RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente)

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/12/2021 6:38:22 PM

AshFall

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sigizmund

Where do you check this statistic?

In the "Reports" tab, the "graphs" button in the lower right of the window.

There you can check MPP income from turn to turn, losses, convoy losses, research and diplomacy investments and more :)

(in reply to Sigizmund)

Post #: 31

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/12/2021 6:53:06 PM

Sigizmund

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But how to get such table?

(in reply to AshFall)

Post #: 32

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/12/2021 7:01:15 PM

AshFall

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sigizmund

But how to get such table?

The one Bavre posted? Sorry, I probably misunderstood what you meant the first time, of course you knew about the graphs. My apologies.

The table is seen by clicking "detailed losses". Cant get a table for the rest, have to click around to each individual nation.

(in reply to Sigizmund)

Post #: 33

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/12/2021 7:29:34 PM

Bavre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sigizmund

Where do you check this statistic?

Reports -> detailed losses

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall

Absolutely brutal.

The Central Powers have lost considerably more pure MPP wise than the Entente, and yet...

Actually the Entente have lost more MPP (I just forgot Serbia, but they're dead, also the statistic does not factor in the 50% repair or 60% rebuy prices), kind off like in every game unless the CP player is very inexperienced, which Sigizmund definitely isn't. The point of Entente gameplay imho is not so much to outfight CP but to outlast them. Their units are for most of the game simply a lot better, but their "health bar" is only German NM, while they have to chew through both the French and Russian. This leads to lot of deny and delay kind of strategy that may make the Entente a bit unsexy for some.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall
Do you think it's primarily infantry warfare tech and command & Control doing that Bavre? What's the Central powers tech/dip investment and income graphs like compared to yours?

Must be inf warfare (or drugs). C&C does not affect morale but directly adds to readiness, making it and having good Generals very important in the late game. Things that give direct readiness can not be demoralized away by cannons, so your units will be in much better shape after the barrage.
Tech wise every ones tech kind of ducks here, seems all the scientists are busy shooting each other in the trenches. Russia has spent the most so far at ~2200, followed by Germany with ~1500.
Total diplo investment of all countries combined by the end of 15: nada

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/12/2021 7:36:21 PM >

(in reply to Sigizmund)

Post #: 34

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/12/2021 10:28:36 PM

OldCrowBalthazor

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This AAR is very imformative. I understand that its a big grind in the east..but I would like to see a screen shot or two of the map if possible from either side if that's okay.:) Let's just say professional interest, particularly the Russians.

I have played Entente about 60% of the time in MP matches, and I can attest that as Bavre said, "Its a bit unsexy."
Well...he's on the whole, right..except if given the chance, the Russians break into Hungary and/or Anatolia. Then..well, its some hot steamy action for the Entente.

I would have to say though, playing the Entente requires patience, with a long road ahead of delay, till mid game. Against a skilled Central Powers player...this can be very challenging.

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(in reply to Bavre)

Post #: 35

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/13/2021 10:39:41 PM

Bavre

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Since Sigizmund will go on camping vacation tomorrow, a 2 week armistice has been proclaimed.

In the meantime the latest developments:

It's summer 16 now and Paris has changed hands 5 times. Both sides managed two breakthroughs to the others cannons, only damage to the guns however, no kills.
Overall both sides don't look to peachy on the western front. As far as I can see there are hardly any full strength units around on either side due to the frantic fighting.

After a longer break for upgrading and overstrengthening (and totally not for sitting out the morale effects of the greek surrender) the french ace of aces is back in the sky. After a German fighter is spotted on a swamp tile (neg def) relatively close to the frontline, Fonck is dispatched for a direct attack. In the resulting engagements with both the target and another squadron that tried to cover it, the french squadron downs 5 huns while loosing one french plane.

