RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) vs ITAKLinus (A)

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 11:27:54 PM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RADM.Yamaguchi

I see very big research efforts on KI-84a and i wonder if it isn't overkill at some point.

When i ran my analysis and simulations it averaged:

01 = 12/09/43
02 = 10/20/43
03 = 10/01/43
04 = 08/31/43
05 = 08/11/43
06 = 08/01/43
07 = 07/27/43
08 = 07/19/43
09 = 07/12/43
10 = 07/07/43
11 = 07/03/43
12 = 07/01/43

I chose 8. I can see going to 9 or 10 to guard against some bad dice rolls but 12 seems a little overboard.

Just my experience. I could be all wrong. DYODD.

Difference between 8 and 12 for the R version is night and day -- 12.5 days per month acceleration boost!

Even more so with the engine bonus which I plan to have!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 31

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 11:35:46 PM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.

The Tojo is a very handy plane to have if the Allies make an all out fight of it early. And I think every JFB should plan on that, because you can adjust easily to a Sir Robin but you can't adjust to an early fighter without costing a lot of supplies.

I've always felt that the short-range on it really limits it's usefulness, especially outside of Burma.

An 8 hex range is fine for as confined a theatre as Burma, but largely limits the plane to a defensive role in other more expansive theatres. Challenging to use it in the Central Pacific, for example.

I think I'd rather have more Oscars that can be multi-role and lean on the Nicks (which you will likely build anyway to make use of the dedicated FB squadrons) for to back them up rather than spend R&D on a plane that has narrow use (both temporally and geographically) until the Frank appears in numbers.

The other consideration is that the Oscar has some value as a massed kamikaze airframe (not as good as the Frank however) while the Tojo doesn't really.

That said, happy to accept I'm the dissenting opinion on this one!

If the first Tojo that comes is good enough, they may be no reason to research farther along the line but then there is no problem building that one as you see how the game develops.

It also depends upon the scenario and the engine that it uses. If it uses a special engine in common with the Helen and you are not going to build any Helens, then I can see not building the Tojo at all nor any of those engines.

+1

The best outcome in term of these decisions is impacted by numerous variables. Ranging from other production plans to preferred game style to most importantly the evolving situation on the map. I can't imagine I would have done as well against Andy Mac's concentrated and escorted bomber strikes in very early 1943 with just the Zero, Oscar and limited Nicks. The Tojo was key in that scenario, but most probably would not be as key in others.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 32

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 11:47:01 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Any plans for the Nick?

I see some success with fighters/fighter bombers on low naval attack.

Not R&D wise no, but I will most certainly build it in large numbers. Given its flexibility, I find the Nick to be an extremely important weapon in Japan's arsenal. Especially so in 1942 but really in some roles (I imagine) for the duration of the conflict.

That seems the right approach to my thinking.

Nick arrives too early for R&D to be worthwhile, and the subsequent Nick models are a downgrade in my view and the Randy B seems at best very slight improvement over the Nick A.

The other IJA fighter bomber options are a joke (Nate FB, anyone?) or arrive too late to be useful. I'd like to se the Ki-94-Ib as a fast, low naval attack plane, but with an arrival date of 11/45 and a service rating of 4, I find it hard to see when it would see action.

There is the Randy A, which is classed as a fighter. That may be an option if you want a high durability anti-bomber plane for the late war, but it has no bombs so less flexibility.

To be honest, I don't think it does much that the Frank R can't already do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

2) I find that having the Tojo even for only those several months before Frank shows up as potentially invaluable. It's also a service 1 fighter that I would continue to rely on in certain sitations for the rest of the game.

The Tojo is a very handy plane to have if the Allies make an all out fight of it early. And I think every JFB should plan on that, because you can adjust easily to a Sir Robin but you can't adjust to an early fighter without costing a lot of supplies.

I've always felt that the short-range on it really limits it's usefulness, especially outside of Burma.

An 8 hex range is fine for as confined a theatre as Burma, but largely limits the plane to a defensive role in other more expansive theatres. Challenging to use it in the Central Pacific, for example.

I think I'd rather have more Oscars that can be multi-role and lean on the Nicks (which you will likely build anyway to make use of the dedicated FB squadrons) for to back them up rather than spend R&D on a plane that has narrow use (both temporally and geographically) until the Frank appears in numbers.

