RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J)

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/11/2021 2:08:58 AM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Get the Nick NF

Check this, it uses a different engine. IIRC its the Ha-31, and that's not an option with your plans.

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(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 121

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/11/2021 1:10:12 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
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Well, imperial industry and all related tricks is definitely my favorite topic in witpae.

Now, my perspective regarding IJ planes is that 90% of the posture is related to Japanese strategic posture and player's preferences.
So, there is no one-size-fits-it-all, albeit there are various no-brains.

Having said that, my favorite set up is the one below:

FIGHTERS
A) OSCAR. Heavy investment and production of OSCAR as SR=1 fighter for all the war. It's a good plane, the 2x20mm have enough punch for late-war allied fighters. It has a very good range, decent payload for alternative uses, magnificent MVR and those nice 2x20mm. It uses HA-35, which helps in rationalizing engine production and you can keep the initial Oscar-Ic factory forever, another relevant point.
I do research every model but I try to produce just the -Ic, maybe an intermediary one and the -IV. There is no real need to complete the research for every model: say you have the -III in six months, you might very well accelerate it only three months and then switch to the -IV so that you get the -IV in three months, when the -III becomes online and you synchronize the two so that you can upgrade your production factory. I don't know if I expressed myself.

B) FRANK. I love this plane. It's the fighter which basically saves your game. I usually go straight for the -R without producing the -A. I'm trying a game in which I've invested wildly on the -B, which is a different path and which is a better plane overall than the -R.

C) GEORGE. George is a great fighter. Nothing to add. It's just wonderful.

D) A6M5. I go against the general preference of -5c or A6M8 and I state my attitude regarding this: I prefer to go for the A6M5, which arrives fairly quickly and that's it. I don't go further than that since I look for the A7M2.
A6M5c is slow. A6M8 has no range and arrives late. A6M5 is basically an A6M8 without armor and with a better range, it's a great plane and it arrives very early with minimal effort.

My idea is fairly basic:
Tony is rubbish. Tojo makes wonders but it's the kind of fighter which makes you win more in a period in which you already win with what you have: you will suffer additional losses in using other fighters, but who cares in the end? Also, Tojo goes against you when you create low-layered CAPs due to its amazing climb rate. It's range is awful and has a small bomb payload. Last, but not least, its heavy MGs are utterly unable to cope with allied heavy ariframes.
I deem A6M5c too slow and A6M8 not a big deal compared to the investment needed for it. I do prefer the A6M5 and a rush for A7M2 with massive investments.

A7M2 is wonderful and it's a real improvement over the A6M*s. The rest is just background noise. Also, A6M3 is a big no for me.

Late war you want a low-level layered CAP with Oscars at the bottom and Frank/George over. A6M5s as long as needed and then you switch to the A7M2.

Shinden is a safe bet, but I do everything with A7M2 once it's online and I'd rather invest on a IJAAF plane. I'm a great proponent of Ki-94-II but I know it's highly questionable by many. Had a game with it in September 1944, trust me, it's a big deal. In more reasonable games, anyway, you need something for late war and it's up to you.

This setup leaves you with 4 models for most of the war (2 IJAAF and 2 IJNAF), one of which embarked and one land based). Until Frank and George come online, you do the trick with various Oscars and A6M5s, they're both fairly good planes for 1942 and they can have a decent survivability well into 1943 as well.
Mid-war you have the Oscar+George/Frank and the dedicated embarked A6M5, while you strive to get A7M2s, which further rationalize your setup taking out of the picture A6M5s and Georges.

BOMBERS.

Here the fun begins.

A) NELL. You want the second Nell, which is very long range. I love them and I use them well into 1944. They die in droves against any CAP and any FLAK, but they have many positive aspects: very long range for NavS (you will never ever have enough NavS even when Dinah-III come into play); long range interdiction of sea routes (less useful); torpedoes; infinite re-deployment range; almost immediate availability.
I do produce 50 per-month and zero Betty, but I am mad. I think you can do the trick with less than that. They are phased out in favor of Frances, which however comes online very late.

B) HELEN-IIA. I don't R&D this guy (sometimes I do for very peculiar matches) and I produces immense amounts of the model, but I don't advice that. I think you can keep producing the various Sally/Lily until the Helen-IIa comes online. I don't produce the initial Helen.

C) PEGGY-T I research this plane like if there is no tomorrow. One billion factories aren't enough for me: I will always want more. It's the game-changer for IJAAF. It gives serious anti-shipping capabilities to IJAAF bombers, which enjoy a second youth during late game. Good range. Good SR. Good speed. Good durability.
A magnificent plane. A must. A super-must.

E) LILY-DIVE BOMBER I let this guy come online on its own without R&D. It's decent in minor roles but the bulk of my IJAAF bombers will go to Peggy-T. I try to retrain the huge amount of trained pilots to NavB as well, so that they're ready to be emplyed in the DB role, when the Lily comes online. I aim at having very few non anti-shipping IJAAF bombers in late game.

F) FRANCES I R&D the plane without too much investment. The initial model with SR=4 is not really usable so you need the second model. I love the plane but I am generally short of factories to use. It substitutes the Nell and therefore be prepared to the supply tradeoff between the two.