The big naval battle for the med is going rather poorly for the Entente, but as the Viribus Unitis comes about for another attack run, she's suddenly whacked by explosions from bow to stern while smoke on the horizont indicates the arrival of new ships. Having anticipated the CP naval offensive after them gaining the greek harbors, Royal Navy command has sent reinforcements, including almost their entire sub fleet, and not a moment too soon. The captain of the Jean Bart is later quoted with saying "Never has a french sailor been happier to see british ships". After the battle there are 4 CP ships left in the med: the Prinz Eugen, 1 AH CA, 1 AH sub and 1 turkish PD, the latter 3 down to 1-3 points.

In the Baltic the brave men of the Tsars fleet rally and despite the tragic loss of their flagship, they manage to fight off the onslaught of the Hochseeflotte and force them to retreat.

In the Caucasus and Sinai both sides furiously attack each other with harsh language.

@ OCB:
Just made a screen of the eastern front, however there's now movement, so it's classified at the moment

After a break for some serious upgrading the Russians just started another big push. As a reaction the Austrians made use of the additional units from the greek front to start a big relief attack out of Galicia in support of the crumbling German front.

Since I managed to kill a lot of German NM in the first two turns, I decided to make it my main target at the expense of everything else. So there has been not much action in the side theatres besides the occasional attacks of opportunity. I even ignored Galicia until Austria ceded to Italy. This literally turned the AH corps into little more than training dummies, so I attacked to grind some HQ XP and took the oilfields in the process. I managed to max out both Brussilov and Kornilov, which is otherwise really difficult with the weak russian units and has proven VERY helpful so far.

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/13/2021 10:50:44 PM >

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)

Post #: 36

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/14/2021 1:18:37 AM

OldCrowBalthazor

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By the goddess of war I say this match is one for the books! Thanks for the updates.

quote:

In the Caucasus and Sinai both sides furiously attack each other with harsh language.

Your one funny fellow, Bavre. Almost makes me nostalgic for the harsh beatings I got from you in the two Montenegro Gambit Tests...
Almost..I say.

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(in reply to Bavre)

Post #: 37

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/14/2021 8:33:46 PM

AshFall

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Haha!

Very nice!

Thank you for the update Bavre.

I'm dying to know what Sigizmund has done for research, where he put his chits and his plan.

Also, Oldcrow, the humor and the many laughs from the Montenegro thread are (aside from both of your game knowledge and skill) the reasons I really want to see an AAR in this format from the two of you! :D

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)

Post #: 38

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/16/2021 7:32:49 AM

Wurstkommode

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I just started playing a random game against Sigizmund and he did a Russia + Balkan first with the second wave of Subs also going after the NM targets of Britain. Is this worth it, as it gets the US economy going early while only slightly damaging the UK one, especially as the UK is not heavily engaged (in my game). Is the calculation different if the UK has to fight in France?

A bit off topic but I hope it is ok. Nice MP AAR, not many of those on the WW1 Forum!

(in reply to Bavre)

Post #: 39

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/16/2021 10:34:17 PM

AshFall

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wurstkommode

I just started playing a random game against Sigizmund and he did a Russia + Balkan first with the second wave of Subs also going after the NM targets of Britain. Is this worth it, as it gets the US economy going early while only slightly damaging the UK one, especially as the UK is not heavily engaged (in my game). Is the calculation different if the UK has to fight in France?

A bit off topic but I hope it is ok. Nice MP AAR, not many of those on the WW1 Forum!

I have no idea...

Given a long enough game the US will enter anyway. The impact on British Economy is huge if you shut down all the convoy routes, which takes 3-4 turns.

Having raiders in all four areas cancel out the effects of the blockade (a full blockade does 320 nm damage per turn, a full unrestricted warfare attack gives 300).

Also, the damage to UK NM is actually pretty big. 75NM per square per turn! I dont know if this is counted in both your own and enemy turns. I think it may be both, in that case it's quite the hurt.

(in reply to Wurstkommode)

Post #: 40

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/17/2021 11:04:24 AM

Bavre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wurstkommode

I just started playing a random game against Sigizmund and he did a Russia + Balkan first with the second wave of Subs also going after the NM targets of Britain. Is this worth it, as it gets the US economy going early while only slightly damaging the UK one, especially as the UK is not heavily engaged (in my game). Is the calculation different if the UK has to fight in France?

