.

But this begs the question, what if a tank battalion is attached to an infantry division? Would it be the same here? Or would the leader use the two different stats, for the two different types of units, one Ground Unit, the other one Support Unit?

Thanks


In the main the mech/inf ratings are used in and around combat and relate to the element type, so an armoured element calls on the mech value and an infantry element ... . In effect it makes no practical difference if that element ended up on the battlefield because its organic to one of the formations or a support unit that got attached one way or the other.

as far as I know the 'unit' tests draw off the morale/admin ratings. There may be odd instances where a command type gives an admin gain to leadership (eg a Pzr corps gives a +1 on admin for motorised, then its possible the tank battalion will pass a test and the infantry division fail). But that clearly only kicks in for admin tests (mostly logistics, combat recovery and MP determination)

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Post #: 818
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/3/2021 3:18:29 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I think each combat unit does a leader check, and uses the value that is appropriate for that ground unit.



Thank you. That seems reasonable.

But this begs the question, what if a tank battalion is attached to an infantry division? Would it be the same here? Or would the leader use the two different stats, for the two different types of units, one Ground Unit, the other one Support Unit?

Thanks


In the main the mech/inf ratings are used in and around combat and relate to the element type, so an armoured element calls on the mech value and an infantry element ... . In effect it makes no practical difference if that element ended up on the battlefield because its organic to one of the formations or a support unit that got attached one way or the other.

as far as I know the 'unit' tests draw off the morale/admin ratings. There may be odd instances where a command type gives an admin gain to leadership (eg a Pzr corps gives a +1 on admin for motorised, then its possible the tank battalion will pass a test and the infantry division fail). But that clearly only kicks in for admin tests (mostly logistics, combat recovery and MP determination)


So in summary you believe this to be the case, even with Tank Corps, not according to their base Ground Unit elements, but to the intrinsic ToE-elements. I guess I am primarily asking for the combat resolution leader checks. Ie. how bad is it to assign any armour elements to a very low Mech leader rating...

Thanks anyway. I didnt think of that there are checks for individual elements, and this may very well be the case.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 819
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/3/2021 4:19:29 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn
...

So in summary you believe this to be the case, even with Tank Corps, not according to their base Ground Unit elements, but to the intrinsic ToE-elements. I guess I am primarily asking for the combat resolution leader checks. Ie. how bad is it to assign any armour elements to a very low Mech leader rating...

Thanks anyway. I didnt think of that there are checks for individual elements, and this may very well be the case.



treat ny response with caution but I think a 'unit' is coded as motorised or not. Most of the in-game leadership tests are for the 'unit', such as MP allocation, all the logistics stuff, if it recovers from rout, whether its committed to combat as a reserve and so on. Now those issues mostly key off morale/init/admin scores.

but there are tests at the element level, now some such as recovery of fatigue or from damage use the admin/morale ratings but each element is defined as mot/not mot.

Reason that might matter is the +1 admin for mot unit in a Pzr command or a Soviet tank army.

In combat, its mostly all about the elements, does it fire, does it pass a morale test, does it hit all have leadership tests applied (this is why if you run the same battle twice you get different outcomes). Now all that lot key off the mech/inf scores of the commander.

The bit I am really not sure of (& its certainly not in the manual) is does an element hold its unique mot/not mot status or does it inherit this from the unit type. So an infantry element in a Soviet tank corps keys off the mech value of the commander where an infantry element in a rifle diviision in the same tank army would key off the inf value of the commander.

Both would make some sense, so a tank battalion attached to a 3-6 Soviet infantry commander would either key off the mech score for that commander (& be relatively badly handled). On the other hand, its practical usage is going to be infantry support and it would make some sense for the infantry value to be used?

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Post #: 820
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/4/2021 11:14:58 AM   
Jango32

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 3/15/2021
Status: offline 		Can someone help me figure out why for the last 3 or so turns only one railway repair unit has come out of the HQs along the Black Sea coast?

I have 4 Romanian rail repair support units attached to XI corps (southeast of Kherson) and 4 RAD SUs attached to the Mobile Hungarian Corps (southwest of Nikolaev). Both HQs are in range of damaged railways, no Soviet units are near and the closest FBD is one hex away from Kharkov. The units not coming on the map to repair the line has really put a number on my attempts to starve out Sevastopol and take it in 1941...

I can't seem to be able to attach the .sav file, so I will upload it on WeTransfer. The game version is 1.00.07, was hesitant to update mid-game. https://we.tl/t-sHWNK1hQsg

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 821
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 10:19:17 AM   
Tom_

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 6/27/2020
Status: offline 		Hi Folks,

During my turn 2 popup messages flashed - the first was the death of an enemy general and the second something to do with the civilians in Stalingrad. I didn't have time to fully read them before they disappeared..
I understand I can use the commanders report to see the status of my generals i.e. look at their 'fate'. - Is it possible to see which enemy general I killed?
Second - is it possible to find out what the message said about Stalingrad?
( I have checked the event log (Ctrl E) and the Commanders Screen (C))

Thanks

(in reply to Jango32)
Post #: 822
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 10:31:49 AM   
Darojax


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/29/2011
Status: offline 		@Jango32, the logi phase only checks if there are damaged rail hexes eligible for repair once. Therefore the auto rail repair units will only ever repair a single damaged hex on a given rail line per turn, regardless how many rail repair support units you have in range.