G) JUDY You want this ASAP. I generally invest an insane amount of R&D on this plane because I love the 800Kg bomb of the last model, which, couple with its SR=1, makes it a very dangerous plane for every allied ship. In general, I think a moderate investment on the plane is very wise. I think like 5 factories or so. The initial model, IIRC, has a very good range and you might want to produce it as an interim substitute to the awful Val. It uses a peculiar engine (Ha-60) and this sucks.

H) GRACE Nothing to say. You want this guy ASAP because the Jills are awful already in mid-game: the delta in cruise speed between Jills and Judies make the strikes messed up and it's a problem. The Grace solves the problem. And many other ones, also, such as the giving NavT training skills to DB groups, something extremely valuable.

I) TORPEDO BOMBERS I use the Kate-I and -II as long as I can. I also use the Jeans, figure out... Jills are an improvement but not that much.

OTHER PLANES

A) FPs Produce the Jake in huge quantities. Initial pool of Glen's engines might be sufficient. There are various engines in the pool which might be used for other FP models which have their use in NavS. Some areas are covered well with Daves f.ex., without the need of Jakes' range and it helps in reducing the pressure over Jakes. I produce between 50 and 70 Jakes per month and they are barely sufficient when late game comes.

B) PAs Emily and that's it. I produce the initial Emily which has a 30hex range and I'm happy with it.

C) TRs Thalias for the reasons mentioned in another post.

D) FBs Nicks, but I hate them

E) 1-E LBs I like to produce the Ann and the Mary and use them in low level ASW, where they die in droves due to FlaK from subs. It's still ok-ish.

To summarize.

I produce very few fighters and I do invest super heavily in the very few models I do research. I am not afraid of putting over 10 factories on A7M2 and same on Frank. Actually, I routinely put more.

Early game you do with what you have and you can still perform very well with those planes without the need for marginal improvements.

I don't care of marginal improvements in the bomber field either. Either I have a true improvement or nothing.

There are 77 R&D factories. If you put 30 on Sam/Frank, you have only 47 for the rest.
Let's say 4 on Rufe with A6M5 as a target. 43 remaining.
6 on the Oscar. 37 remaining.
5 on the Judy. 32 remaining.
10 on the Peggy-T (yes, I go that far). 22 remaining.
And here you have to fit the Grace, the George, the Shinden and the Frances. Not an easy task. Note that the Shinden generally gets additional factories in a while in my games.

In line of principle, however, whatever you do, go big or go home. That's my basic advice. And if you 'go big', your result has also to be big. A marginal improvement is not worth going big. That's why any factory on the Tojo (to name a model I dislike and it's generally controversial to reject as I do) is worse than putting one more factory on the A7M2, which is a game-changer.

My two cents in few (but still many) words.

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(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 122

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/11/2021 4:19:37 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

Night fighters. *Sigh* They all suck. I chose the Dinah and Myrt mainly because of the speed.

quote:

It does seem that you are correct and the Japanese NF's suck. That doesn't excuse the fact that you've not selected an army NF. Although you could just get one 'naturally'.

Edit:D'oh, just rechecked, the Dinah is army.

They don't all suck. They work just fine. As long as you choose the right ones and use them in specific ways.

You need numbers, you have to chose them not for speed but for radar, durability and firepower, and you have to use good pilots. Most IJ players miss all three and end up thinking NF suck.

It's a combined strategy though and requires good AA defenses as well back in the Home Islands, including strategic placement of many of the radar sets and big base forces with DP guns.

< Message edited by obvert -- 8/11/2021 4:20:33 PM >

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Post #: 123

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 10:33:18 AM

jdsrae

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Joined: 3/1/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Apart from NavS and ASW, Jake units can train almost everything, but most importantly they can train Air and Def skills so you don�t have to use as many Fighter units for fighter pilot training.

Very true, but don't you lose some experience when you put a FP pilot into a fighter? I know that happens at times, but I can't remember when. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Looks like you've received enough opinions on aircraft production so I'll dodge the pirates and go back a few pages to this one.

Here's a worked example of FP to F pilot transfer.
Not a single point of experience was lost from moving these FP pilots that trained their 70 Air skills on Jakes.
They didn't have much experience to start with, so it might be different for a 60-70 experience FP pilot.

Now that I've made these pilots official card carrying members of the Fighter Pilot Club they will return to the fighter pilot pool, then move to a different on map fighter "Operational Training Unit" to train up their Strafe/Def skills, but they could also do that training course in Jakes before transferring to a Fighter unit. That should also get them to about 50ish experience.

They would then move again to a rear area operational unit to fly CAP100% range 0 until their experience gets up to 70 (or the Allies arrive to interfere). They could also fly CAP100% range 0 missions in Jakes.

It's worth considering using some Jake units to conduct on map fighter pilot training to free up more IJN land based fighter units to move towards the front line bases.

Attachment (1)

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Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
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(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 124

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 11:24:54 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Apart from NavS and ASW, Jake units can train almost everything, but most importantly they can train Air and Def skills so you don�t have to use as many Fighter units for fighter pilot training.