The other consideration is that the Oscar has some value as a massed kamikaze airframe (not as good as the Frank however) while the Tojo doesn't really.

That said, happy to accept I'm the dissenting opinion on this one!

If the first Tojo that comes is good enough, they may be no reason to research farther along the line but then there is no problem building that one as you see how the game develops.

It also depends upon the scenario and the engine that it uses. If it uses a special engine in common with the Helen and you are not going to build any Helens, then I can see not building the Tojo at all nor any of those engines.

+1

The best outcome in term of these decisions is impacted by numerous variables. Ranging from other production plans to preferred game style to most importantly the evolving situation on the map. I can't imagine I would have done as well against Andy Mac's concentrated and escorted bomber strikes in very early 1943 with just the Zero, Oscar and limited Nicks. The Tojo was key in that scenario, but most probably would not be as key in others.

That's a fair response. I suppose my thinking boils down to the fact that the last Oscar model seems comparable in many ways to the Tojo, but with much great potential uses. That of course ignores the timing and on-map demands.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 33

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/28/2021 11:58:24 PM

DesertWolf101

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December 10, 1941

SRA

The approach to Mersing was the critical sector for this turn. I was somewhat surprised to see minimal interference from Francisco's naval assets aside from some MTBs that were quickly dealt with. I imagine he probably pulled back his bigger warships due to the enhanced Nettie threat given my capture of Kuching.

The threat from the air on the other hand was very much there today. Francesco threw the kitchen sink at me - dozens of torpedo bombers, dozens of regular bombers, and dozens of Catalina and Dornier patrol aircraft (the American ones torpedo capable) came at my ships, escorted by more than 50 Buffalo/Blenheim fighters. My fighter LRCAP did what it could, but against such a mass of enemy aircraft significant numbers broke through during both the morning and afternoon phases. Unfortunately this included some 50 Vildebeest sorties overall that made their torpedo attack runs. The overwhelming favorite (and the only Japanese ship to be hit today) was the battleship Kongo, which ended up taking three torpedo hits. Very very fortunately, damage turned out to be minimal all things considered, as the Kongo took the hits like a champ, suffering only 14 system and 23 flood damage (8 of which is major). Furthermore, the 4th Division is completely ashore at Mersing!

Elsewhere in the SRA my cruiser/destroyer task forces continued to thin out the thundering herd, particularly in the Celebes Sea.

Central Pacific

Given the weather related lack of action yesterday, I figured enough of Francesco's fighters must have repaired their damage to raise the CAP potency at Pearl to dangerous levels. I therefore stood back with the KB and did some sweeps only to be met by thin air.... Val dive bombers did pick apart one of two destroyers that sortied out against me however.

China

The Chinese arrived in significant numbers at Ichang last turn and immediately launched their attack this turn. A pretty good result for the Chinese, so the race is on to save the garrison.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 7/29/2021 12:10:24 AM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 12:12:29 AM

RangerJoe

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I find Jakes on Low Naval to be decent even with rookie pilots when they attack merchant type vessels. When they get trained, they can build up experience on something like ASW before they become a Divine Wind - or a BIG PHART!

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Post #: 35

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 12:33:00 AM

mind_messing

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Always better to be lucky than good, especially so in the case of Kongo.

quote:

The Chinese arrived in significant numbers at Ichang last turn and immediately launched their attack this turn. A pretty good result for the Chinese, so the race is on to save the garrison.

Agreed, but you should be able to really leverage the clear terrain to even the odds via air attack and look to counterattack promptly.

A big Allied investment into taking Ichang tends to leave the Chinese fairly thin on troops on the northern flank of Changsha, especially if the Chinese units retreat off the road grid. It's a long, awkward walk back to a useful position.

Not sure what your plans are in this theatre, but I lean towards going for Changsha first, rather than Sian. A closer goal, ovr easier terrain, and gives you a base that can easily be supplied via the Yangtse for to start bombing the airbase (and attending aircraft) as well as the Chinese supply stockpile in Chungking. In comparison Sian feels like a fight over an awkward road network, terrible terrain and too many river crossings. Changsha even has it's river crossings on the "right" side for an IJA attack...

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 36

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 1:17:22 AM

Lowpe

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You can convert some Light Bomber squadrons to Nicks/Randys...this gives you the practical effect of increasing your fighter presence by allocating rear area bomber defense to these planes freeing up your dedicated fighters for other probably more important work...also helps prevent sudden ship loss from a deep air strike against a port loaded with ships.