A bit off topic but I hope it is ok. Nice MP AAR, not many of those on the WW1 Forum!

Slight damage??? I'm just a bit confused, because the early unrestricted sub warfare usually hits like a truck. Did he not manage to shut down some convoy routes completely? Appart from the NM damage this is probably the most annoying feature of the opponent going unrestricted.
And yes, damage to the GB economy will be felt much more keenly in a Schlieffen, when british troops are in the thick of it and have to take pressure off France. In a Russia first it means you can send less MPPs over to the Russians, but the immediate effect is not as big.

(in reply to Wurstkommode)

Post #: 41

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/17/2021 4:33:59 PM

Wurstkommode

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True, probably the port hast not shut down yet. Can the damage to the port be prevented by having ships next to the subs? I will see how it plays out in the long run.

(in reply to Bavre)

Post #: 42

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/18/2021 8:31:57 AM

BillRunacre

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Only driving the German ships away will prevent the reductions in port strength, because that represents the chaos caused in the ports from having them clogged up with merchant shipping desperate to avoid the German raiders.

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Post #: 43

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 6:04:26 PM

Bavre

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With Sigizmund back from the wilderness, the fight continues. Here's the situation in the east in spring 16:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to BillRunacre)

Post #: 44

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 6:09:17 PM

Bavre

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And the corresponding situation in the west:

The fighting has been especially fierce here and both sides lines look like swiss cheese in places due to the massive casualties. Some french Generals even had to plug holes with sabre in hand. But I'd like to take a moment to appreciate the effect of one of the most underestimated units in this game: the airship! The french one in Besancon and its british counterpart in Dover (not in picture) gave me total tactical awareness for the entire battle. In this phase of the game the trenches are so deep that infantery on its own can hardly do anything, so knowing the exact placement of the enemies cannons is absolutely crucial, as it will give you a good idea where his next blows are going to land. Due to the sheer furor teutonicus of Sigizmunds onslaught he managed to do plenty of damage to my second line nevertheless, but without my recon I would have fared FAR worse.
Another thing that helped greately was the Royal Navys shorebombardement in Normandy, which reduced the morale of almost every German unit on the coast to nearly zero. In the end the huns practically gave up approaching my lines directly at the coast.

Further development:
Petain is cursed with bad luck, twice he fails closely to kill a german gun (attempt 1 pictured above), then his (admittedly premature) attempt to recapture Verdun fails miserably. MERDE!
In the east the Austrian diversionary attack out of northern Galicia turns out to not be diversionary at all. General Everts gets surrounded and dies while heriocally defending Invangorod fortress to the last man. блядь!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/29/2021 8:21:14 PM >

(in reply to Bavre)

Post #: 45

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 7:05:52 PM

Bavre

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Emboldened by the Austrians unexpected success (and under pressure due to rapidly declining NM) the CP commits to an all out offensive in the east that has some initial success due to the element of surprise. On a strategic level however I'm very happy with this development as it takes much pressure off my battered France while Russia is in overall great shape and can easily take it. I decide to only delay the Austrians and use Russias ample reserves solely to counterattack the Germans (who have definitely overstreched) with great results:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/29/2021 9:08:18 PM >

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 7:19:06 PM

Bavre

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Meanwhile the Russian navy decides to do a countervisit to the Kaisers shores:

As the germans have already lost half their DDs in previous battles and do not have ASW tech they can't do too much about the 3 Russian subs and the british one that will soon join them. Initially it seems that they are retreating, but as it turns out they chose the Chosin route and just attack in a different direction: a big naval battle in the channel starts and there's even some skirmishing near Scapa Flow.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/29/2021 7:37:51 PM >

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 7:42:20 PM

Bavre

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In the west the Entente uses the break to rebuild and counterattack and finally manages to break through the depleted CP lines:

Also the french aces around Fonck (center bottom) manage to finally down enough huns to max out their XP!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/29/2021 7:44:29 PM >

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 7:49:05 PM

Bavre

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In the east Brussilovs and Yudenichs combined push also breaks through and it proves to be the final nail in the CPs coffin: in September 16 the Kaiser agrees to peace negotiations!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/29/2021 8:00:31 PM >

