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Hands on air war ? - 7/11/2021 4:44:00 AM   
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39battalion
Matrix Trooper



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From: Adelaide, South Australia
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I am currently playing as the Axis with the AI air war assist on to learn how to play the game.

However I am tempted to go full monty with the air war and turn off the AI assist. I confess to being a control freak who usually enjoys managing the details.

But I am unsure whether, in such a complex game, taking on full responsibility for the air war may be a step too far even for me.

Is anybody playing with the AI assist turned off and totally handling the air war manually ? If so, what is your experience ? Is it enjoyable or overwhelming ?

Thank you
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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/11/2021 7:55:03 AM   
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Hardradi
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Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline 		I have never played with AI assist. I had a bit of experience with WitW (not much though). Started with smaller scenarios and now in my first GC.

Only T1 as Axis is a chore for me because I micro manage it. After that its mostly recon, interdiction (land and sea) and ground support(GS).

I wish we had more control of GS functionality. At least in H2H or the option to have it.

(in reply to 39battalion)
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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/11/2021 9:19:34 AM   
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loki100
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 39battalion


...

Is anybody playing with the AI assist turned off and totally handling the air war manually ? If so, what is your experience ? Is it enjoyable or overwhelming ?

Thank you


I think those with a fair bit of experience (mostly but not all from the beta) have split into 2 camps. A smaller group retain usage the AI-assist on the grounds its good enough, suits me, vs AI etc.

Most don't.

As Hardradi says T1 is a bit misleading in terms of the effort involved. Here you will find a need for many air directives, some quite carefully specified.

Beyond that, with both sides much less so. Its feasible to default to recon/ground support and a small amount of interdiction/location/unit missions plus naval where it suits.

The main challenge is less the AD creation and revision (thats often a matter of a minute or so a turn) its in terms of AOG placement. So you need to ensure that the planes are located so they can actually take part in a given GS. Lets say you want Stukas to give GS to XIV Pzr Corps, the issue is can they reach? Now in many cases, you can get around this by hooking GS to Axis Army/Soviet Front or even Axis Army Group.

In turn, esp with the Soviets there is a fair admin demand. You have to manually rotate weakened units out to the reserve, now this can be done in a few clicks in the Commander's Report but still you need to set your rules and do it. Equally you can bring back using the AOG labels, but again you need to do this.

So don't underestimate the secondary aspect of getting your airforce to the right place.


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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/12/2021 1:40:28 AM   
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39battalion
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Thanks guys. Very helpful.

And yes Loki the main challenge seems to be the placement of air groups. But this is also an interesting mini game in itself.

I will start my next game without AI air assist. Time to explore all of the subtleties of this wonderful game !

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/14/2021 3:32:09 PM   
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tonyhnz
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Status: offline 		Related question - in T1 for the soviets is it possible to move air groups out of pockets ?
I worked out how to move air groups not in pockets to reserve but did not know if could do anyhting about the ones in a pocket.

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/14/2021 5:00:28 PM   
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loki100
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tonyhnz

Related question - in T1 for the soviets is it possible to move air groups out of pockets ?
I worked out how to move air groups not in pockets to reserve but did not know if could do anyhting about the ones in a pocket.


yes, same mechanism. I often do the Soviet T1 moves at the level of the overall air command, works out well enough and you can refine any remaining odd allocations

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/14/2021 7:34:43 PM   
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tonyhnz
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Status: offline 		When i tried with pocketed air units, it did not allow them to go to reserve either from commander screen or from context menu.

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/14/2021 9:44:52 PM   
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loki100
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tonyhnz

When i tried with pocketed air units, it did not allow them to go to reserve either from commander screen or from context menu.


no, they have to deploy out of the pocket - hence the suggestion to do a large batch move using the air command level

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/21/2021 8:14:43 PM   
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tonyhnz
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Status: offline 		i did not understand fully before how to rebase the planes so had reassigned some of them but the air groups themselves did not move.

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/21/2021 8:31:40 PM   
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loki100
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From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		not quite sure what you mean.

If an air group/AOG is cut off it can't be sent direct to the reserve, but the AOG/Air group can be moved. If you are using the AI assist, placing it to retreat stance will get it to pull back to where the relevant HQ is deployed. If you do it manually, simply select the AOG and move it to where you want the planes to be based.

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 7/27/2021 8:21:29 PM   
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potski
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

not quite sure what you mean.

If an air group/AOG is cut off it can't be sent direct to the reserve, but the AOG/Air group can be moved. If you are using the AI assist, placing it to retreat stance will get it to pull back to where the relevant HQ is deployed. If you do it manually, simply select the AOG and move it to where you want the planes to be based.

It can't be manually sent to the reserve, but the pilots will jump in their planes and fly off if the airbase is actually being captured by enemy units advancing into the hex. And this is simulated by the group going to the reserves, but it can't be redeployed back to the map for a few turns. I assume that happens even if the airbase is in a pocket?

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RE: Hands on air war ? - 8/24/2021 11:13:00 PM   
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kbullard
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quote:

As Hardradi says T1 is a bit misleading in terms of the effort involved. Here you will find a need for many air directives, some quite carefully specified.


Related question. I've been experimenting with the "Road to Minsk" scenario as the Axis and Automate AI Air Assist off. For T1, is the recommendation that, for optimum results, the Axis create a Ground Attack directive against every Soviet airbase you want to target? Or, can the Axis get similar results by creating a single Ground directive for, say, Fliegerkorps VIII that covers all of the Soviet airbases you want to target in the northern part of the map? In the second case, the AI then plans and executives the individual missions.

Kurt

"Long time listener, first time caller (on this forum)"


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RE: Hands on air war ? - 8/24/2021 11:24:14 PM   
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jubjub
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kbullard

quote:

As Hardradi says T1 is a bit misleading in terms of the effort involved. Here you will find a need for many air directives, some quite carefully specified.


Related question. I've been experimenting with the "Road to Minsk" scenario as the Axis and Automate AI Air Assist off. For T1, is the recommendation that, for optimum results, the Axis create a Ground Attack directive against every Soviet airbase you want to target? Or, can the Axis get similar results by creating a single Ground directive for, say, Fliegerkorps VIII that covers all of the Soviet airbases you want to target in the northern part of the map? In the second case, the AI then plans and executives the individual missions.

Kurt

"Long time listener, first time caller (on this forum)"



You can do as you say and create a single directive that covers every airbase you want to hit with a fliegerkorps. You need to change the # of missions flown, because the 'auto' will be something crazy high. You can order one strike for every airbase if you request 50 planes per strike. That zeroes out most of the airbases. Also, make sure you change the loadouts so that no one is flying with drop tanks.


It's more efficient to fly individual missions, because 50 planes is overkill for some bases, and not enough for others.

(in reply to kbullard)
Post #: 13
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