< Message edited by Darojax -- 7/5/2021 10:32:53 AM >

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Post #: 823
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 10:39:55 AM   
Darojax


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/29/2011
Status: offline 		Question:

Is there any advantage at all to have motorized non-combat support units, such as the Soviet Motorized Engineer-Sapper Battalions, compared to their non-motorized counterparts? As far as I can tell the only difference (and a disadvantage) is that they use a bunch of vehicles (and fuel) and have slightly lower ToE. I know that Soviet motorized units get a morale bonus later in the game, but for these construction units all it really means is like one extra point of construction value.

I feels gamey to disband them, but if there is no advantage at all, then better to find use for the trucks somewhere else?

< Message edited by Darojax -- 7/5/2021 10:41:37 AM >

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Post #: 824
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 11:16:19 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom_

Hi Folks,

During my turn 2 popup messages flashed - the first was the death of an enemy general and the second something to do with the civilians in Stalingrad. I didn't have time to fully read them before they disappeared..
I understand I can use the commanders report to see the status of my generals i.e. look at their 'fate'. - Is it possible to see which enemy general I killed?
Second - is it possible to find out what the message said about Stalingrad?
( I have checked the event log (Ctrl E) and the Commanders Screen (C))

Thanks



no the enemy dead general notification is a brief pop up and can't be recalled, same with the civilians. All that will be is that x,000s were moved, so think of it as a sort of refugee event (it happens when any urban centre changes hands and reduces the population at that location).

if its an AI game, you can always open its saves and look at its CR for leader losses

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Post #: 825
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 11:19:23 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darojax

Question:

Is there any advantage at all to have motorized non-combat support units, such as the Soviet Motorized Engineer-Sapper Battalions, compared to their non-motorized counterparts? As far as I can tell the only difference (and a disadvantage) is that they use a bunch of vehicles (and fuel) and have slightly lower ToE. I know that Soviet motorized units get a morale bonus later in the game, but for these construction units all it really means is like one extra point of construction value.

I feels gamey to disband them, but if there is no advantage at all, then better to find use for the trucks somewhere else?


no, the only practical gain is if you ever attach to a motorised combat unit then they have their own trucks.

In general, I'd follow the model that M60 uses and mostly get rid of most constructiion battalions and push the manpower and assets into the brigades. No harm to keeping some at the army/front level (small digging bonus) but the brigades are much more effective as location attachments such as expanding an airbase etc

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Post #: 826
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 11:43:46 AM   
Jango32

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 3/15/2021
Status: offline 		So the SUs can repair only one hex belonging to a specific railway line. Well, this changes a lot...

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Post #: 827
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/5/2021 1:52:07 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jango32

So the SUs can repair only one hex belonging to a specific railway line. Well, this changes a lot...


yes the auto SU can only repair a rail hex adjacent to an otherwise repaired hex. Note this hex does not have to be connected by rail to the existing repaired hex (there are quite a few places on the map where this can happen).

also the auto SU will not repair a rail hex if an FBD/NKPS is adjacent to it, so they won't extend the repair on a track you are manually repairing

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Post #: 828
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/6/2021 6:16:03 PM   
Darojax


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/29/2011
Status: offline 		A question about factory evacuation:

is there a difference in the amount of damage taken if moved manually vs being evacuated due to axis taking the hex? The manual says that the automatic scheduled relocation makes the factory take least damage, but it doesnt differentiate the amount of damage taken between manual or forced (axis advance) relocation.

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Post #: 829
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/6/2021 7:05:57 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darojax

A question about factory evacuation:

is there a difference in the amount of damage taken if moved manually vs being evacuated due to axis taking the hex? The manual says that the automatic scheduled relocation makes the factory take least damage, but it doesnt differentiate the amount of damage taken between manual or forced (axis advance) relocation.


I think its not important as to which is chosen, but there may be a small bit extra for a forced early evac

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Post #: 830
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/6/2021 11:09:55 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darojax

A question about factory evacuation:

is there a difference in the amount of damage taken if moved manually vs being evacuated due to axis taking the hex? The manual says that the automatic scheduled relocation makes the factory take least damage, but it doesnt differentiate the amount of damage taken between manual or forced (axis advance) relocation.


I think its not important as to which is chosen, but there may be a small bit extra for a forced early evac


I tested and found that I got 33% damage if manually evacuated, and 100% damage if not manually evacuated and lost the next turn. I would not call that a small difference. However, I only tested one instance, maybe the damage depends on the # of turns by which you lose it prior to the date when it is scheduled to be evacuated, or something similar? If so, then maybe the effect is smaller in other cases. But 33 vs 100 is a pretty large difference.

