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Trying to understand logistics - 5/21/2015 12:54:16 AM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
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I finally think I have a good grasp of the air war so now I want to try and figure out logistics. In particular, what should the WA be doing after the invasion of France to ensure the maximum amount of supplies reach the frontline units? My specific questions are:

1. I realize TFs automatically repair size 1 and 2 ports in one turn, but does having more than 1 TF in or adjacent to a larger port speed up its repair?
2. I read somewhere that you shouldn't waste Admin points setting the repair of ports as a priority as their repair automatically is a priority, is that true?
3. I understand that when you first invade units will draw supply directly from the ports, for this reason I assume you want to set the priority for all these ports at 4. But once you move inland and setup a depot is there any reason to maintain the port supply priority at 4 or should you reduce it. In other words if your set the port priority at 1 and the depot priority at 4 will this reduce the level of supplies moving through that port to the depot?
4. Once you have setup a 2nd depot that is closer to the front then your first depot does this mean the 1st depot should be destroyed or have it's supply priority reduced?
5. If you invade Pas de Calais is it worth it to repair the rail tracks to Paris in order to take advantage of all the railyards there? If so would any purpose be served in building a depot in Paris even though it is not directly on your supply line?
6. Is it better to have a depot say 10 hexes back from the front that has a 5 railyard or a depot 5 hexes from the front that has only a 1 railyard, or both? If the latter what should there respective supply priorities be set at?

As you can see from my questions I really do not have a very good understanding of logistics at all. Unfortunately I don't find the on map resources very helpful in gaining this understanding. If I press the logistics button it will show me how much freight is moving over my rail lines, but not in which direction it is travelling. Sometimes this is not as obvious as you might think. For example, I did invade Pas de Calais and I did repair the rail lines to Paris. After this, to my surprise, I found that the rail lines to Paris had a lot of freight running on them. Since I did not build a depot in Paris and it is in the opposite direction of my front lines I do not understand this. Also, I am not sure if the limiting factor on supplies reaching my units is my port capacity or my railyard capacity, or something else.

So any help/suggestions any one can give me here would be appreciated.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/21/2015 7:26:09 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/21/2015 7:38:20 AM

soeren01

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline

1: No
3: These ports recieve there supply from other ports only. You should leave them on level 4. They work only in one direction. On the port side the supplys come in, on the rail side the supplys go out.
4: I prefer to have a string of depots, with the ones away from combat (and airbases) getting a lower priority than the frontline ones. Remember that a depot can only stote a finite amount of stuff. If your units need more supply than the depot can store, you need more than one depot.
5: Repair all rail lines you can to get alternate routes your supply can take. More railyard capacity is alway a good thing.

What do you have near Paris, airbases ?

_____________________________

soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
CoG FoF
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(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 2

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/21/2015 2:19:43 PM

Seminole

Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline

All of the following are from my own understanding of the rules, and observations in playing the game:

quote:

1. I realize TFs automatically repair size 1 and 2 ports in one turn, but does having more than 1 TF in or adjacent to a larger port speed up its repair?

I've not read anything about TFs speeding up repair of larger ports. Available engineer SUs in HQs on land close to the port should be lending a hand. I don't know the priority order of automatic engineer SU assistance in all combinations, but I know I encountered delays in enlarging airfields on Corsica as the allies because my engineers were busy fixing railways on their own initiative instead.

quote:

2. I read somewhere that you shouldn't waste Admin points setting the repair of ports as a priority as their repair automatically is a priority, is that true?

21.2.4.1. Port and Railyard Factory Priority Repair
Hexes with depots will automatically attempt to find construction units to attempt priority repairs on ports and railyards in the hex. This does not cost APs and it will not have the factory item flagged with an asterisk (only player directed priority repairs will flag the factory item in the city detail window). This function is lower priority than any player directed priority repairs. Both the HQ unit supplying the construction unit and the location being repaired must be in supply. Damaged ports and railyards at depots will only get automatic priority repair from a construction support unit if the item is damaged at over 30 percent, (if a port and railyard, then if the combined damage is over 30% then it will try to get help). Also, for repairs at depots, a construction unit can split it�s time to help repair both the port and the railyard, with the port getting the priority between the two.

quote:

3. I understand that when you first invade units will draw supply directly from the ports, for this reason I assume you want to set the priority for all these ports at 4. But once you move inland and setup a depot is there any reason to maintain the port supply priority at 4 or should you reduce it. In other words if your set the port priority at 1 and the depot priority at 4 will this reduce the level of supplies moving through that port to the depot?