Very true, but don't you lose some experience when you put a FP pilot into a fighter? I know that happens at times, but I can't remember when. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Looks like you've received enough opinions on aircraft production so I'll dodge the pirates and go back a few pages to this one.

Here's a worked example of FP to F pilot transfer.
Not a single point of experience was lost from moving these FP pilots that trained their 70 Air skills on Jakes.
They didn't have much experience to start with, so it might be different for a 60-70 experience FP pilot.

Now that I've made these pilots official card carrying members of the Fighter Pilot Club they will return to the fighter pilot pool, then move to a different on map fighter "Operational Training Unit" to train up their Strafe/Def skills, but they could also do that training course in Jakes before transferring to a Fighter unit. That should also get them to about 50ish experience.

They would then move again to a rear area operational unit to fly CAP100% range 0 until their experience gets up to 70 (or the Allies arrive to interfere). They could also fly CAP100% range 0 missions in Jakes.

It's worth considering using some Jake units to conduct on map fighter pilot training to free up more IJN land based fighter units to move towards the front line bases.

That's very interesting. Did you move them from Jake directly to the George unit? I wonder if they would lose experience if they moved from Jake to the reserve then to the George?

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Post #: 125

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 11:26:08 AM

Mike Solli

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Joined: 10/18/2000
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By the way, I'm setting up my China garrisons so I can free up as many divisions as possible.

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Post #: 126

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 11:50:51 AM

JoV

Posts: 99
Joined: 2/27/2016
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Clearly like many others, your original AAR was my gateway into learning out how to play the good guys. Glad for another run of it to follow

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Still working on the easy stuff. Did all the Ansyu-C, Kiso and To'su xAKLs.

Ansyu-C: All will be converted to PBs. Originally, I liked them for their (relatively) long range as faster (14 kt) escorts, but eventually realized that they were excellent for fast transport TFs. Capacity of 1000 was nice and they usually could get in and out without being spotted in 1 ship convoys. I'll use them in both capacities.

Kiso: I converted 52 to ACM, 31 to PB with 16 currently in TFs. The survivors of those remaining 16 will be converted to PBs. None will remain as xAKLs.

To'su: 48 converted to ACM, 43 to PB with 1 in a TF. It'll convert to a PB if she survives. None will remain as xAKLs.

I converted more to ACMs than last game. They will maintain defensive minefields until that base becomes a frontline base. The ACMs at the frontline bases are doomed to die.

Total breakdown:

Ansyu-C: 68 PB, 39 xAKL until they reach a port where they can convert.

Kiso: 48 PB, 52 ACM, 16 xAKL

To'su: 46 PB, 42 ACM, 1 xAKL

Am curious about the complete absence of minesweeper conversions here. At 1vp a pop I find the little guys quite useful in that role. Moreso than as slow 10 or 11 knot PBs.

< Message edited by JoV -- 8/12/2021 11:51:13 AM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 127

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 12:27:19 PM

GetAssista

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
Here's a worked example of FP to F pilot transfer.
Not a single point of experience was lost from moving these FP pilots that trained their 70 Air skills on Jakes.
They didn't have much experience to start with, so it might be different for a 60-70 experience FP pilot.

It is fairly well known bug that different pilot transfer methods result in different delay and xp loss. Notably using "Request veteran->Release N pilots" option does not inccur delays or xp losses at all. Clicking on the names does though.

(in reply to jdsrae)

Post #: 128

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 2:07:30 PM

jdsrae

Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
That's very interesting. Did you move them from Jake directly to the George unit? I wonder if they would lose experience if they moved from Jake to the reserve then to the George?

I sent them to reserve first, then from there to the George unit.
I did use the buttons that move multiple pilots at a time rather than clicking on individuals, so that sounds like the reason.
I tried it again with 10x 40ish experience pilots by selecting the names and it gave them 5-7 days delay but didn't change the experience.

< Message edited by jdsrae -- 8/12/2021 2:12:58 PM >

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 129

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 4:49:20 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

By the way, I'm setting up my China garrisons so I can free up as many divisions as possible.

Very nice!

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Post #: 130

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/12/2021 9:57:37 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

By the way, I'm setting up my China garrisons so I can free up as many divisions as possible.

Very good. Make sure you use your 'Chinese' units to the fullest. Remember some of them may breakdown.

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Post #: 131

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 12:55:27 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoV

Clearly like many others, your original AAR was my gateway into learning out how to play the good guys. Glad for another run of it to follow

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Still working on the easy stuff. Did all the Ansyu-C, Kiso and To'su xAKLs.

Ansyu-C: All will be converted to PBs. Originally, I liked them for their (relatively) long range as faster (14 kt) escorts, but eventually realized that they were excellent for fast transport TFs. Capacity of 1000 was nice and they usually could get in and out without being spotted in 1 ship convoys. I'll use them in both capacities.

Kiso: I converted 52 to ACM, 31 to PB with 16 currently in TFs. The survivors of those remaining 16 will be converted to PBs. None will remain as xAKLs.

To'su: 48 converted to ACM, 43 to PB with 1 in a TF. It'll convert to a PB if she survives. None will remain as xAKLs.

I converted more to ACMs than last game. They will maintain defensive minefields until that base becomes a frontline base. The ACMs at the frontline bases are doomed to die.

