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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) vs ITAKLinus (A)

 
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RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 8:27:35 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		As Japan, anything that incurs additional supply expenditure is to be avoided as best as possible.

Beyond that, not much experience playing with stacking limits so can't offer much in the way of tactical advice.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 91
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 12:49:48 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		My rule of thumb is to prevent forts and hit Singers with only fully formed out divisions in the shock crossing, or better yet maneuver in such a way that tanks pursue into Singers creating a bridgehead and no shock attack is needed.

I wouldn't worry too much about that amount of overstacking at Johore...the fighting will be in Singers.


(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 92
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 12:59:05 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Fortress Palembang...you don't want the British showing up there in Brigade to Division strength. Flying in soldiers and some engineers doesn't really bother me...but there are 250+ AV there now.




(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 93
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 3:05:04 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Move into Singapore with full divisions only unless your armoured units can chase them without have a shock attack. But if you have to do an initial shock attack, full divisions only. You can relocated any trashed divisions to reform while also moving in your armoured and artillery units plus the engineers. Otherwise, you might have a unit destroyed during the initial crossing in a shock attack. It really hurts with an armoured regiment to rebuild when it finally returns.

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 94
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 5:01:11 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Status: offline 		Yup, definitely planning on going in with full divisions (I have five of those for this op) before sending in follow up forces (another division's worth + armor and artillery). Was more wondering if exceeding stacking limits would erode my morale or cause disruption before my troops actually crossed over into Singapore. If it is just a supply penalty I am willing to pay some of that for the few turns it will take me to cross over.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 95
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 5:05:42 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Fortress Palembang...you don't want the British showing up there in Brigade to Division strength. Flying in soldiers and some engineers doesn't really bother me...but there are 250+ AV there now.






I don't think the Brits have arrived just yet but I am not sure. Either way I am afraid he has left me no real choice except to go in now. I would have preferred to stick to my own time timetable and wait for the aa units to arrive in position but oh well I will have to improvise

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Post #: 96
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/9/2021 5:15:24 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
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Status: offline 		December 21, 1941

Two weeks into the war...

In China the Japanese forces have won the race and swept aside a couple of Chinese Corps on the road to Ankang. Now I am very confident my advance here will reach at least to Ankang and perhaps a few hexes further before encountering serious difficulties.

Besides China were things are going pretty well, as mentioned in previous posts I am gearing up for the crossing into Singapore (should be less than a week's game time) and some critical naval/amphibian ops south of Singapore. I expect fireworks.






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Post #: 97
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/10/2021 2:29:32 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
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Status: offline 		December 22-23, 1941

Surprisingly enough, I was able to land substantial forces at Palembang with virtually no interference from Francesco. I did raise a big raucous in the Timor area so maybe that served as a good enough distraction.

Interestingly enough though, it looks like the fortress Palembang process is not as advanced as I feared. Francesco is definitely getting units in, but I think I still have some leeway with regards to time. I will hold off attacking the base for a few more turns while I get my aa assets closer into position. I also want to free up some more fighter units for the inevitable Palembang onslaught.




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Post #: 98
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 12:22:32 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
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Having effectively suppressed Clark/Manila airfields and gathered sufficient fighters, I decided to finally take Miri this turn. We will see if I can keep the oil there intact. Of course, it already starts at 50% damage.

In the Central Pacific a Naval Guard unit stormed and took Canton Island on the cheap.

Finally in the Solomons/New Britain area Francesco keeps risking his cruisers in these mad dashes to take down 1-2 point xAKLs (it's the third or fourth one he has gotten) that carry tiny fragments for island occupation duties. Numerous strikes by Nell and Betty bombers have missed his cruisers both here and near Timor, so maybe he now feels invulnerable? Definitely not a tactic I would try though, as good fortune cannot last forever and he is putting valuable ships at risk for minimal gain.




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Post #: 99
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 4:41:13 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Maybe try with Low Naval with torpedoes but with no torpedoes the bombers will carry a full load of bombs on Low Naval.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
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(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 100
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 2:00:36 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Maybe try with Low Naval with torpedoes but with no torpedoes the bombers will carry a full load of bombs on Low Naval.


Maybe, could be worth a try.

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Post #: 101
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 2:12:19 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Ok now my vital anti-aircraft convoy is approaching Palembang so I think I am finally ready to pull the trigger on its capture. That's like lighting a light in a swamp though, and I expect a large number of Francesco's planes to come visit soon.