Keep first in mind that depots have operational levels.
A temp port is a level 2 depot (anchor symbol). It's going to want to pull freight over water from higher level depots. The additional depots you build inland on railyards are going be level 1 depots (rail track symbol), that will seek to meet their needs from available depots on the railnet.

The priority level is basically saying, "IF below this level (your priority setting's relation to the supplies on hand at the depot), THEN draw more supplies"

20.1.6.1. Freight Shipments to Depots in the Logistics Phase
Freight movement to depots is conducted in two shipment phases. In the first phase, type 1 (rail) depots will only attempt to receive freight up to 1/4 of the depot�s capacity, while other types of depots will try to receive up to their full capacity. In the second phase, all depots will try to receive up to their full capacity.

Reducing supply flow to the level 2 depots could inadvertently starve the 'downstream' level 1 depots by reducing what is available for them to pull.

It's a bit trickier with the Axis in the Med. The AI quartermaster is taking some account into how far south the depot is when the supply requests are taken. I've found only by turning off the supply to Sicily can I get the Axis AI quartermaster to send supplies to Sardinia, and it seems like I have to shut down Sardinia and Sicily to get supplies into Corsica. Once their depots are nearly full (and they consequently aren't completely draining the Axis shipping with their requests) I can kind of normalize the priority levels and have them behave more like expected.
Something that indicated the priority order of requests from the same depot level would be welcome, as learning by trial and error has so many factors that make it difficult to test in isolation.

quote:

4. Once you have setup a 2nd depot that is closer to the front then your first depot does this mean the 1st depot should be destroyed or have it's supply priority reduced?

So many variables that hard and fast rules won't be much help. Better to keep in mind the principles the system in operating on.
Keeping and supplying depots depends on the depot level as described above. Also keep in mind you have airbases to feed too. Hitting the 8 key will show you the supply traces from units (including air bases) to depots. Hit this at the beginning of your turn before you move units so you can get an idea of how far units are having to truck supplies. That's the thing you want to key on. You want those truck routes short. Moving the supplies by trucks eats up trucks and eats up supplies.
WA units within 1 hex of a depot don't use trucks getting supplies.
Axis units within 3 hexes of a depot don't use trucks to get supplies (they use horse drawn, which itself eats some supplies).
Good to remember for units like HQs. Also, beware as the German player in getting depots overrun. Once the enemy is adjacent to a depot that depot can only supply units in the hex, or adjacent to the hex. It's effectively cut off from the supply grid at that point, so keep it in mind.

quote:

5. If you invade Pas de Calais is it worth it to repair the rail tracks to Paris in order to take advantage of all the railyards there? If so would any purpose be served in building a depot in Paris even though it is not directly on your supply line?

Haven't played through that campaign, but I would think it would be an advantage to have as much rail capacity as possible to get as much freight as possible from coastal depots to inland depots closer to your units for as much of the game as possible.

quote:

6. Is it better to have a depot say 10 hexes back from the front that has a 5 railyard or a depot 5 hexes from the front that has only a 1 railyard, or both? If the latter what should there respective supply priorities be set at?

The railyards factor into how much freight you can move (when it is fully repaired) to your depots, and how big the co-located depot is, but it offers no advantage to the units requesting supplies if it is farther away. It just requires more trucks and means they'll get less supplies than if they had drawn from a closer depot.
I would want depots in both. That way my units pull the smaller, closer depot dry, then hit the farther depot if needed (and vehicles, etc. allow), and that farther depot is going to be prioritized by airbases. You don't want your airbases competing with your ground forces over supplies at small depots near the front line.