Total breakdown:

Ansyu-C: 68 PB, 39 xAKL until they reach a port where they can convert.

Kiso: 48 PB, 52 ACM, 16 xAKL

To'su: 46 PB, 42 ACM, 1 xAKL

Am curious about the complete absence of minesweeper conversions here. At 1vp a pop I find the little guys quite useful in that role. Moreso than as slow 10 or 11 knot PBs.

That's a great question! There is a severe lack of Japanese escorts at the beginning of the war. I use the good destroyers to escort warships, for their ASW, AA (such as it is) and torpedo complements. My opinion is that a crappy escort is better than no escort. Why? If there is no escort, a sub (even the US subs with crappy torpedoes at the beginning of the war) will surface and use their guns (which work) and can possibly engage multiple targets. I want to minimize the number of shots taken. The Japanese merchant fleet is pretty fragile and often susceptible to a single torpedo. Sure, there is a surplus of merchant shipping, but VPs are VPs, regardless of where the originate.

Yes, the AMcs are useful. You'll get a bunch of them later, and the To'sus and Kisos can be converted to them later too. I like to keep 2 in each port that matters, just to take care of enemy mines that may appear.

When all is said and done, I'll have ~200 PBs available, half of them Ansyus. The other half are either 12 kt To'sus or 11 kt Kisos, which aren't very good, but serve the purpose discussed above. I also cheer every time one of them is torpedoed instead of the merchant ship they are protecting. That's more torpedoes that aren't possibly destroying the valuable cargo in the merchant ships.

_____________________________

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Post #: 132

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 12:57:19 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae
Here's a worked example of FP to F pilot transfer.
Not a single point of experience was lost from moving these FP pilots that trained their 70 Air skills on Jakes.
They didn't have much experience to start with, so it might be different for a 60-70 experience FP pilot.

It is fairly well known bug that different pilot transfer methods result in different delay and xp loss. Notably using "Request veteran->Release N pilots" option does not inccur delays or xp losses at all. Clicking on the names does though.

Wow! I never knew that! Thanks!

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to GetAssista)

Post #: 133

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 1:00:30 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

By the way, I'm setting up my China garrisons so I can free up as many divisions as possible.

Very good. Make sure you use your 'Chinese' units to the fullest. Remember some of them may breakdown.

I finally finished China. And yes, I do break down a number of the Mongolian Cav and Temp Divisions to us them to the best advantage. That really takes some time. I want to get as many of the "good" divisions in the front lines as possible. Good is relative but compared to the starting Chinese, it's actually pretty nice.

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 134

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 1:08:05 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: JoV

Clearly like many others, your original AAR was my gateway into learning out how to play the good guys. Glad for another run of it to follow

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Still working on the easy stuff. Did all the Ansyu-C, Kiso and To'su xAKLs.

Ansyu-C: All will be converted to PBs. Originally, I liked them for their (relatively) long range as faster (14 kt) escorts, but eventually realized that they were excellent for fast transport TFs. Capacity of 1000 was nice and they usually could get in and out without being spotted in 1 ship convoys. I'll use them in both capacities.

Kiso: I converted 52 to ACM, 31 to PB with 16 currently in TFs. The survivors of those remaining 16 will be converted to PBs. None will remain as xAKLs.

To'su: 48 converted to ACM, 43 to PB with 1 in a TF. It'll convert to a PB if she survives. None will remain as xAKLs.

I converted more to ACMs than last game. They will maintain defensive minefields until that base becomes a frontline base. The ACMs at the frontline bases are doomed to die.

Total breakdown:

Ansyu-C: 68 PB, 39 xAKL until they reach a port where they can convert.

Kiso: 48 PB, 52 ACM, 16 xAKL

To'su: 46 PB, 42 ACM, 1 xAKL

Am curious about the complete absence of minesweeper conversions here. At 1vp a pop I find the little guys quite useful in that role. Moreso than as slow 10 or 11 knot PBs.

That's a great question! There is a severe lack of Japanese escorts at the beginning of the war. I use the good destroyers to escort warships, for their ASW, AA (such as it is) and torpedo complements. My opinion is that a crappy escort is better than no escort. Why? If there is no escort, a sub (even the US subs with crappy torpedoes at the beginning of the war) will surface and use their guns (which work) and can possibly engage multiple targets. I want to minimize the number of shots taken. The Japanese merchant fleet is pretty fragile and often susceptible to a single torpedo. Sure, there is a surplus of merchant shipping, but VPs are VPs, regardless of where the originate.

Yes, the AMcs are useful. You'll get a bunch of them later, and the To'sus and Kisos can be converted to them later too. I like to keep 2 in each port that matters, just to take care of enemy mines that may appear.

When all is said and done, I'll have ~200 PBs available, half of them Ansyus. The other half are either 12 kt To'sus or 11 kt Kisos, which aren't very good, but serve the purpose discussed above. I also cheer every time one of them is torpedoed instead of the merchant ship they are protecting. That's more torpedoes that aren't possibly destroying the valuable cargo in the merchant ships.