Also, just generally, I gotta say, it is pretty annoying how factories will get relocated from places like Leningrad even if it is under absolutely no threat at all, but meanwhile won't evacuate factories in other places like the Don Basin or Kharkov, and the player has no way to change this even if the in-game situation is nothing like the historical situation where the German advance was delayed in the south but rapid in the north.

< Message edited by Beethoven1 -- 7/6/2021 11:10:36 PM >

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Post #: 831
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/8/2021 4:59:34 PM   
Kel


Posts: 229
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		Hi, in a MP campaign, with bpatch 1.01.00 it seems that I can't change some leaders.
November 1941, 9th army on the railroad in front of rostov, hq Southern front, TOE 98%, supply 96%, CO Grigory Sokolov (3.5). Dismissal cost : 11 AP. I try to change him for a better guy - Bobkin, Meretskov, Petrov usw. Nothing happens. Some APs are sent but no change occurs at all.
Does anybody get the same issue or know a workaround ? Thank you

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Post #: 832
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/8/2021 5:19:16 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kel

Hi, in a MP campaign, with bpatch 1.01.00 it seems that I can't change some leaders.
November 1941, 9th army on the railroad in front of rostov, hq Southern front, TOE 98%, supply 96%, CO Grigory Sokolov (3.5). Dismissal cost : 11 AP. I try to change him for a better guy - Bobkin, Meretskov, Petrov usw. Nothing happens. Some APs are sent but no change occurs at all.
Does anybody get the same issue or know a workaround ? Thank you


sounds like this bug - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5043766

Joel's response includes a work around that seemed to work for the person who posted the bug report

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Post #: 833
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/9/2021 3:22:16 AM   
Hardradi


Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Fighters from Air HQ's will join in on Ground Support with different Targets. Eg, Rumanian Fighters with GS mission for AG Antonescu will join in an assist AG South units in battle. Is this WAD?

This makes it even more difficult to attempt to manage your own air losses. You basically have Zero control over what fighters are going to fly unless you labouriously switch them on and off Rest between battles.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 834
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/9/2021 4:07:37 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

Fighters from Air HQ's will join in on Ground Support with different Targets. Eg, Rumanian Fighters with GS mission for AG Antonescu will join in an assist AG South units in battle. Is this WAD?

This makes it even more difficult to attempt to manage your own air losses. You basically have Zero control over what fighters are going to fly unless you labouriously switch them on and off Rest between battles.


yes its WAD, fighter interaction with GS missions is set out in 18.1.3:






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 835
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/10/2021 6:57:01 AM   
Hardradi


Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		Cheers

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 836
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/11/2021 11:22:27 AM   
MaB1708

 

Posts: 336
Joined: 8/13/2006
From: Freiburg(Germany)
Status: offline 		At the start of RtL, Turn1, air phase completed.
I have not moved any air groups, so no air support replacements were needed during the air phase logistics phase.
CR does not show any unit anywhere that has received fuel, ammo, men, supplies.
Still one or two depots have some freight sent out (small amount only, though) and no according depot has received anything (so the freight sent out has not been sent to other depots).
Where has the freight gone?
According to the logistic event log of the air phase some planes had been repaired during the course of the week, is that the destination of the freight? Can I find that anywhere in air group or air HQ details? have browsed them but do not find anything.
Thanks!

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 837
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/11/2021 11:39:16 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaB1708

At the start of RtL, Turn1, air phase completed.
I have not moved any air groups, so no air support replacements were needed during the air phase logistics phase.
CR does not show any unit anywhere that has received fuel, ammo, men, supplies.
Still one or two depots have some freight sent out (small amount only, though) and no according depot has received anything (so the freight sent out has not been sent to other depots).
Where has the freight gone?
According to the logistic event log of the air phase some planes had been repaired during the course of the week, is that the destination of the freight? Can I find that anywhere in air group or air HQ details? have browsed them but do not find anything.
Thanks!


yes, there are routines for resupply during the action phases so I'd suspect that will be mostly replacing ammunition and fuel at your airbases. You'll see the same in the ground phase, fight a battle and there will often be some small associated freight movements (this was to stop an old exploit from the early days of WiTE1 where endless low odds attacks left the defender with no ammunition).

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Post #: 838
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/11/2021 11:48:33 AM   
MaB1708

 

Posts: 336
Joined: 8/13/2006
From: Freiburg(Germany)
Status: offline 		However there is no trace of these deliveries in either the unit supply detail windows or the CR.

If I move air groups between airfields there might be additional air support squads allocations and "men" are added to the airbase. Other than the ammo/fuel deliveries these DO show up in both the CR ("Men received") and the airbase supply detail windows.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 839
RE: Quick Questions Thread - 7/11/2021 12:52:44 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		neither of those screens are updated 'in-turn'

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Post #: 840
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