< Message edited by Seminole -- 5/21/2015 3:46:16 PM >

(in reply to soeren01)

Post #: 3

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/21/2015 3:38:11 PM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

Thank you both.

(in reply to Seminole)

Post #: 4

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 6:46:31 AM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

As I said above thanks for you responses. But the more I look at this the more questions I have. Below is a screenshot taken from my 43 Campaign game against the AI. I have hidden the units to better show the Logistics Screen. The level 3 port in Ostend has no damage as do all the ports West of Ostend (except Boulogne). I have a mulberry (port level 4) in the hex SE of Boulogne, but I just now realized that the rail line in this mulberry hex has never been repaired. All the ports East of Ostend do have some level of damage. Antwerp is at 64 damage, while the level 4 port The Hague has only 22 damage. As you can see the front line is East of the Ruhr, with Bochum being my most easterly depot.

It would appear that freight is flowing from the ports through Antwerp, Brussels and Liege to my forward depots. But:
1. Why are my airfields (many displayed in yellow or orange) starving for supplies/fuel even though they are close to the ports? They all have priority levels of 3, should they be set higher?
2. Based on what Seminole said above I should build more depots close to the front, such as in Duisburg, Essen and Dortmund, correct?
3. Should I change the priority levels for any of my ports or depots and, if of so, why?
4. Where, if at all, should I be setting the priorities for repairing railyards or ports?
5. Any other suggestions?

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< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/22/2015 7:55:47 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 6:55:18 AM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

I find the Freight movement screenshot of the same map area even more confusing. can anyone explain this to me? In particular:
1. According to Rule 20.1.6.1 blue lines represent the movement of freight from one port to another. But if so what are all the blue lines radiating from the non-port of Essen? I have not even got a depot in Essen. I'm guessing that this has something to do with Essen being a German National Supply Source. So is this a bug and those lines should not be there? Or do they actually show the movement of freight to or from Essen?
2. Rule 20.1.61 also says that white lines show the movement of freight from non-port depots to depots and red lines from depots to units. If so what colour of line shows the movement of freight from port depots to depots? Have I misread the rule and this is shown by the white lines, or are there no lines to show this movement? If the former than I would have thought to see a lot more white lines, if the latter isn't this a rather important piece of information to omit?
3. As a corollary question to the above, what do the white line from Haarlem to Duseldorf and the white lines emanating from Antwerp represent? Haarlem and Antwerp are ports, but both ports are badly damaged, does that mean anything?
4. As a further corollary question, one of the white lines emanating from Antwerp travels a considerable distance to Bescanon (off map); but Bescanon and Antwerp are not even joined by rail. I do have a rail line coming from the south via Marseilles but the 2 rail lines are not even close to being linked. So how is this depot to depot movement of freight possible?
5. Etappes is an undamaged port and there is a white line from it to Charlesville (off map). You can see the beginning of this white line in the lower left corner. If the white lines do show the movement of freight from port depots to non-port depots (which is the opposite of what 20.1.6.1 says) then this makes perfect sense to me. But if the white lines do show this then why are there no white lines showing from my other ports to other non-port depots; such as for example from my main supply ports of Dunkirk and Ostend to any other depots?
6. So where are my front line depots getting their freight? As indicated above Duseldorf appears to be getting it's freight from Haarlem. A size 4 port with 88 damage. Why not from The Hague which is a closer size 4 port with only 22 damage? Bochum and Colgne appear to be getting freight from Essen, which as stated above is odd as Essen is not a depot. And if so where is Essen getting it's freight from, or is that what those mysterious blue lines represent?
7. It would appear that almost all my units are drawing their supply of freight directly from a port rather than from a depot that is closer to them. For some units I understand that the reason might be that the depot closest to them has limited freight capacity (usually due to a damaged railyard) but still there are under used depots closer to them then the port. For example Brussels has a fully functioning size 6 railyard with a capacity of 120,000 tons and is closer to my units, albeit not by much, than my ports in Ostend and Dunkirk. Yet only 3500 tons of supply was received by Brussels.
8. How does damage to the railyard of a depot effect it's ability to receive freight? For example, the depot in Bochum has a size 3 railyard with 62 damage and still shows a capacity of 60,000 tons. But it only received about 15500 tons. Was this because of the damage to the railyard or because of the lack of trains to carry the freight to the depot?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/22/2015 8:04:45 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 7:45:42 AM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

Loads of questions so here goes:

1. Why are my airfields (many displayed in yellow or orange) starving for supplies/fuel even though they are close to the ports? They all have priority levels of 3, should they be set higher?