In my second attempt to play Japan, I did something very similar. Same idea, even a slow escort will keep a sub submerged....GP

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Post #: 135

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 1:48:03 PM

ITAKLinus

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline

I strongly dislike those PBs, but that's the only thing available and so we have to do with what we have.

Generally, I leave 11knts PBs to long-range escort. 12knts PBs to short-range escort. 14knts PBs for either long range escort of 14-knts convoys or fast transport (1,000 capacity is actually quite good). Beware that these PBs are very fuel intensive after all and so over time the cost of having them sailing around is quite high.

10 knts SCs are for the Gozan class, which, in my games, operate in Hokkaido and Fusan area mostly. Faster SC classes provide proper ASW patrols. I don't care too much of water depth since I mostly try to make enemy sub waste torpedoes, rather than trying to sink them directly.

F.ex. there are various hexes between Onshu and Bonins and between Bonins and Marianas which must have ASW patrols all the time and I like to employ SCs for the duty. Their small range is not a problem, given the abundance of fuel at nearby bases.

In general, I do believe coastal minesweepers are completely useless once you have finished the initial conquests. I keep few DMS scattered around the map if I really have the need but generally I don't.

Clearly, it also depends on how the allied player uses his mines. Sub minelaying is cool, but the spots where he can place mines with a reasonable chance of success aren't many and in any case you, as Japanese, can't cover them all properly so you have to live with the threat of mines and just respond when you know they've been placed.

Personally, I even let most of the minefields in Onshu decay because I don't want to pay for the fuel needed for them. This is very questionable, but I have my reasons.

Also I find quite useful to mine quite well the islands SOUTH of Tokio and SOUTH of Nagasaki (don't remember the bases there).
Allied subs don't pass there and you catch maybe one or two initially, but the point is that you get free sea routes to the SOUTH.
From SOUTH of Tokio, then, you have few more hexes and you reach Bonins, also mined, and from there there is a bigger jump in the direction of Marianas.
From Marianas, finally, there is the big problem of reaching Truk. There are various possible routes and it's up to the player.

These minefields help in keeping the dangerous areas in specific hexes and thus concentrate the NavS/ASW assets there.

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 1:53:04 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Also I find quite useful to mine quite well the islands SOUTH of Tokio and SOUTH of Nagasaki (don't remember the bases there).
Allied subs don't pass there and you catch maybe one or two initially, but the point is that you get free sea routes to the SOUTH.
From SOUTH of Tokio, then, you have few more hexes and you reach Bonins, also mined, and from there there is a bigger jump in the direction of Marianas.

That is an outstanding idea!

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 1:53:59 PM

ITAKLinus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Also I find quite useful to mine quite well the islands SOUTH of Tokio and SOUTH of Nagasaki (don't remember the bases there).
Allied subs don't pass there and you catch maybe one or two initially, but the point is that you get free sea routes to the SOUTH.
From SOUTH of Tokio, then, you have few more hexes and you reach Bonins, also mined, and from there there is a bigger jump in the direction of Marianas.

That is an outstanding idea!

I'm the king of "coastal" command to convoys ahahah

I'll post a list of the fanciest ones once I'm back home

EDIT: I have literally ZERO 'official' backing for my statements, but I can see with fair accuracy that you get away with 50-70 mines. More than that, it's better but you simply don't have enough mines in pool to mine all the places I like to mine.
50-70 makes the allied subs scared enough to stay away and gives you free shipping lanes. You can run many convoys with much less escorts and focus your ASW assets. F.ex. you don't need to make intense ASW in many areas because your convoys are always on minefields and they can somehow be safe. I highlight the "somehow", though.....

< Message edited by ITAKLinus -- 8/13/2021 1:56:26 PM >

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/13/2021 8:03:54 PM

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For more "free" mines, the To'su conversions come with mines not from the pools. They can be converted to something else and then bake to the minelayers with another load of mines. Only 20 mines per conversion but if you don't need them otherwise . . .

A plus is when you have a trap with high ASW SC escorts at a base with shallow waters along with the minefield and a SC ASW TF. Any mine hit before or after an ASW attack . . .

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/24/2021 11:10:27 AM

btd64

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Hey Mike, I thought you said that there was more action here. But this thread was almost ready to roll onto page 2. I know, I saw the old aar....GP

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 8/24/2021 11:30:02 AM

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Yep, I'm still working on this game. It takes me a looooong time to get the first turn ready. I'm going to do Ted's turn during/after breakfast and then work on this one some more. I'm just about done with the SRA, then Cent Pac and Malaya. I've never had any real luck in Malaya. We'll see what happens this time.

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/10/2021 2:58:30 AM

RangerJoe

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Something to remember, the US removed the Purple machine from Hawaii to give away but did not keep Kimmel nor Short informed of the intercepts so they could make their own decisions. It was Short's responsibility for the safety of the base, it was not Kimmel's job.

Also, it was an Act of God which kept the USS Enterprise out of port, they were returning from a mission and were slowed by a storm . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBt-ewflKNo

I posted the above on Mike's AAR but I will add this.

Move fast, airlift paratroopers to Indochina then paradrop onto Singawang, Fast Transport a base unit and an Air HQ there to maintain the base and to provide torpedoes. Another parachute unit to cut the rail line into Singapore to Malaysia while you invade Mersing . . .