In other news, 5 Japanese infantry divisions have received their marching orders and are now advancing into Singapore. Follow up forces are getting ready to come right behind them, consisting of another division, elements of yet another minus one regiment, and tank/artillery regiments. I have done some bombing, but not enough to prevent considerable fort building. I am hoping he hasn't built them up to 4. That and the substantial forces I have previously trapped and liquidated in Malaya should help, but you just never know with the initial shock attack... I hope 5 divisions is enough to lessen the hard impact a bit.

In the Philippines I landed a single Naval Guard unit at Legaspi in an effort to draw his forces out which worked like a charm. He railed six units down to finish off the Guard which allowed me the opportunity to land a division behind them to cut them off. Other Japanese forces are starting to push forward in Luzon as well now that reinforcements are starting to come in for the fight.




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Post #: 102
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 2:19:50 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Raise the altitude...if you go in at 7k, you are getting hit on approach by the 2pounders, and maybe the 20mm.. For this ship 13k to 15K+ is much better so you avoid that first phase of AA fire enitirely for the 2pounders that have a ceiling of 9k or so.

I think you did avoid the 20mm at 7k, but it would be very close (on approach only).

The 4" I believe go to the moon, but they are (at least to me) seemingly weaker lower than higher. Developers have hinted at this.

PS: I have found 13k to be somewhat of a sweet spot altitude...but that is against American AA. Commonwealth is probably a bit different.






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Post #: 103
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 2:25:37 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Raise the altitude...if you go in at 7k, you are getting hit on approach by the 2pounders, and maybe the 20mm.. For this ship 13k to 15K+ is much better so you avoid that first phase of AA fire enitirely for the 2pounders that have a ceiling of 9k or so.

I think you did avoid the 20mm at 7k, but it would be very close (on approach only).

The 4" I believe go to the moon, but they are (at least to me) seemingly weaker lower than higher. Developers have hinted at this.

PS: I have found 13k to be somewhat of a sweet spot altitude...but that is against American AA. Commonwealth is probably a bit different.







So I take it that means flak is modeled to affect bomber accuracy in the game right? That makes total sense of course, but I was not aware! I will raise the altitude then, maybe that was the missing ingredient. Thanks!

< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 8/11/2021 2:26:59 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 104
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 2:30:11 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		He has weakened Singers a bit...I believe the 8th Bde with elements at Palembang start in Singers. Not sure about the other, but I would guess that is were it comes from too.

I like the Allied player a lot...he is fighting. You think he is putting his ships needlessly at risk...but if it slows down Japanese expansion, especially in a scenario 1 game, it is worth it. Everything but the fleet carriers, slow BBs, and AP/AK ships are expendable in this endeavor.

He has got you worried about what he is doing next a bit. You should be hitting with a hard enough hammer and anvil that you welcome it.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/11/2021 2:35:26 PM >

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Post #: 105
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 2:43:14 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He has weakened Singers a bit...I believe the 8th Bde with elements at Palembang start in Singers. Not sure about the other, but I would guess that is were it comes from too.

I like the Allied player a lot...he is fighting. You think he is putting his ships needlessly at risk...but if it slows down Japanese expansion, especially in a scenario 1 game, it is worth it. Everything but the fleet carriers, slow BBs, and AP/AK ships are expendable in this endeavor.

He has got you worried about what he is doing next a bit. You should be hitting with a hard enough hammer and anvil that you welcome it.



Both the 8th and the 22nd start at Malaya. They were brigades that I cut off from Singapore and he must have used his patrol planes to fly them out of encirclement and into Palembang.

Francesco is an excellent player, no doubt about that. Sending in cruisers to knock out single xAKLs and weathering Nettie strikes to do so is definitely a needless risk though (he should send DDs to do that job instead). It is doing very little if anything to stop me and I would happily trade ten of those for a heavy cruiser. Now his other moves on the other hand, such as his use of Force Z etc., I think those were very much worth the risk.

Not sure what you meant with your last line. What makes you think I am needlessly worried?


< Message edited by DesertWolf101 -- 8/11/2021 2:50:17 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 106
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/11/2021 3:11:11 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101


Both the 8th and the 22nd start at Malaya. They were brigades that I cut off from Singapore and he must have used his patrol planes to fly them out of encirclement and into Palembang.

Francesco is an excellent player, no doubt about that. Sending in cruisers to knock out single xAKLs and weathering Nettie strikes to do so is definitely a needless risk though (he should send DDs to do that job instead). It is doing very little if anything to stop me and I would happily trade ten of those for a heavy cruiser. Now his other moves on the other hand, such as his use of Force Z etc., I think those were very much worth the risk.

Not sure what you meant with your last line. What makes you think I am needlessly worried?



Got you on the 8th and 22...but he could have flown them to Singers.