Also, they can be an early counter to P38s.

As an Anti fletcher force, they never worked for me...much better is the Lilly divebomber with range and dropping 2 SAP bombs...the equivalent of a 6" Brooklyn shell if I recall correctly.

The Randy fighter has a very high altitude rating.

Not a fan of turn fighters into Kamikazes...I seem always to be short fighter squadrons plus I never supersize them. Although Kamikaze fighter squadrons can still do LRCAP and Sweep and CAP roles.

The value in upgrading to the last Nick is engine usage. Randy FB are worthwhile and perform better than Nicks across the board.

I like when the Allies attack at Ichang, as those are some of the best Chinese troops in the theater...a great opportunity to smash them good, and I think forts start high at Ichang.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/29/2021 1:18:15 AM >

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 37

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 1:38:17 AM

mind_messing

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I'll echo Lowpe on some of this. Less so on other aspects :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

As an Anti fletcher force, they never worked for me...much better is the Lilly divebomber with range and dropping 2 SAP bombs...the equivalent of a 6" Brooklyn shell if I recall correctly.

The only downside to the Lily is that the 100kg bombs they carry struggle to put the hurt on anything with serious armour. They're great against destroyers, the older cruisers, and anything thin on the top (transports, non-armoured carriers)

quote:

Not a fan of turn fighters into Kamikazes...I seem always to be short fighter squadrons plus I never supersize them. Although Kamikaze fighter squadrons can still do LRCAP and Sweep and CAP roles.

I'm thinking of all those late-war training squadrons you get with Nates and the like that you'll want to convert to using better planes, either for dedicated kamikaze operations or otherwise.

IMO you'll want to use some of them for dedicated kamikaze as speed seems to be a big variable, both in terms of getting a good time to target and to make it hard for the Allied CAP.

quote:

The value in upgrading to the last Nick is engine usage. Randy FB are worthwhile and perform better than Nicks across the board.

You're sold on the Randy B? Looking at the stats I find that really hard to determine what the key difference is. The only thing I can think of is that the 57mm + 2x20mm just makes it that much more lethal as otherwise the two planes seem well matched.

May need to change my tune on that aircraft then.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 38

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 5:44:45 AM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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I may have missed it, but do you guys have any HR's in place?

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(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 39

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 2:14:48 PM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

You're sold on the Randy B? Looking at the stats I find that really hard to determine what the key difference is. The only thing I can think of is that the 57mm + 2x20mm just makes it that much more lethal as otherwise the two planes seem well matched.

May need to change my tune on that aircraft then.

Given Lowpe's hight altitude reference, I assume he meant to refer to the Randy A rather than the Randy B?

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 40

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/29/2021 2:22:55 PM

DesertWolf101

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Joined: 11/26/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I may have missed it, but do you guys have any HR's in place?

You did not miss it, I neglected to mention them so this is a good time to rectify the oversight.

Aside from the pretty standard first turn rules (In which I insisted on adding in no invasions within two hexes of a port sized 4 or above for realism), the rest of the rules are mostly:

1) PPs to be paid in full to cross borders, no shortcuts.
2) Thai troops to stay in Thailand
3) No night airfield/port bombing, strategic night bombing is fair game.
4) No para split/sub landings
5) On Francesco's own insistence, no 4E on naval attack (excluding Mavis/Emily).
6) No strat bombing in China until June 1944.
7) Max 800 carrier aircraft per hex / Max 800 land based aircraft stacking level per hex

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 7/29/2021 2:24:32 PM >

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 41

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/31/2021 8:52:28 AM

DesertWolf101

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December 11, 1941

SRA

Betty and Nell bombers staging from Manado joined in with torpedo runs against fleeing Allied ships in the Celebes Sea, sinking half a dozen transports and auxiliaries of various types. IJN submarines also increased their rate of hits during the night, sinking some nice transports and tankers previously damaged during the first day air strike on Singapore. Japanese destroyers tangled with and sank several motor torpedo boats, but no further sighting of enemy warships beyond that this turn.

In Malaya Georgetown was taken by spearhead armored forces while the 22nd Australian Brigade was mauled by the 4th Division during its capture of Mersing. Some Dutch 139WH-3 bombers attempted to strike the Kota Bharu airfields but were roughly dealt with by Oscars. Overall the situation looks quite promising in Malaya.