An AF level of 2 will allow bombers including Nells and Bettys to fly with torpedoes. Without torpedoes but with torpedoes set to the ordinance on Naval attack, they will carry the full bomb load which is good for all but the Prince of Whales and the Repulse.

Another paradrop onto a base two hexes away from Sian, it has an AF of 2 and you can bring in other light units including some Air Support. There is another base a little farther on to help cut the flow of oil to Chungking. Race to Nanchang, I do believe that is the base, and go after Chungking before you wipe out many Chinese units. Just cut them off and bottle the up. Kill the Chinese units after you capture the two main bases where the spawned units appear.

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/17/2021 1:37:41 AM

Mike Solli

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7 Dec 41

Sub War

My first change was to send the 5 midget carrying subs to other targets. Thought I'd mix thing up a bit. Two of them were able to reach their new targets, Lahaina and Hilo. Both ran aground.

But, something good did come from it. The I-16, at Lahaina, shelled and torpedoed the AG Antares, sinking her.

In the past, I would keep just about all of the sub starting around Hawaii in that area to catch whatever I could. It usually amounted to damage to my subs for little enemy damage. I left maybe half a dozen in the area and the rest went to other venues.

My RO class subs will head to SE Fleet area, per normal. I'm sending half a dozen to 5 Fleet, close to a dozen fleet/Glen subs to SE Fleet. Only a handful will patrol off the US West coast, primarily to get Mike to escort his convoys. A few will wander around the SE Pacific area and a handful each to find the convoy routes to Perth and the Indian Ocean AO.

5 Fleet

Nothing....yet.

4 Fleet

Pretty much the only thing here was in the Hawaiian Islands. I detached Kaga and sent her to the SRA to give the carriers there a little extra punch. The 5 remaining carriers of KB hit Pearl. The Vals went after the airfield. (I hate wasting 250kg bombs against the BBs.) Of the Kates, only 4 daitai launched in the morning with one carrying torpedoes and the other 4 carrying bombs. Here was the result:

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
B5N2 Kate x 90
D3A1 Val x 101

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed, 61 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 4 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 27 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 105 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 3 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 8 damaged
O-47A: 2 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 2 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 19 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 2 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 25 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 3 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 20 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 5 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 18 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 14 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 2 damaged
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB California, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA New Orleans, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
DMS Perry, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Chew, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 24
Runway hits 53
Port hits 11

Only a DMS and DD were sunk. Amazingly, only one Kate was lost to flak!

In the afternoon, the remaining Kate daitai launched, carrying bombs:

Afternoon Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 92 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
B5N2 Kate x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 1
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Port hits 2

Nothing else reported to have sunk, but 1 or maybe 2 additional DDs may go down. They don't seem to like 800 kg bombs.

KB will head to Wake and should get in range in 3 days. The invasion fleet from Truk (a NG and SNLF) should arrive about the same time. KB will support the Wake invasion then move to the SE Fleet AO.

The nice thing about this attack is that there still are ~4.5 carriers worth of torpedoes available for future missions.

SE Fleet

Nothing happened here yet, but I'm not messing around. I've never been able to take Pt. Moresby in any game I've played. I've got 144 IR moving toward Rabaul and 4 ID prepping to load to invade Pt. Moresby. Surface forces headed to support them will be KB, 2 BBs and the 4 Aobas. I do have small invasion forces of small infantry forces and AS heading to Manas, Kavieng and Shortlands Island for starters.

SRA

I was more aggressive in this game than ever before. Today I invaded the following and will take them all on 8 Dec:

Puerto Princessa: Will prevent short range planes in the Philippines from using this base to island hop out.
Lingayen: Main landing in the Philippines. 65 Bde, some arty, engineers and 14 Army HQ.
Vigan: Small invasion to take the airfield so short range fighters and 1E bombers can be based there.
Cabanatuan: Paradrop. I took it in a shock attack today. This cut off the northern half of Luzon, along with a few units that I'll clean up later.
Jolo: A couple small infantry units along with some AS and engineers. I'll base Zeros, Betties/Nells & recon here and build it up to a level 4 airfield as soon as possible.
Davao: A couple small infantry units along with some AS and engineers.

I was concerned with what Mike would do with Boise and Houston, and Marblehead and her attending DDs to a lesser extent. I sent a cover force of CAs Maya and Ashigara, CL Natori along with 4 DDs, just in case. On their way there, the cover force ran into the Scout, Thanet and Thracian high tailing it out of Hong Kong 4 hexes NW of Vigan. They sank two of the DDs and heavily damaged Thanet in the engagement. In return, DD Nagatsuki took a couple of shell hits heavily damaging her at 30-39(21)-56(32)-0. She's limping back to Takao and will make it in 3 days baring any unforeseen events. The cover force and invasion force made it to Jolo and disgorged its troops and a little supply. It turned out Boise ended up 1 hex SW of Jolo, Houston is 2 hexes W of Jolo and the Marblehead TF is about 6 hexes to the west. I'll take Jolo tomorrow, but they don't have much supply. I'm leaving an xAKL to offload supply, but the rest of the cargo ships are running north toward Puerto Princessa until the area can be secured. If I were Mike, I'd send all 3 TFs to Jolo. We'll see what happens.

