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When Eagles Attack Lion Farm

 
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When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 6/24/2021 9:40:44 AM   
El_Condoro

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 8/3/2019
Status: offline 		Has anyone been able to win this one as the Americans? It is very easy to win as the Germans but the closest I got as the American attackers was a close assault on the victory hex after suffering many casualties - it failed 12 losses to 3!
Post #: 1
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 6/24/2021 4:21:05 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		Yes. But only because I was a beta tester and have played all the scenarios numerous times. It is a very hard scenario for the US to win and requires good luck in dice rolls along with sound fire and movement to win. You did well to reach the victory hex and have a chance to win. The best plan I found for winning the scenario was this. Send one force up to the north to get to the clump of trees near the road and eventually to work through the orchard. They can bring fire on Lehmann and Berger. You have to eliminate them as fast as you can. Send another force to the building at the intersection to do the same, using the LOS dead zone behind the building to move. Then move them into Lehmann and Berger's entrenchments once they are eliminated. Send another force led by Kegley along the south edge of the map using the trees for cover to get into the big forest. You can use them to help with Lehmann and Berger if needed or to move directly toward the objective. Remember also that you can send a half squad out into the open to draw fire to allow another unit to move without being fired on. That helps when you have a big stack needing to cross open ground. You can call that an exploit or a feint, take your pick, but it is not unique to V&V. If everything works out just right you can get in position to assault the objective on the last turn. Also remember that Verhalter and Richt will probably move to counter whatever moves you make, especially if you move a force into the forest. The defense doesn't just stay in place in this scenario.

(in reply to El_Condoro)
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RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 6/24/2021 6:02:29 PM   
JonJonJon

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline 		I've just nailed it first time. Seemed like one of the easier ones - range and LOS advantage for the attackers, loads of support weapons. That's every scenario played once as the attacker for me and it's maybe only the third I've won.

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Post #: 3
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/8/2021 11:28:49 AM   
El_Condoro

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 8/3/2019
Status: offline 		Getting this scenario in one go is very impressive. It has taken me many more than that. I have achieved two victories and the screen shot is the latest/best one.

The command phase is pretty important in this one (to split units and send 2-strength feints when drawing off enemy fire ready for an assault). The sachel charge unit must be kept safe until you're ready to use it in an assault. Watch those fire lines - get the Germans to fire their MGs so that the line doesn't split your forces. I didn't go to the north - I sent everythng to the south and then west to use the forest for cover, always keeping an eye on the range of the German units. The MG that they have in the middle is a priority to take out.

Screenshot

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RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/8/2021 9:52:48 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		Very tough scenario where the importance of leadership is highlighted as the Germans have 5 leaders to the attacking Americans 2. You can use the American Paratroopers better stand off range but they don't have the benefit of time, they have to move fast and there is little cover. The obvious role for Kegley's platoon is to advance into the building and use it as a base of fire to wear down the Germans in the trenches just outside of the HQ. Usually it's going to be up to Rose to move his Platoon up through the orchard where it's very likely he will get cut to ribbons. Even if they make it to the Regimental HQ Major Hoffman has several squads of German Fallschirmjager loaded up with extra grenades just spoiling for a close in fight. It's going to take some great rolls at the start to have a chance at this one as 5 turns goes really quick.

I used this same map to create a similar scenario where a German motorized force with trucks and a few towed ATG's have to advance across the open fields to take the same buildings from some dug in British Regulars. With little cover it's a tough slog even when supported by the larger guns using their stand off ranges.

< Message edited by Monkie -- 7/8/2021 9:55:34 PM >

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RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/8/2021 9:59:30 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		The Southern approach seems like the best if you can silence Lehman's MG42, then you can get up through those woods for much better cover. The challenge is getting that all done in 5 turns and getting that Satchel charge in position. I'll have to try this approach next time.

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Post #: 6
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/9/2021 3:16:13 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		No luck on the southern approach. What is left of units that made it through the open to the woods can't break the defenses in the HQ. It takes 4 turns of movement trying to get into position on the south side of the road to begin with and I've seen Richter get into a +4 defensive position next to the HQ using the hedges and building. Good luck knocking him out of that let alone assault the HQ by turn 5 with any meaningful force.

I am curious if JonJon has reproduced his easy victory more than once in this scenario because I'm 0-6 right now.

I will work with half squads and feints a bit more next go at it, see how much that helps, but the 5 turns sure makes it's a tight rope affair.

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Post #: 7
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/9/2021 4:20:54 PM   
JonJonJon

 

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Joined: 6/17/2021
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie

No luck on the southern approach. What is left of units that made it through the open to the woods can't break the defenses in the HQ. It takes 4 turns of movement trying to get into position on the south side of the road to begin with and I've seen Richter get into a +4 defensive position next to the HQ using the hedges and building. Good luck knocking him out of that let alone assault the HQ by turn 5 with any meaningful force.