Some of your airfields look overloaded. That won't help. Also what do you have based there - bombers are very hungry.

2. Based on what Seminole said above I should build more depots close to the front, such as in Duisburg, Essen and Dortmund, correct?

Yes - the closer to the front the less trucks you need.

3. Should I change the priority levels for any of my ports or depots and, if of so, why?

Use priority to channel supply. Ports have a limit on handling freight determined by the port size - the choke point will be getting supplies across the Channel. Set Antwerp and other big ports to 4. Those in the west set to 1 or 2 unless you have troops there - you shipping freight the wrong way. Similarly set the big english ports to 4.

4. Where, if at all, should I be setting the priorities for repairing railyards or ports?

Big is beautiful - it took me 12 months of nagging Joel to get the capacity bar added to the display - it is a useful indicator of what to repair and exploit. All depots are not created equal.

5. Any other suggestions?

Read my one page guide.

1. According to Rule 20.1.6.1 blue lines represent the movement of freight from one port to another. But if so what are all the blue lines radiating from the non-port of Essen? I have not even got a depot in Essen. I'm guessing that this has something to do with Essen being a German National Supply Source. So is this a bug and those lines should not be there? Or do they actually show the movement of freight to or from Essen?
2. Rule 20.1.61 also says that white lines show the movement of freight from non-port depots to depots and red lines from depots to units. If so what colour of line shows the movement of freight from port depots to depots? Have I misread the rule and this is shown by the white lines, or are there no lines to show this movement? If the former than I would have thought to see a lot more white lines, if the latter isn't this a rather important piece of information to omit?
3. As a corollary question to the above, what do the white line from Haarlem to Duseldorf and the white lines emanating from Antwerp represent? Haarlem and Antwerp are ports, but both ports are badly damaged, does that mean anything?
4. As a further corollary question, one of the white lines emanating from Antwerp travels a considerable distance to Bescanon (off map); but Bescanon and Antwerp are not even joined by rail. I do have a rail line coming from the south via Marseilles but the 2 rail lines are not even close to being linked. So how is this depot to depot movement of freight possible?
5. Etappes is an undamaged port and there is a white line from it to Charlesville (off map). You can see the beginning of this white line in the lower left corner. If the white lines do show the movement of freight from port depots to non-port depots (which is the opposite of what 20.1.6.1 says) then this makes perfect sense to me. But if the white lines do show this then why are there no white lines showing from my other ports to other non-port depots; such as for example from my main supply ports of Dunkirk and Ostend to any other depots?
6. So where are my front line depots getting their freight? As indicated above Duseldorf appears to be getting it's freight from Haarlem. A size 4 port with 88 damage. Why not from The Hague which is a closer size 4 port with only 22 damage? Bochum and Colgne appear to be getting freight from Essen, which as stated above is odd as Essen is not a depot. And if so where is Essen getting it's freight from, or is that what those mysterious blue lines represent?
7. It would appear that almost all my units are drawing their supply of freight directly from a port rather than from a depot that is closer to them. For some units I understand that the reason might be that the depot closest to them has limited freight capacity (usually due to a damaged railyard) but still there are under used depots closer to them then the port. For example Brussels has a fully functioning size 6 railyard with a capacity of 120,000 tons and is closer to my units, albeit not by much, than my ports in Ostend and Dunkirk. Yet only 3500 tons of supply was received by Brussels.