The landings in the Philippines are now underway, concentrated predominantly at Aparri. Zeros on LRCAP struck down a dozen or so of Francesco's responding SOC-1 Seagulls and P-35As but some slipped through to sink an Aden class cargo ship. I also lost an empty Lima class cargo ship to a Dutch submarine close to Samah.

China

I lost four sally bombers close to Sinyang to a bounce from the flying tigers, but other airstrikes proceeded smoothly, including an intervention in the air in support of the Ichang garrison where the Chinese attacked a second time and reduced the fort levels once more.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 42

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/31/2021 8:58:09 AM

DesertWolf101

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Hong Kong was also attacked this turn and forts were knocked down a level. Disruption and fatigue are still at pretty good levels so I have decided to attack again next turn.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 43

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/31/2021 9:45:12 PM

rustysi

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quote:

For night fighters, ditch the Randy-C. It arrives too late and the radar is stuck to a 10/45 activation date.

The highlighted section is a moot point, as what it basically means that no IJA NF will have radar, as the Randy is the only one that gets it.

quote:

Not a fan of the Tojo, suggest you ditch it completely , but that's something of a ccontroversial opinion on here.

The Tojo should be your 'bridge' to the Frank. The Oscar's air frame is just too light.

quote:

Going George over Jack also a smart move.

quote:

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model

5c best all-round, could be, but I prefer to use it and the 5b in tandem. 5c, fleet defender, 5b, escort.

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Post #: 44

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 7/31/2021 10:49:43 PM

jdsrae

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quote:

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model

M8 has a +4% top speed over the 5c with 350mph vs 336. The M8 gets the 5b speed back while providing armour protection for the pilot.
M8 also has a +20% manoeuvre performance up to 20k' with 29 vs 24.

Based on the above, the M8 is clearly superior to all M5 versions in the CAP range 0 fleet defender role.
M8 can also escort out to range 8 with drop tanks, so can escort too.

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(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 45

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/1/2021 5:26:09 PM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

quote:

On the Zero, what's the merit in the M8 vs the 5c? I've found the 5c the best all-round model

M8 has a +4% top speed over the 5c with 350mph vs 336. The M8 gets the 5b speed back while providing armour protection for the pilot.
M8 also has a +20% manoeuvre performance up to 20k' with 29 vs 24.

Based on the above, the M8 is clearly superior to all M5 versions in the CAP range 0 fleet defender role.
M8 can also escort out to range 8 with drop tanks, so can escort too.

The 5c does have superior firepower and comes earlier. Overall I prefer the M8 too though.

(in reply to jdsrae)

Post #: 46

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/1/2021 5:46:48 PM

DesertWolf101

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December 12, 1941

SRA

I anticipated a full response from the Americans over the landing beaches at Aparri today so I put up a strong CAP of Zeros backed up by some Nates at low altitude. Instead of going with a mix of sweeps and naval attack missions, Francesco went all in with sweeps. The Japanese fighters did ok in the resulting dogfights, knocking out about two P-40s for every Zero/Nate destroyed. Most importantly only one Zero pilot was permanently lost as the fighting was over Japanese territory.

Francesco also began B-17 harassing raids this turn. He successfully destroyed four small one-point PBs docked at Batan Island and scored a single hit on light industry in Cambodia. Will need to hunt these beasts down before they start doing real damage.

For my part Japanese subs and Netties continued with their streak of carnage, sinking some riff raff as well as some nice tankers, transports, etc. across the region. (I also got my first kill off the West Coast - a nice C2-class AK).

The attack on Hong Kong went well today and knocked down forts another peg. Will continue on with another assault next turn, hopefully the last one.

China

China is where I had a pretty bad day today. I mauled a few Chinese Corps some more and was spared another attack at Ichang, but a very nasty and well crafted ambush by the Flying Tigers knocked out 24 of my Sallys. Ouch, and good play by Francesco! The air losses for the day are listed below:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/1/2021 5:52:58 PM

DesertWolf101

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Central Pacific

Francesco's refusal to meet my sweeps galvanized me into risking a port strike while enemy fighters were still in large numbers at Pearl. Once more nothing came up to meet the Japanese aviators but the weather was pretty dismal (heavy rain) so not as many hits were scored a I had hoped. I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships. Not sure it's worth sticking around too much longer if it's just a couple extra points of damage per hit. I have already spent way more time with the KB visible than I ever done in the past.