I am curious if JonJon has reproduced his easy victory more than once in this scenario because I'm 0-6 right now.

I will work with half squads and feints a bit more next go at it, see how much that helps, but the 5 turns sure makes it's a tight rope affair.


I'll have another pop at it over the weekend. If i remember right, I sent everyone south leaving only a couple of units out of range at the top waiting to come down later through the orchards - without a leader. Going south meant being able to gang up against one stack. It was a last turn dash from all angles that won it, like most scenarios, and with the satchel charge the decisive factor.

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Post #: 8
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/9/2021 5:20:01 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline 		If you go south put enough units in the north and the middle, the farmhouse, to occupy the defenders and draw their fire. Even if you send a couple of half squads into the open to do it. When I've had success it has meant getting at least one full stack with three squads and a leader into the wood from the south.

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Post #: 9
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/9/2021 5:21:54 PM   
JonJonJon

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline 		Yep, second go another victory. Did it slightly differently by accident. After turn one move:



Getting Rose in position to slip into the trees up top and Kegley into the building, in the A&A phase. Can use a unit without support weapon from the top bunch to draw the fire of the hmg. I didn't, but got lucky with the roll of Rose going into the river. Proceed to shoot up the outnumbered and out-ranged defenders. Verhafter comes down into the trees by Lehman and needs dealing with by Kegley, while Rose hits Lehmann. Then it's mad dash time. The guy with the satchel is down the bottom and doesn't even get in on the action - he could quite happily hide behind Kegley until the coast is clear. Rose can advance into the open to allow him to reach the obj next turn, while staying out of range. Richter does nothing unless one strays into his LOS - it would be nasty to face a human who would use him.



Susie Hoffmann doesn't buy the decoy para's coming through the orchard, so Kegley and his boys draw fire and sacrifice themselves allowing Rose to move into position:



Rose and his two tooled-up squads get the job done thanks to a prayer to RNGesus:



And with that, the Eagles have landed:



< Message edited by JonJonJon -- 7/10/2021 9:57:08 AM >

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Post #: 10
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/9/2021 9:06:09 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		Hope you can post those screens, just need to embed them as jpegs

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Post #: 11
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/10/2021 12:36:49 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I haven't invested much time into the game so far, but these posts hint that there is good scenario design at work here.

Sometimes we don't need the three million Germans and 100+ counters in WitE2 to have some fun.

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Post #: 12
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/10/2021 10:03:19 AM   
JonJonJon

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline 		They're up - just needed to wait a bit as I hadn't cleared the timescale for posting links.

The key to the scenario is not engaging Hoffmann in a firefight. He can be dealt with via close assault on the last turn. For this to be done, firstly Lehmann and Verhafter (assuming he brings his men into the trees by Lehmann) need taking out (as they have the range and firepower to hit back) from the woods with Rose and house with Kegley respectively, and then Berger - who only has one squad capable of returning fire. Both groups are then within range to dash up to Hoffmann and the obj after his fire has been drawn by decoy runners in the open. My first try I had two groups and it was the second that defeated him via the satchel charge, and in the second game Rose snake-eyed TF out of him.

< Message edited by JonJonJon -- 7/10/2021 10:04:28 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/11/2021 12:01:35 AM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		In none of my games have I ever been able to get rid of Berger and Lehman so easily, they usually hold out in the trenches with just enough firepower (sometimes just themselves) to counter any move through the orchard. Also if they are still in place they make it tough for the units coming up through the southern woods as they still have to be dealt with and that just wastes more time. So basically the scenario seems to be coming down to a few good rolls to knock them out or else it's over. Kegley's -2 is very important but it always seems he comes up with either misses or those dreaded pin's.

Also I noticed that Richter stays in that ineffective position to the NW of the objective hex. In my games I've seen him move one hex south to the building where he effectively shuts down any southern move.

I'll have to try a few more times to see if the RNG's smile on me finally.


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Post #: 14
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/11/2021 1:59:18 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		I am pretty much done with this scenario for awhile. Not only did Lehman survive but killed a half squad and a full squad all by himself. And Hoffman with his -2 and his seemingly never ending rolls of 4 or less wiped out Rose a couple of times over as he approached through the orchard.

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Post #: 15
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/11/2021 3:05:42 PM   
JonJonJon

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie

I am pretty much done with this scenario for awhile. Not only did Lehman survive but killed a half squad and a full squad all by himself. And Hoffman with his -2 and his seemingly never ending rolls of 4 or less wiped out Rose a couple of times over as he approached through the orchard.


Hoffmann doesn't have to be engaged at all until assaulting - at which time throw him some bait in the open to draw his fire. There's no need to enter his firing range before this.