Later in the day, Vals from Kaga sank the Thanet. At first I was upset that Kaga tipped her hand, but that may work to my advantage. Mike probably knows there's at least 1 fleet carrier in the SRA. (No CVL or CVE has Vals right now.) Maybe he'll just run. We'll see. Kaga (and Ryujo, who's trying to catch up) will be in range of Jolo, so sticking around can be hazardous tomorrow.

Malaya:

I've never been able to successfully invade Mersing, so I went all in for Mersing today. 5 and 18 ID, 2 tank regiments and whatever else I could scrape up went for it and they all landed today. I was REALLY worried about PoW/Repulse going there, so I sent the 2 Kongos, along with 4-5 CAs, 2 CLs and about a dozen DDs as a cover force. I must have tested various configurations a couple dozen times and decided to go with whatever I could get there. I had them all meet the BBs and merge with them. It turned out the Brits all fled south.

I'll take Mersing tomorrow and am having the 2 tank regiments, 5 & 18 recon regiments & an infantry regiment in reserve with orders to pursue. I'm not sure the infantry will actually pursue them but the armor will. They'll then attack on the 9th.

My troops are about 99% landed, so the landing is a success.

Finally, I invaded Singkawang. The troops landed, along with a little supply, but Force Z is in range of them. I'm having the invasion forces flee, leaving an xAKL behind to drop off some supply and be a sacrificial lamb in case Force Z get's frisky. If they do go to Singkawang, I have some Betties just in range of Singkawang to be able to torpedo them. Not likely, but possible.

I have other invasion forces headed out, but it'll take awhile for them to reach their destinations. More on that later.

Burma

Nothing yet. Troops are headed in that direction though.

China

Troops are headed all over. The only attack was at Pengpu, where a weak Chinese Corps and a Japanese IMB start. The Chinese were easily pushed out with heavy losses.

Other Stuff

Not much right now. Overall, I'm happy with the results, but things will get more dangerous tomorrow. Mike has a few places where he can disrupt things now that he knows where I'm going.

While I didn't sink any US BBs, 6 of the 8 are heavily damaged and the other two took some damage. They're out of the war for awhile. Possibly 3 US DDs have sunk, which is a nice loss of escorts for awhile. KB lost only 2 Kates! That's amazing!

Anyway, I want to get this out. I'll talk more about other things later.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Mike used his long range Chinese bombers (5x DB3Ms) to hit the oil at Formosa, destroying 6 of 8 fields. Ah well. Such is life. I stationed a chutai of Zeros there in case he tries it again tomorrow.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 9/17/2021 1:47:39 AM >

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Post #: 143

RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/17/2021 12:10:00 PM

btd64

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Nice start Mike. Mersing is a gamble. How is Florida?....GP

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/17/2021 12:39:36 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

Nice start Mike. Mersing is a gamble. How is Florida?....GP

Yes, Mersing is always a gamble. The big question is whether or not the pursuing armor will succeed in its follow-up attack on 9 Dec.

Florida is wonderful. Today is a short travel day to visit my wife's sister. Tomorrow, we leave Daytona Beach and head to Edisto, SC for the relaxing part of the trip. We've been there many times and have done all the touristy stuff. It's more of a relaxing time. I'll have more time to dedicate to games.

I've been out of the AAR business far too long. Missed a lot of details. Here are the ship losses. I suspect there are 1-3 more US DDs and a DMS gone as well.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/17/2021 12:45:07 PM

Mike Solli

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Japanese air losses. I have never had so few losses. The RNG smiled upon me. Not so much with enemy ship losses though.

You'll see there are Pete A2A losses. I used them as CAP over Mersing, along with Oscar Ia & Ib and some Zeros, all on LRCAP.

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/17/2021 12:46:31 PM

Mike Solli

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And Allied air losses. Nice harvest of Buffalos, though few P-40s. Hopefully that increases tomorrow.

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/17/2021 2:42:28 PM

btd64

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Still not bad....GP

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/24/2021 9:06:24 PM

Mike Solli

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Mike has been working the turn, around RL and work. He said he'd get it to me this weekend. No hurry. (That's a lie.

) Anyway, I'll post what I've landed (or will land) in various important places.

Mersing:
25 Army HQ
5 Division - still broken down - explanation below
18 Division - still broken down - explanation below
41 Regiment/30 Division
91 Naval Guard
1 Tank Regiment
6 Tank Regiment
18 Med FA Regiment
3 Med FA Regiment
3 Ind Man Gun Regiment
20 AA Regiment
34 Field AA Battalion
4 Ind Engineer Regiment
15 Ind Engineer Regiment
23 Ind Engineer Regiment
5 Field AF Construction Battalion
53 Construction Company
54 Construction Company
55 Construction Company
11 Shipping Engineer Regiment
18 JAAF Base Force
21 JAAF AF Battalion
84 JAAF AF Battalion
5 JAAF AF Company

I'm keeping the 2 infantry divisions broken down in order to maximize the number of units that can pursue. I usually combine divisions as soon as possible because larger formations fare better in combat than smaller formations. This won't be an issue here because the only enemy units in Mersing are a reduced Aussie brigade and an AA unit. The two divisions WILL be combined before they move into Singapore.