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 8/1/2021 5:57:58 PM >

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Post #: 48

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/1/2021 8:21:04 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Overall I prefer the M8 too though.

I prefer the Sam, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I don't know how you play (and that's up to you), but I don't skip aircraft models in the development chain. So that means to get the M8 will take some time, or a huge R&D commitment, and the game affords me neither.

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Post #: 49

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/1/2021 8:31:32 PM

rustysi

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quote:

I wonder how much flotation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Its been my experience (and that's not enormous) that they cause either a large amount of damage, or very little. IIRC they have high levels of duds. Hey, just like real life. Oh, that AE.

quote:

I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin.

quote:

but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates?

Messages like this one are never good for the receiving vessel.

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Post #: 50

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/1/2021 8:37:25 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I wonder how much flotation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Its been my experience (and that's not enormous) that they cause either a large amount of damage, or very little. IIRC they have high levels of duds. Hey, just like real life. Oh, that AE.

quote:

I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin.

quote:

but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates?

Messages like this one are never good for the receiving vessel.

Also remember at times like this, it is better to give than to receive!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 51

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 7:33:25 AM

DesertWolf101

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I don't know how you play (and that's up to you), but I don't skip aircraft models in the development chain. So that means to get the M8 will take some time, or a huge R&D commitment, and the game affords me neither.

We have no issues with skipping aircraft models in the development chain, so I have the option of getting the M8 earlier if need be.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 52

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 7:47:14 AM

DesertWolf101

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Joined: 11/26/2016
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December 13, 1941

Has is it only been a week of war? Seems like so much has happened since the 7th...

Central Pacific

Nevermind trying to finish off the damaged ships at Pearl, I have wasted enough time with the KB visible and my pilots need some quieter days. I launched some sweeps and traded kills/losses on a one to one basis with the defending fighters. Nowhere near good enough and I have no intention of wasting away elite aircrew.

China

Doing ok here in China as I continue to maul a number of Chinese Corps all over the map. Whether I will be able to translate my early moves in this theater into something meaningful remains to be seen. Ichang was held in force and Francesco paid a hefty price in destroyed squads in his effort to take it.

SRA

The 4th Division has cut the rail from Singapore to the rest of Malaya, and Japanese armor is racing down south to link up with the 4th. Operations are going as planned here. I expect the assault into Singapore to occur before the end of the month. Hong Kong also appears on its last legs with forts at 0. We shall see if the next attack takes it. To the southeast of the region I have taken Kendari under the cover of Nettie bombers.

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

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(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 53

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 8:28:12 AM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
We have no issues with skipping aircraft models in the development chain, so I have the option of getting the M8 earlier if need be.

Then by all means go for M8, the pause between its arrival compared to earlier models is insignificant. You can get it as early as summer 42 and it is a game changer for IJNAF. Generous expansion in Ha-33 production is a given too, M8 is a massive additional draw on those

Also, check one more time with your opponent. Maybe he is not fully aware of how differently R&D works with skipping intermediate models. Skipping is a massive additional advantage for Japan

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 8/2/2021 8:31:51 AM >

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 54

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 8:31:04 AM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Not terribly much, in my experience. Sys and engineering damage aplenty, but not much of flotation unless it's from fighting the fires.

quote:

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

I tend to treat the "critical hit" or "massive explosion" as being equal to another bomb hit. Ammo or fuel explosions I treat as another torpedo hit. Magazine explosions as two torpedos.

quote:

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

Even with so few penetrating hits, the sandpaper effect of the bombing will have driven sys damage up to uncomfortable levels for combat operations, plus the benefit from any weapons knocked out on the ships.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 55

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 3:54:58 PM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
We have no issues with skipping aircraft models in the development chain, so I have the option of getting the M8 earlier if need be.

Then by all means go for M8, the pause between its arrival compared to earlier models is insignificant. You can get it as early as summer 42 and it is a game changer for IJNAF. Generous expansion in Ha-33 production is a given too, M8 is a massive additional draw on those

Also, check one more time with your opponent. Maybe he is not fully aware of how differently R&D works with skipping intermediate models. Skipping is a massive additional advantage for Japan

Francesco is very well versed with the Japanese side and regularly skips aircraft models in his games. No issues here!