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Post #: 16
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/11/2021 6:10:43 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		I am shelving that scenario for good now, I just gave it another couple of tries. I went through 3 turns without killing one single german unit even with the large stacks, rolled 10, 11's and 12's constantly. One of my half squads pinned the MG42, then Verchafter moved up through the woods and rolled snake eyes on one of my moving squads. I was out at that point, the fun was sucked out of the scenario.

I'm having little success with using half squads as the Germans were picking them off one by one with low rolls and the negative modifiers for defensive fire phase.


(in reply to JonJonJon)
Post #: 17
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/11/2021 8:56:01 PM   
El_Condoro

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 8/3/2019
Status: offline 		Pretty much every scenario is over if a large stack is hit with low dice rolls - there are just too few units to balance it. I am wondering if there could be a way for the devs to allow (an optional) more balanced dice roll game where only 5-9 rolls occurred. There would still be the necessary luck factor but it wouln't be as critical as it is now. Those low and high rolls are just too important IMO.

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Post #: 18
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/11/2021 10:03:39 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		Having more averaged dice rolls is an interesting idea, it might make the game more dull in some aspects as then it might be more like chess than combat. The whole discussion on averages is way above my mental capacity, but I just know it really is frustrating to see your efforts bludgeoned to death early on due to a few bad rolls.

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Post #: 19
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/12/2021 1:26:51 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		This is pretty much how every game has gone my last 4 attempts. Rose and Kegley sit in the only cover available and continue to do absolutely nothing to wear down the outter defenders. Any attempt at decoys have been cut down already by the AI 2 and 3's rolls. The demo charge is with the 2 squads in the woods but Richter is waiting along with Verhafter neither of which has suffered any damage. Berhafter has the orchards covered so Rose has little to no chance of moving towards the objective without some type of pin or loss.




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Post #: 20
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/12/2021 1:28:52 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		This is how the dice rolls went for Kegley and Rose.... well done men!




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Post #: 21
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/12/2021 1:36:48 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		And here is Lehman coming in to save the day by pinning Rose's assault and ending any chance for victory. I would have done anything to see a 3 roll for my units this game.




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RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/12/2021 2:10:05 PM   
El_Condoro

 

Posts: 251
Joined: 8/3/2019
Status: offline 		I've never seen the AI do that - send Richter out from the NW. He usually hangs around with Hoffman. In other scenarios, my actions affect where the AI sends its squads, so try the south and then west approach to see if the AI only sends Verhafter, which is what it has done every time I've played this scenario. What happened to your squads in the south-west forest? Did they get close assaulted by Verhafter? Getting Rose so close is an achievement - don't forget you can reload the scenario and it will start you on Turn 5 (in this case) and maybe you can offset the bad dice rolls.

< Message edited by El_Condoro -- 7/12/2021 2:13:11 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/12/2021 2:12:07 PM   
JonJonJon

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/17/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Monkie

This is pretty much how every game has gone my last 4 attempts. Rose and Kegley sit in the only cover available and continue to do absolutely nothing to wear down the outter defenders. Any attempt at decoys have been cut down already by the AI 2 and 3's rolls. The demo charge is with the 2 squads in the woods but Richter is waiting along with Verhafter neither of which has suffered any damage. Berhafter has the orchards covered so Rose has little to no chance of moving towards the objective without some type of pin or loss.





I think you're being too aggressive - there's no need to move forward of Rose and Kegley's positions until the last turn. Decoy runners before the defense is whittled down is suicide. Sit back , take advantage of the superior range the allied troops have and deplete the defenses for four turns.

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Post #: 24
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/12/2021 10:25:46 PM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		Actually Rose did sit back till the last minute and was able to get his assault in on the HQ on the turn 5 Allied move and close assault segment, however by then he was so depleted and the pin pretty much ruined any chance. Rose has to be on the move by Turn 4 or else I don't think his platoon has movement points but I could be wrong, I'll have to game it and see.

To answer El Condoro.... the squads in the SW forest I sent after Verhafter and Richter since they really had little else they could do. I was obviously trying to draw fire off of Rose. I believe they had the Demo Charge and inflicted some casualties but little to change the course of the attack. I believe they were wiped out on the Germans turn 4 segments counterattacks.

Kegley was worthless and I immediately sent him back to the states to train replacements.


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Post #: 25
RE: When Eagles Attack Lion Farm - 7/13/2021 1:06:30 AM   
Monkie

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline 		So Rose does need to be on the move for Turns 4 and 5 to be in position for the final assault. I got close but it was only because I literally sacrificed most Kegley's Platoon rushing out from the house drawing fire. The final assault was put in but no dice. I guess I can replay the last turn over and over until they roll a winning assault but I'm good with knowing this is about the best strategy available.

Perhaps a little tinkering in the OOB might create a few more approaches for the Americans.




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