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 8:04:23 PM

Bavre

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So a fast and furious match comes to its end and despite only lasting 2 years instead of 4 it was no less bloody:

Details for the numbercrunchers:

NM Sep 16:

GB 68%
FR 34%
RU 72%
GER 10%
AH 47%
OE 72%

Losses:

GB 10969
FR 14228
RU 18096
GER 37305
AH 14232
OE 4699
SER 2125

Research:

GB 1480
FR 1920
RU 3110
GER 1730
AH 1620
OE 1500

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/29/2021 8:14:35 PM >

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/29/2021 10:15:16 PM

OldCrowBalthazor

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Wow...this looks like it was a fantastic match between you too. Thanks for doing this AAR.😎

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RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/30/2021 10:49:15 PM

AshFall

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Wow, nice fighting guys! :D

Thank you very much for the AAR.

I have so many questions though!

Like, how do you defend better against the enemy guns when you know where they are?

How do you find time to build extra subs when the Russians are bleeding?

You seem to concentrate the guns rather than disperse them, thinking there? How does one do Furor teutonicus?

I've always found shore bombardment lacking, and mostly do damage to my own ships. How was it effective here? How and what to think about shore bombardment? Why didnt he just get supply from HQs and other towns?

How do you set up delaying a front as opposed to a fully offensive one?

All those interesting tactical and operational details! :D

Would love to see more detail about that sort of thing. Perhaps in either of your next games that you make an AAR of? :):P

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)

Post #: 52

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/30/2021 10:50:05 PM

AshFall

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

Wow...this looks like it was a fantastic match between you too. Thanks for doing this AAR.😎

Time for that Oldcrow vs Bavre AAR?

(Just kidding. Well, not really)

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)

Post #: 53

RE: Sigizmund (CP) vs Bavre (Entente) - 8/31/2021 9:32:33 PM

Bavre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall

Wow, nice fighting guys! :D

Thank you very much for the AAR.

I have so many questions though!

Like, how do you defend better against the enemy guns when you know where they are?

It allowed me to better position my often very meagre second row and evacuate squishy units like HQs and cannons. Was not always 100% possible of course due to the frantic fighting and very low unit reserve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall
How do you find time to build extra subs when the Russians are bleeding?

Russia was not bleeding, Sigizmund only feinted east and did a delayed Schlieffen. Besides Russia gets 3 subs anyway, just takes a while (nr 1 in summer 15) and the GB sub can be brought there via decision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall
You seem to concentrate the guns rather than disperse them, thinking there?

The situation above is not really a scene of perfect planning etc. Everything was very chaotic and I often had to move guns so they were not destroyed and then back in some firing position. This is just how it ended up somehow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall
How does one do Furor teutonicus?

Just a figure of speech. Sigizmund played very aggressively, which caused the above chaos, but also the enormous German losses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall
I've always found shore bombardment lacking, and mostly do damage to my own ships. How was it effective here? How and what to think about shore bombardment? Why didnt he just get supply from HQs and other towns?

I meant the other shore bombardment: If a ship attacks a land unit that is NOT on a structure, it always results in a 0:0 fight, but the ships demoralization is applied on the land unit. Note how in the picture above the Germans do not approach the hex next to my Brits on the beach? That's because every unit that did got its morale reduced by the DNs and most of them died immediately after.
Overall shore bombardement was VERY helpful in this match, not just in Normandy but also the Sinai and the Black Sea coast.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AshFall
How do you set up delaying a front as opposed to a fully offensive one?

Highly situational, but I usually determine where his guns are, try to figure out which hex he's going for next and position my units (esp my guns) in a way that I can immediately retake it (and my HQs+guns are not in danger if possible)
Also I try to snipe enemy guns as often as possible.
If you have a lot of room (like in Russia), good trenches and know where his guns are, you can also try to just move out of their range as opposed to taking the entire frontline back one hex.

< Message edited by Bavre -- 8/31/2021 9:39:10 PM >

(in reply to AshFall)

Post #: 54

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