You are assigning perfect knowledge to the Allies I think. They don't have that...they have very weak naval search...and sending those cruisers out to perhaps catch an early shipping...perhaps even a CVE or CVL or amphib gathering for a thrust towards Rabaul or Manus or Kavieng or Solomons or somewhere in the Central Pacific or even Kuriles to me isn't reckless. You could have forces heading for an early take on Noumea for example.

I didn't say you are needlessly worried. I said you are worried a bit. And I mention it from things you have said.

Anways, I didn't congratulate on the footrace to the Ankang road...unless he has moved troops from Chungking to that area, his troops should be out of position at Sian and the Ichang forces went there instead. Good job!



(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 107
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/13/2021 8:41:39 AM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
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Status: offline 		December 26, 1941

Both Francesco and I concentrated on suppressing each other's airfields today. He went after Johore Bahru and Kuching, using everything from B-17s to Dornier floatplanes, and I concentrated on Singapore and Tarakan, the latter to keep the base from being used against the Miri oil fields.

Unfortunately, two of my light cruisers who were covering the MKB were held back by some skirmishes with motor torpedo boats from Singapore and got hit by torpedoes from Vildebeests as a result. Fortunately both cruisers are doing ok with floatation damage in the 20s and so should make it out ok.

The assault on Palembang was a smashing success. None of the refineries or oil wells were damaged in the battle which of course is a massive relief. I am bringing in significant numbers of fighters for its defense and there is a convoy of aa units that's not too far off (although vulnerable to intercept during the next turn). I also sent in a mixed cruiser/destroyer force to guard against any naval bombardment effort. My concern though is if Francesco assembles a combined carrier/B-17/sweep operation. That is liable to not only break down my fighter defenses but would also leave my cruisers vulnerable to attack from the air.




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Post #: 108
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/13/2021 11:32:29 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
The assault on Palembang was a smashing success. None of the refineries or oil wells were damaged in the battle which of course is a massive relief. I am bringing in significant numbers of fighters for its defense and there is a convoy of aa units that's not too far off (although vulnerable to intercept during the next turn). I also sent in a mixed cruiser/destroyer force to guard against any naval bombardment effort. My concern though is if Francesco assembles a combined carrier/B-17/sweep operation. That is liable to not only break down my fighter defenses but would also leave my cruisers vulnerable to attack from the air.


Congratulations, getting pristine PB is always a massive weight off the JFB shoulders! You most certainly won't be able to keep it that way though, no matter fighter cover. Every Allied bomber in the theatre suddenly got an overwhelming purpose, and those target circles are darn huge even for night bombing. Better speed up your Singers and Java conquest to keep medium bombers away.

(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 109
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/13/2021 1:44:07 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Very nice op. What's the status of Palembang?

Edit: Forget this. I didn't read all of it.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 8/13/2021 1:45:02 PM >

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Post #: 110
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/13/2021 2:59:54 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I think that is a relatively poor use of Allies bombers this early. Those Beasts are very fragile from a service standpoint, and will make any attack on Palembang now weaker plus the Dutch forces I think are better used elsewhere. I guess the beasts came from Singers?

Did the TB have escorts? I like setting up some LRCAP escorts with range set to 1-5 in an attempt to get some coverage over these early task force jobs where the ships might get diverted a bit for whatever reason (refueling, sub hit, skirmish and become an escort tf, etc). I even create a remain on station task force to act at the target hex, and I have used sub task forces for this duty or ASW, or whatever is handy. Even Nates and Claudes work really well if you are close enough in this job.

This lets me create some level of fighter coverage that is very flexible.

Or you could setup a simple CAP trap over a bait task force and destroy them.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/13/2021 3:02:31 PM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 111
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 12:50:05 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
The assault on Palembang was a smashing success. None of the refineries or oil wells were damaged in the battle which of course is a massive relief. I am bringing in significant numbers of fighters for its defense and there is a convoy of aa units that's not too far off (although vulnerable to intercept during the next turn). I also sent in a mixed cruiser/destroyer force to guard against any naval bombardment effort. My concern though is if Francesco assembles a combined carrier/B-17/sweep operation. That is liable to not only break down my fighter defenses but would also leave my cruisers vulnerable to attack from the air.


Congratulations, getting pristine PB is always a massive weight off the JFB shoulders! You most certainly won't be able to keep it that way though, no matter fighter cover. Every Allied bomber in the theatre suddenly got an overwhelming purpose, and those target circles are darn huge even for night bombing. Better speed up your Singers and Java conquest to keep medium bombers away.


I think you are quite right in that assessment!

