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How to see units out of command?

 
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How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 11:48:19 AM   
russkly

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 7/27/2004
Status: offline 		Is there an easy way to do this?

It's not an option under Soft Factors, and I can't see the option anywhere else, including in the Commander's Report screen.

I did try searching the manual, but searching "out of command" doesn't help, and searching for "command" yields 1,053 results, so not terribly helpful!

It would obviously be useful to see quickly which units are out of command without clicking on each HQ to find the units with a red counter outline.

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 11:57:34 AM   
xhoel


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Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
Status: offline 		You can check the CR screen column DtHQ (distance to HQ). If I remember correctly, if the range is a positive nr or 0 they are within the command range. If negative then they are out.

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(in reply to russkly)
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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 12:20:00 PM   
russkly

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 7/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks.
That helps.
Would be lovely to have it as a soft factor nonetheless - bit easier to see such a critical piece of information...

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 12:52:46 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: russkly

Thanks.
That helps.
Would be lovely to have it as a soft factor nonetheless - bit easier to see such a critical piece of information...


you can also use a couple of map modes - see the descriptions in section 36.5. This captures both immediate out of command (eg to a corps HQ) and further up the range (eg out of command for the army HQ)

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 1:27:14 PM   
russkly

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 7/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: russkly

Thanks.
That helps.
Would be lovely to have it as a soft factor nonetheless - bit easier to see such a critical piece of information...


you can also use a couple of map modes - see the descriptions in section 36.5. This captures both immediate out of command (eg to a corps HQ) and further up the range (eg out of command for the army HQ)


Appreciated.

I'll play around with Command Efficiency then.

Thanks.

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 2:23:52 PM   
Bamilus


Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
Status: offline 		Note that one of those map modes is described incorrectly in printed manual. Errata is in patch notes or living manual PDF.

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 2:29:17 PM   
jubjub

 

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quote:

You can check the CR screen column DtHQ (distance to HQ). If I remember correctly, if the range is a positive nr or 0 they are within the command range. If negative then they are out.


This works for Germans since the command range of corps is 5 hexes. For Soviets, it won't work since armies have a command range >5.

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 3:09:23 PM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

quote:

You can check the CR screen column DtHQ (distance to HQ). If I remember correctly, if the range is a positive nr or 0 they are within the command range. If negative then they are out.


This works for Germans since the command range of corps is 5 hexes. For Soviets, it won't work since armies have a command range >5.


it does, the command range to first HQ must be 5, all the distance bonus for Army Group/Front etc only kick in if they are in a chain of command.

so if a unit reports to OKH it must be withing 5 hexes to get a bonus not the 90 which is the notional command range

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 4:15:37 PM   
jubjub

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

quote:

You can check the CR screen column DtHQ (distance to HQ). If I remember correctly, if the range is a positive nr or 0 they are within the command range. If negative then they are out.


This works for Germans since the command range of corps is 5 hexes. For Soviets, it won't work since armies have a command range >5.


it does, the command range to first HQ must be 5, all the distance bonus for Army Group/Front etc only kick in if they are in a chain of command.

so if a unit reports to OKH it must be withing 5 hexes to get a bonus not the 90 which is the notional command range



i'll have to check again. I remember trying to use that method with the Soviets and not finding anything in the CR. Pretty sure the distance to HQ column in the CR is (notional command range) - (distance to HQ). For units reporting to anything but a corps, looking for negative #'s in this column would not give the desired result.


I guess you could get it to work by modifying the filters. You'd have to filter by HQ as well (filter on 'army').


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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 10:04:34 PM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
Status: offline 		For soviets, you need to filter for DtHQ < 10 to find the out of range units.







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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/14/2021 10:25:42 PM   
GloriousRuse

 

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Status: offline 		I just use command efficiency. Anything below green gets a look.

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/15/2021 7:25:59 AM   
loki100


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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

For soviets, you need to filter for DtHQ < 10 to find the out of range units.








no, as above out of direct command once you exceed 5 hexes. Really not sure what you are trying to say?

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/15/2021 6:44:44 PM   
jubjub

 

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quote:

no, as above out of direct command once you exceed 5 hexes. Really not sure what you are trying to say?


I was correcting the original point made by xhoel (shown below). His statement is not true for units that report to armies (aka Soviets). If you wish to find units out of direct command that are attached to armies, you need to look for DtHQ <10 instead of just negative values.

quote:

You can check the CR screen column DtHQ (distance to HQ). If I remember correctly, if the range is a positive nr or 0 they are within the command range. If negative then they are out.



The example from the Veliki Luki scenario demonstrates this. The units that are out of range all have DtHQ <10 but greater than zero. The CR would only show a negative value if they are more than 15 hexes away.

< Message edited by jubjub -- 7/15/2021 6:49:10 PM >

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/15/2021 7:41:48 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		Xhoel is right as that column is not by hex its by MP - I've just double checked against an old Soviet save. -ve means you are out of immediate command range to the controlling HQ

< Message edited by loki100 -- 7/15/2021 7:52:26 PM >

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/15/2021 10:37:34 PM   
jubjub

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

Xhoel is right as that column is not by hex its by MP - I've just double checked against an old Soviet save. -ve means you are out of immediate command range to the controlling HQ



From appendix F:


"Distance to HQ [DtHQ] is the difference between the command range of the HQ unit to which the
unit is attached and the distance in hexes from the HQ unit to the attached unit."


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Post #: 15
RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/16/2021 7:40:32 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

Xhoel is right as that column is not by hex its by MP - I've just double checked against an old Soviet save. -ve means you are out of immediate command range to the controlling HQ



From appendix F:


"Distance to HQ [DtHQ] is the difference between the command range of the HQ unit to which the
unit is attached and the distance in hexes from the HQ unit to the attached unit."




then I hate to say this, but the manual is wrong (at a guess that will be from the old WiTW version). I shall have a sharp word with the author about this oversight

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/16/2021 11:56:29 AM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
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quote:

then I hate to say this, but the manual is wrong (at a guess that will be from the old WiTW version). I shall have a sharp word with the author about this oversight



I’ll drop the subject after this, but it’s clearly using hexes as stated in the manual. Not only can you verify this with a quick check, but I’ve been using this method to find units out of command range for 100+ turns. If you could show a screenshot of the CR where it’s using MP to calculate DtHQ, maybe you could convince me..



< Message edited by jubjub -- 7/16/2021 12:09:52 PM >

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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/16/2021 1:28:21 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jubjub

quote:

then I hate to say this, but the manual is wrong (at a guess that will be from the old WiTW version). I shall have a sharp word with the author about this oversight



I’ll drop the subject after this, but it’s clearly using hexes as stated in the manual. Not only can you verify this with a quick check, but I’ve been using this method to find units out of command range for 100+ turns. If you could show a screenshot of the CR where it’s using MP to calculate DtHQ, maybe you could convince me..




here, 52A, all its sub-units are in command (5 hexes or less) DtHQ shows MP cost between the formations. As I said above, the manual writer is clearly an idiot.






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RE: How to see units out of command? - 7/16/2021 2:14:26 PM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
Status: offline 		Take the 57th Guards Rifle Corps for example. It reports to an army, which has a command range of 15, and is one hex away from its HQ. Therefore, we should get DtHQ = 15-1 = 14, which checks out with the number in the CR. This process can be repeated for every unit shown in the CR.

Also, you can see that closer units have higher DtHQ, which doesn't make sense if it's just showing MP.


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