The system is not perfect and depot type effects colours - although not strictly true think blue ships, white rail and red trucks. I use it to get a feel of flow. In an ideal world you should see short red lines close behind your frontline from a number of depots with white lines to those depots from the ports. Trucks are doing small loops and rail the big moves. The picture above is showing that most of your supply is flowing from the port by truck. I think your airfirld shortages may be truck related too.

The art of using the system is as I have said already is to use priority to channel the flow of freight to where you want it. I never set more than 3 depots of any one type to 4. High priority depots get first call on the freight which as far as I understand cascades from level to level. So start at the national supply sources and think where next (big is beautiful).

8. How does damage to the railyard of a depot effect it's ability to receive freight? For example, the depot in Bochum has a size 3 railyard with 62 damage and still shows a capacity of 60,000 tons. But it only received about 15500 tons. Was this because of the damage to the railyard or because of the lack of trains to carry the freight to the depot?

In the version you are using it doesn't (manual is wrong) we are testing new rules in this area. At the moment the limit is in the maximum capacity of the depot only. Freight movement by rail is affected by railyard point avaliability which can be drawn from up to 50 MPs from either end of the rail journey. You may have run out of freight capacity across your network.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 7

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 7:55:43 AM

soeren01

Posts: 393
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Bayern
Status: offline

I would think you don't have enough freight around. On everyone of your depots the green bar and the red bar are the same height. That means the depots hand out all they get to your units. The units now try to get freight from the nearest depot, nearest meaning easiest to reach, not nearest in hexes. After the first few units drew their freight, the depots where empty, so the next units have to go to depots farther away.
It seems that transportation wise Ostende via rail is easier to reach than Antwerp without rail.
Repair the ports in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and repair the rail lines to these citys, and the whole picture should look greatly different.

_____________________________

soeren01, formerly known as Soeren
CoG FoF
PacWar WIR BoB BTR UV WITP WITE WITW

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 8

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 8:02:15 AM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

Toggle Shift-L to see factory damage at the same time as the logistics screen - that helps identify problem areas.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to soeren01)

Post #: 9

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 7:59:09 PM

Harrybanana

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Loads of questions so here goes:

1. Why are my airfields (many displayed in yellow or orange) starving for supplies/fuel even though they are close to the ports? They all have priority levels of 3, should they be set higher?

Some of your airfields look overloaded. That won't help. Also what do you have based there - bombers are very hungry.

My 2 overloaded airbases are only at 101% and 102% respectively. Wouldn�t think that would make a huge difference. But about half of my aircraft at the problem airbases are 2 engine bombers: I�ll try and avoid that mistake again.

quote:

2. Based on what Seminole said above I should build more depots close to the front, such as in Duisburg, Essen and Dortmund, correct?

Yes - the closer to the front the less trucks you need.

Okay, but isn�t it true that having more depots close to the front is only going to help me if I have freight capacity (ie freight trains) to move the freight from my ports to those depots? In this case my most forward depot (Bochum) is only receiving about 25% of the freight it can handle, so doesn�t that suggest (as you point out later) that the choke point for me is not having enough freight capacity? Or am I still mixed up about this?

quote:

3. Should I change the priority levels for any of my ports or depots and, if of so, why?

Use priority to channel supply. Ports have a limit on handling freight determined by the port size - the choke point will be getting supplies across the Channel. Set Antwerp and other big ports to 4. Those in the west set to 1 or 2 unless you have troops there - you shipping freight the wrong way. Similarly set the big english ports to 4.

Really, the choke point is getting supplies across the channel? Historically I thought the Allies had more than enough cargo ships to carry the supplies they needed across the Channel, but not enough port capacity (at least until Antwerp was captured, repaired and cleared) to unload those supplies. But examining my ports more closely seems to indicate that what you are saying is true. For example, Ostend is undamaged but still only receiving about 25% of the freight it can handle. But if this is the case why is Antwerp so important if it the Allied shipping can only deliver to it a fraction of its capacity? Just because it is 6 hexes closer to the front than Ostend?

quote:

4. Where, if at all, should I be setting the priorities for repairing railyards or ports?

Big is beautiful - it took me 12 months of nagging Joel to get the capacity bar added to the display - it is a useful indicator of what to repair and exploit. All depots are not created equal.