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 56

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 3:56:37 PM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Not terribly much, in my experience. Sys and engineering damage aplenty, but not much of flotation unless it's from fighting the fires.

quote:

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

I tend to treat the "critical hit" or "massive explosion" as being equal to another bomb hit. Ammo or fuel explosions I treat as another torpedo hit. Magazine explosions as two torpedos.

quote:

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

Even with so few penetrating hits, the sandpaper effect of the bombing will have driven sys damage up to uncomfortable levels for combat operations, plus the benefit from any weapons knocked out on the ships.

Interesting take on how you assess those damage event messages. From what I have seen with the ammo/fuel explosions I think you are probably pretty close to how it usually averages out.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 57

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 4:17:40 PM

DesertWolf101

Posts: 1445
Joined: 11/26/2016
Status: offline

December 14, 1941

SRA

I've sunk the Boise does that mean I've already won?

Predicting that Francesco would run for the Legaspi gap with the Boise, I flank sped the Aoba heavy cruiser task force there to intercept. Sure enough, Boise, with the destroyer Pillsbury as escort, came into sight and were engaged. Pillsbury was sunk during the night and Boise was brought to heel during the day phase after a gallant fight in which her 6 inch guns did not cease barking out in a rapid staccato till the bitter end.

In Malaya, Francesco landed a small force at an empty Mersing to retake it. I have already cut the rail and unless he defeats the 4th Division it will stay cut so I am not sure what he is trying to achieve. Plenty of supply left for the division till the armor catches up too. I've also started bombing Singapore from the air but heavy thunderstorms today so not much damage was inflicted even if I did destroy a couple of valuable Catalinas and a few other planes.

China

Hong Kong was taken today. The Flying Tigers attempted to intervene against the bombing raids but were largely rendered ineffective by a timely Nate sweep. Still nowhere near enough Oscars or Zeros at this very early stage so judicious use of Nates is unavoidable given both of our elevated air use.

South-West Pacific

The enemy was bold and sent warships charging in to intercept a troop convoy heading to Rabaul. The last turn I had ordered the troop convoy to pull back north once it was picked up by long range naval search near Kavieng as I did not feel right about the whole positioning here - no advanced warning from SIGINT or navsearch just instinctually felt like I was in a bad place. Thankfully, the enemy warships hit thin air (or empty water) and the Canberra which was charged with suppressing Rabaul's airfields is going to be disappointed to learn that they have already been fully repaired.

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< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 8/2/2021 4:19:06 PM >

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 58

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/2/2021 7:00:40 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

I wonder how much floatation damage, on average of course, each of these 800kg bombs caused to a battleships.

Not terribly much, in my experience. Sys and engineering damage aplenty, but not much of flotation unless it's from fighting the fires.

quote:

Also, I got a massive explosion message when I hit SS Dolphin. I know that's different than the magazine, fuel, or ammo explosion notifications, but does anyone have some knowledge on what that message indicates? Perhaps similar to the others and indicates more damaging secondary explosions?

I tend to treat the "critical hit" or "massive explosion" as being equal to another bomb hit. Ammo or fuel explosions I treat as another torpedo hit. Magazine explosions as two torpedos.

quote:

The fun part of the day was when I pinpointed Boise/Houston's hiding place in the Philippines through a combination of naval search and SIGINT. I sent in Nettie bombers to plaster them and plaster them they did. Unfortunately Boise's infernal luck held up as always, and she only took one 250kg penetrating hit. Houston on the other hand is in trouble, having taken 4-5 of the same.

Even with so few penetrating hits, the sandpaper effect of the bombing will have driven sys damage up to uncomfortable levels for combat operations, plus the benefit from any weapons knocked out on the ships.

Interesting take on how you assess those damage event messages. From what I have seen with the ammo/fuel explosions I think you are probably pretty close to how it usually averages out.

Yeah, there's definitely quite some variability in it all. Hard to pin down as there tends to be a lot else going badly wrong (or right) when ships are having those events occurring.

That said, I did get a single 46cm superstructure hit on a USN BB a while back. That cause about 33 points of system damage, so that's been a good rule of thumb!

(in reply to DesertWolf101)

Post #: 59

RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/3/2021 2:32:49 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

That said, I did get a single 46cm superstructure hit on a USN BB a while back. That cause about 33 points of system damage, so that's been a good rule of thumb!

That would the be extreme high I think...seen those shells hit the superstructure and keep going doing less than 10 system damage.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 60

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