My idea is to pursue with the two tank regiments and the two recon regiments from the divisions. I also set the 41 Regiment to pursue. I'm not sure if an infantry formation will pursue, but there's nothing to lose. The attack will succeed due to overwhelming numbers even without the 41 Regiment.

Singkawang:
I/143 Regiment
16 Naval Guard
7 Field AF Construction Battalion
6 JNAF Company
8 JNAF Company
9 JAAF AF Company
33 JAAF AF Company
85 JAAF AF Company

My goal is to station Zeros here after the base is liberated. Then, increase the AF from level 3 to 4 so I can station some Nells or Betties there to help control the seas in the area. Yeah, I know, no torpedoes. I'll fly/ship the 22 Air Flot HQ in as soon as I can.

Puerto Princesa:
15 Naval Guard

The goal here is to prevent US short range aircraft from using this base to island hop out of the Philippines.

Davao:
Kure 1 SNLF
1 Naval Construction Battalion
1 JNAF Company
2 JNAF Company

Initial beachhead in Mindanao and station some naval search and fighters here. I'll probably send a couple tank regiments and a couple infantry units here to take Mindanao.

Jolo:
Kanno Det
Tanaka Det
28 JAAF AF Battalion
40 JAAF AF Battalion

Station Zeros and Nells here. Only 24 engineers in the invasion force. Not sure if I'll spend the supply to increase the airfield from 3 to 4.

Vigan:
24 JAAF AF Battalion

Fighter base.

Lingayen:
14 Army HQ
65 Brigade
Sasebo 1 SNLF - will reinforce Cabanatuan.
9 Ind Heavy Art Battalion
8 Med FA Regiment
2 Ind Art Mtr Battalion
15 Ind Art Mtr Battalion
3 Ind Engineer Regiment
21 Ind Engineer Regiment
3 Eng Construction Battalion

Main invasion hex.

Cabanatuan:
1 Yokosuka SNLF (para)

This base was taken on 7 Dec. Taking it and Lingayen will cut Luzon in half.

Future invasions

Legaspi (11 Dec):
Miura Det

Antimonan (12 Dec):
Kimura Det

They�ll pinch off anything in the peninsula, then combine to the 33 Regiment, which will combine with the rest of the 16 Division units to form the 16 Division.

Mauban (13 Dec):
9 Regiment
20 Regiment
16 Recon Regiment
16 Engineer Regiment

This is the rest of the 16 Division.

Lingayen Reinforcement (15 Dec):
113 Regiment
148 Regiment
56 Recon Regiment
56 Engineer Regiment
56 FA Regiment

The remaining regiment (146) is at Babeldaob and will begin loading for movement to Lingayen to form the 56 Division. The 3 main formations to take Luzon are 16 Division, 56 Division and 65 Brigade. I�m in no hurry here. 5 Air Division will assist, along with 21 Air Flotilla. 23 Air Flotilla will move to SE Fleet AO and 5 Air Division will follow them upon the complete liberation of Luzon.

Namlea (11 Dec):
II/81 Naval Guard
3 JNAF AF Unit

Forward fighter/recon airfield.

Ternate (11 Dec):
4 Engineer Company
5 JNAF Company

Forward fighter airfield.

Pt. Moresby:
4 Division
8 Base Force

I�ve never taken Pt. Moresby in a game. I�m not messing around this time. I�ll begin loading the division on 9 Dec on xAPs so it�ll be awhile.

Rabaul (18 Dec):
144 Regiment
15 Base Force
6 JNAF AF Unit
10 JNAF AF Unit
35 JNAF AF Unit

Gasmata:
7 JNAF AF Unit

In the SE Fleet AO, the 4 Division will move on to take Merak and clear out that area then on to the SRA. 144 Regiment is part of 55 Division and will eventually work its way to Burma. Other smaller infantry formations will backfill (SNLFs, NGs and a regiment that I buy out). KB will top off at Truk after supporting the Wake invasion. Then they'll head here for awhile.

Ponape:
33 JNAF AF Unit

Air bridge between Kwajalein and Truk.

Wake (12 Dec):
Maizuru 2 SNLF
53 Naval Guard

They won�t land until KB arrives to give them support.

Tabiteuea (10 Dec):
51 Naval Guard

A necessary grab in this area. It�s too important to the Allies.

Ocean/Nauru Islands:
61 Naval Guard.

Adak (16 Dec):
7 Base Force
5 JNAF AF Unit

I like to grab Adak before the Allies can get something there. I�ll buy a regiment to send there as soon as possible.

That�s the list of the main invasions currently planned. Phase I.

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RE: Logistics in the Pacific - USSAmerica (A), Mike (J) - 9/24/2021 9:08:40 PM

Mike Solli

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Oh yeah, I have 48 & 2 Divisions loading as my operational reserve. At least one of them will end up in Malaya, but not sure which one yet. In addition, IG Division is heading to Malaya to fight its way south, killing off the dregs that get cut off from Singapore.

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