Thank you. I can understand why a big depot may be better than a small one; but based on my comments above I�m not sure why a big port is better than a small one if you can�t use its full capacity anyway due to the shipping/cargo shortage.

quote:

5. Any other suggestions?

Read my one page guide.

If you are talking about the Player�s Manual, I did read it. Didn�t know it was you that wrote the bit about Logistics though, so thank you again.

quote:

1. According to Rule 20.1.6.1 blue lines represent the movement of freight from one port to another. But if so what are all the blue lines radiating from the non-port of Essen? I have not even got a depot in Essen. I'm guessing that this has something to do with Essen being a German National Supply Source. So is this a bug and those lines should not be there? Or do they actually show the movement of freight to or from Essen?
2. Rule 20.1.61 also says that white lines show the movement of freight from non-port depots to depots and red lines from depots to units. If so what colour of line shows the movement of freight from port depots to depots? Have I misread the rule and this is shown by the white lines, or are there no lines to show this movement? If the former than I would have thought to see a lot more white lines, if the latter isn't this a rather important piece of information to omit?
3. As a corollary question to the above, what do the white line from Haarlem to Duseldorf and the white lines emanating from Antwerp represent? Haarlem and Antwerp are ports, but both ports are badly damaged, does that mean anything?
4. As a further corollary question, one of the white lines emanating from Antwerp travels a considerable distance to Bescanon (off map); but Bescanon and Antwerp are not even joined by rail. I do have a rail line coming from the south via Marseilles but the 2 rail lines are not even close to being linked. So how is this depot to depot movement of freight possible?
5. Etappes is an undamaged port and there is a white line from it to Charlesville (off map). You can see the beginning of this white line in the lower left corner. If the white lines do show the movement of freight from port depots to non-port depots (which is the opposite of what 20.1.6.1 says) then this makes perfect sense to me. But if the white lines do show this then why are there no white lines showing from my other ports to other non-port depots; such as for example from my main supply ports of Dunkirk and Ostend to any other depots?
6. So where are my front line depots getting their freight? As indicated above Duseldorf appears to be getting it's freight from Haarlem. A size 4 port with 88 damage. Why not from The Hague which is a closer size 4 port with only 22 damage? Bochum and Colgne appear to be getting freight from Essen, which as stated above is odd as Essen is not a depot. And if so where is Essen getting it's freight from, or is that what those mysterious blue lines represent?
7. It would appear that almost all my units are drawing their supply of freight directly from a port rather than from a depot that is closer to them. For some units I understand that the reason might be that the depot closest to them has limited freight capacity (usually due to a damaged railyard) but still there are under used depots closer to them then the port. For example Brussels has a fully functioning size 6 railyard with a capacity of 120,000 tons and is closer to my units, albeit not by much, than my ports in Ostend and Dunkirk. Yet only 3500 tons of supply was received by Brussels.

The system is not perfect and depot type effects colours - although not strictly true think blue ships, white rail and red trucks. I use it to get a feel of flow. In an ideal world you should see short red lines close behind your frontline from a number of depots with white lines to those depots from the ports. Trucks are doing small loops and rail the big moves. The picture above is showing that most of your supply is flowing from the port by truck. I think your airfirld shortages may be truck related too.

The art of using the system is as I have said already is to use priority to channel the flow of freight to where you want it. I never set more than 3 depots of any one type to 4. High priority depots get first call on the freight which as far as I understand cascades from level to level. So start at the national supply sources and think where next (big is beautiful).

8. How does damage to the railyard of a depot effect it's ability to receive freight? For example, the depot in Bochum has a size 3 railyard with 62 damage and still shows a capacity of 60,000 tons. But it only received about 15500 tons. Was this because of the damage to the railyard or because of the lack of trains to carry the freight to the depot?

In the version you are using it doesn't (manual is wrong) we are testing new rules in this area. At the moment the limit is in the maximum capacity of the depot only. Freight movement by rail is affected by railyard point avaliability which can be drawn from up to 50 MPs from either end of the rail journey. You may have run out of freight capacity across your network.