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 112
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 12:52:53 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think that is a relatively poor use of Allies bombers this early. Those Beasts are very fragile from a service standpoint, and will make any attack on Palembang now weaker plus the Dutch forces I think are better used elsewhere. I guess the beasts came from Singers?

Did the TB have escorts? I like setting up some LRCAP escorts with range set to 1-5 in an attempt to get some coverage over these early task force jobs where the ships might get diverted a bit for whatever reason (refueling, sub hit, skirmish and become an escort tf, etc). I even create a remain on station task force to act at the target hex, and I have used sub task forces for this duty or ASW, or whatever is handy. Even Nates and Claudes work really well if you are close enough in this job.

This lets me create some level of fighter coverage that is very flexible.

Or you could setup a simple CAP trap over a bait task force and destroy them.


The beasts came from Java. Singapore is too dangerous for 4E operations due to my bombing, but that has not stopped Francesco from continuing to station medium bombers and patrol planes there.

The TBs did not have escorts, which is unfortunate, since only the turn before I has set up a nice CAP trap for them. Due to numerous enemy submarines getting close to MKB however I decided to pull out and that is when Francesco launched his TBs and caught the delayed escort.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 113
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:01:11 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

Posts: 1445
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Status: offline 		December 27, 1941

A turn packed full of action!

Central Pacific

Light cruiser Natori and five destroyers pounce on light cruiser Perth south of Ocean Island. During several night and day engagements, the Japanese ships generally get the better of her, leaving her with heavy damage largely due to superstructure hits. One Japanese destroyer is moderately damaged in return. Ammo is getting low, but I will try to use the remaining destroyers who still have decent magazines to keep engaging her over the next turn. This is the last battle between the two sides during the day:




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Post #: 114
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:10:14 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Status: offline 		Java Sea

Francesco's revenge for light cruiser Perth's battering was quick to come. During the night in the Java Sea, my picket subs picked up a large number number of ships of all different sizes sallying out of Java's ports. The Imperial subs attempted to engage a number of times but had only one success, sinking the Clemson class destroyer Barker with a single torpedo hit.

Meanwhile, light cruiser Hobart slammed into a Japanese task force of four destroyers near Palembang and very quickly sank one of them with a torpedo strike from 11,000 yards!




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Post #: 115
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:24:25 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Claudes set on low CAP work nice against slow torpedo bombers.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 116
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:24:35 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Status: offline 		Java Sea - Morning Air Phase

During the morning phase, the coastal xAKL convoy carrying my AA units and construction battalions found itself only a single hex short of Palembang - it had been unfortunately delayed by several MTB skirmishes and was now under minimal fighter protection. It immediately came under withering and continuous air attack. I believe the larger Japanese ships at Palembang were under bad weather but the convoy was not, hence it being the focus.

The first wave of Dutch Dornier patrol aircraft was driven away by the meager available Oscar LRCAP, but the dwindling Japanese fighters could do nothing against the waves of Dauntless and Swordfish carrier bombers that showed in multiple subsequent waves. As a result, the coastal convoy was slaughtered, with some 13 loaded xAKLs going down, and even worse, two more Fubuki class destroyers and a Torpedo Boat escort destroyed to boot.




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Post #: 117
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:27:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If the other ships picked up survivors, get them to port ASAP and you might be able to save more of the units.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to DesertWolf101)
Post #: 118
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:38:20 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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Status: offline 		Java Sea - Afternoon Air Phase

The afternoon phase arrived with more action. CL Hobart sustained what is likely light damage from a torpedo dropped by a Nell strike, and Palembang itself was no longer under impenetrable weather. Soon enough it and the ships guarding it came under another round of sustained air attack... but the Zeros were waiting.

The Japanese fighter pilots tore through mostly unescorted waves of Allied bombers with a vengeance. A Vindicator squadron was torn apart, and the B-17 bombers that came in uncoordinated waves were also punished. The culmination was a final air battle were enemy dive and torpedo carrier planes were shredded in large numbers. That is not to say that the Allies did not get their licks in. The enemy did sneak in a 500lb hit on heavy cruiser Kumano during this last attack, leaving it with 29 system damage. A number of medium and heavy bombers also managed to strike the Palembang oil fields, leaving 25 oil wells damaged.

Here are the air losses for the day. In total, the Allies lost 60 some dive bombers and 40 torpedo bombers.






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Post #: 119
RE: Where the Chrysanthemums Grow - DesertWolf101 (J) v... - 8/14/2021 1:48:15 PM   
DesertWolf101

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If the other ships picked up survivors, get them to port ASAP and you might be able to save more of the units.


Yes, they are only one hex away from Palembang and will head there immediately.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
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