Based on what I have learned from you I believe you are correct that my main problem is freight capacity. But if so how do I fix this? My front line depots are already at priority 4, would reducing the priority of say Brussels and other more rear depots help this at all? Given that only 2500 tons of freight was received by Brussels anyway this seems unlikely. I think the only thing I could do (or rather could have done as this game is over) is set the repair of all my railyards as a priority. Would that be your advice?

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 10

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 8:03:23 PM

Harrybanana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: soeren01

I would think you don't have enough freight around. On everyone of your depots the green bar and the red bar are the same height. That means the depots hand out all they get to your units. The units now try to get freight from the nearest depot, nearest meaning easiest to reach, not nearest in hexes. After the first few units drew their freight, the depots where empty, so the next units have to go to depots farther away.
It seems that transportation wise Ostende via rail is easier to reach than Antwerp without rail.
Repair the ports in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and repair the rail lines to these citys, and the whole picture should look greatly different.

I think you are right; I lacked freight moving capacity (ie not enough trains/railyards). Next game I will set railyard repair as a priority. The rail line in Antwerp was repaired, but the port itself was still badly damaged. I did indeed repair the ports in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and the rail lines to them. Not sure really how much this helped as while I was playing the game I paid very little attention to supply and logistics. By this time victory was assured and so I wasn't worried about every nuance. But if I was playing a real opponent rather than the AI it might have been a very different story.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/22/2015 9:07:37 PM >

(in reply to soeren01)

Post #: 11

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 8:11:49 PM

Harrybanana

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: soeren01

1: No
3: These ports recieve there supply from other ports only. You should leave them on level 4. They work only in one direction. On the port side the supplys come in, on the rail side the supplys go out.
4: I prefer to have a string of depots, with the ones away from combat (and airbases) getting a lower priority than the frontline ones. Remember that a depot can only stote a finite amount of stuff. If your units need more supply than the depot can store, you need more than one depot.
5: Repair all rail lines you can to get alternate routes your supply can take. More railyard capacity is alway a good thing.

What do you have near Paris, airbases ?

I had nothing near Paris at all. the only reason I built my rail lines there was to acquire the Railyards. I just wasn't sure (and I'm still not) if this was the best use of my rail repair units, or if I should have used them to repair more lines from my beaches/ports to the front. By this time Italy was inactive so all 6 repair units were in NW Europe.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/22/2015 9:13:54 PM >

(in reply to soeren01)

Post #: 12

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 8:46:04 PM

RedLancer

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From: UK
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I'm not going to try and bluff that I understand the system perfectly. You need to coax the system to maximise potential. There are no hard and fast actions.

It is very difficult to see when the problem is a lack of freight rather than capacity. By aligning high priority with max capacity you focus effort.

Your cross channel problem is probably not ship related but the ability of the ports to handle freight (both loading and unloading). That is why you need to ensure the big ports are fully active and you use their potential by setting them as a high priority. Port depot capacity is linked to damage so repair those first. Repair railyards - depots in the same hex aid repair.

(I wrote all the Player's Guide - working on a new one page guide at the moment as Pavel has been busy.)

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 13

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 9:41:15 PM

marion61

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One suggestion I can make is to go back across the entire map and turn off or disband all those depots you've left behind you in areas that have no need of supply. When your choosing an offensive you definitely need to look at the railyards along the way and their capacity along the way. Once you've left an area you need to disband all those old depots that longer serve a purpose.

Places I put depots:

1. As many as I can right behind the lines set to priority 4 in the area of my main attack/advance. Quiet areas can be set to 3 or 2, so that your funneling supplies to the troops that need them. Also remember to set the supply priority of your armies to appropriate levels to what they're doing. This will also funnel troops to the units that require them the most.

2. I group my air groups around the largest depot, by air command, close to the front, usually 5 hexes or so. These depots will be set to 3 or 4 depending on how hard I plan on using them that turn. It's also a good idea to make a few large depots about 10 hexes or so behind the lines and place your transport aircraft at them. I set these to 3. You can easily run out of supply doing this at the depot, so fly supply to the troops that really need it. Spread your transports out also so that they don't always use the same depot to fly supply.

3. Go back thru every base you have and if they don't have aircraft and they aren't forward bases near the front, I set all my empty bases to 1 and auto TOE. I've set them to zero before, but there seems to be no difference.

4. Get as many ports as you can as soon as you can. The large ports I normally make the closest one to the front at 4, while I turn down the ones behind it as needed. Once that large port starts to reach capacity, which most ports never reach, set it to 3 and set a big port behind it to 4 and fill it up. That black bar is very helpful and the blue bar. Those little crap ports in Calais, once I've fixed them and taken ports further along I turn them to 0 or 1. They suck up supply in little increments that could be used up the line.

5. When you plan an advance, have your RR units ready and have more than one railway along your planned advance. You can clog up your rails trying to send too much supply so make more paths for them to travel on. Orange is BAD! Yellow is pretty normal, but shoot for green. Get the rails repaired from your ports!

6. As soon as you take a railyard or port, put it on priority repair and try and move a hq that has a const. unit on it. It helps sometimes.

7. Airfields you capture and are going to use, put their toe to 100 and priority 4. If you can move planes onto it after you capture it put one group or two so that the base will get some supply and air support the next turn. Don't overload new bases with planes. This can cause you supply issues getting supplies to that base. slowly build up the base with planes over a turn or two.

8. The "N" key is your friend. Check your rail colors and see where the choke point is and clear it. Clear it as in repairing rails so that there's more access to the area if possible.

These are just some things I do to keep my supply up. One other thing I do is for my largest rail yards, like Rennes, Paris, Brussels, Antwerp, etc., I do set them to 3-4 so they will suck as much supply up from the ports as they can and send them to the front. I'm not sure why this helps, but keeping those big railyards full, usually helps keep the front full too.

< Message edited by meklore61 -- 5/22/2015 10:47:55 PM >

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 14

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/22/2015 11:21:46 PM

Harrybanana

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Thank you for those tips Melkore, I will use them all.

I won a decisive victory over the AI at the Normal Setting, but now want to try it at the Challenging Setting. Then I will try an actual human. I think I will need all the help I can get.

< Message edited by Harrybanana -- 5/23/2015 12:22:40 AM >

(in reply to marion61)

Post #: 15

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 5/23/2015 6:26:03 AM

Harrybanana

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Okay, I actually reread the Rules and realized my error. I was incorrectly assuming that a port/depots "capacity" (the black line) referred to how much freight it had the capacity to handle in a turn; but in fact it refers to the storage capacity of that port/depot. So, for example, I thought that with it's capacity of 200,000 tons Ostend could receive that much freight in a turn. In fact, according to Rule 20.1.6, as a level 3 port an undamaged Ostend can only receive 15,000 X 3 = 45,000 tons per turn. So since it in fact received 44,100 tons it is operating at near peak capacity. Frankly I think this information is more vital than knowing what its storage capacity is; but I doubt we will be able to talk the Developers into adding another line.

So now things make a lot more sense to me.

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 16

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 7/23/2021 7:25:12 PM

sillett

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Where is the city detail window, please?

(in reply to Harrybanana)

Post #: 17

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 7/23/2021 9:51:27 PM

cfulbright

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What's your view on all those size 1 and 2 ports along the two coasts of Italy as the Allies move up the peninsula? Keep them and set them to level 1 so they bring in supply and put it on the rails, or shut them down because they're sucking away attention from the northern-most ports that are set to level 4?

Cary

(in reply to marion61)

Post #: 18

RE: Trying to understand logistics - 7/23/2021 10:01:11 PM

cfulbright

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The city detail screen comes up when you click on the name of the city (or temporary port or airbase) on the main screen. See this example. Then on the left side of the city detail screen you can see damage levels of port, railyard, and factories, and click on any that are damaged to turn on or off accelerated repair.

Cary