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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> Admin rights needed to launch the game

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Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 10:25:11 AM

mikael333

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Hi, is there any news when the Admin rights bug will be fixed (the fact that a UAC prombt is needed to launch the game)?
The problem goes back to the War in the East Game. To demand over 70 Euros for a game in 2021 and have such a basic thing not fixed is crazy I think. It seems also to suggest that Matrix Games does not care at all for the IT security of their customers.

Post #: 1

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 11:33:12 AM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikael333

Hi, is there any news when the Admin rights bug will be fixed (the fact that a UAC prombt is needed to launch the game)?
The problem goes back to the War in the East Game. To demand over 70 Euros for a game in 2021 and have such a basic thing not fixed is crazy I think. It seems also to suggest that Matrix Games does not care at all for the IT security of their customers.

since no one else seems to be reporting this, best to assume its a problem with your particular set up and work from there?

Sometimes a dxdiag seems to help disentangle the problem so that may be a good starting point - I'm sure that those more knowledgeable than me will maybe ask more astute questions

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 11:49:46 AM

mikael333

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I think it is common consensus that starting the WitE2 launcher will trigger a UAC prompt. If it is not so in general, I would like to learn that and indeed check my installation.
I think the reason that this does not come up more frequently is that customers keep reporting this for 10+ years (also for the original WitE) and nothing has changed. Also WitE/WitE2 customers seem to be more of WW2 grognards than IT specialists so they simply click ok to this UAC prompt and you get away with it.
Still it is bad security practice and WitE2 is the only current Windows program I know of that does this.
(except of course from installers or other programs which have a good reason to require admin rights).

< Message edited by mikael333 -- 8/21/2021 11:53:42 AM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 11:54:02 AM

zakblood

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on windows 10, most games should be installed as admin and run as admin, then the game and O/S will be auto configured to run and work without any issue, same applies to steam and all it's games.

without doing this, any third party apps or programs running in the background or on the pc at the time, could or may cause issues,

example firewalls and AV programs, plus any that use overlays or autoloading eg at startup etc etc.

(in reply to mikael333)

Post #: 4

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 11:58:28 AM

mikael333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

on windows 10, most games should be installed as admin and run as admin, then the game and O/S will be auto configured to run and work without any issue, same applies to steam and all it's games.

without doing this, any third party apps or programs running in the background or on the pc at the time, could or may cause issues,

example firewalls and AV programs, plus any that use overlays or autoloading eg at startup etc etc.

About installing it is true. About launching it is simply nonsense. When was the last time on steam for example when you saw a UAC when launching a game?

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 5

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 12:22:33 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikael333

...

About installing it is true. About launching it is simply nonsense. When was the last time on steam for example when you saw a UAC when launching a game?

well never ... and it doesn't happen for me when playing WiTE2 (or WiTW). Which is why I suspect its something in your set up as it is so unusual

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 2:03:50 PM

mikael333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

well never ... and it doesn't happen for me when playing WiTE2 (or WiTW). Which is why I suspect its something in your set up as it is so unusual

I just deinstalled and reinstalled WiTE2 and the problem persists. I just follow the vanilla installer and then installed the recent beta over it. This time I installed under Program Files, but previously I installed directly under C:\ following the default proposal. I figured that it could have something to do with the fact that WiTE2 writes the save game to a sub directory of its installation directory and not under a new folder in the user directory as it should be. So I gave normal users accesss to this directory. Still a UAC prompt. (I also do not understand why WitE2 does not store save games under the user folder. It
would be really good to change that. But this is another topic.) I still think the behaviour I have is the normal behaviour customers experience. Maybe others can confirm that.
In WitW I do not have this problem, because I have installed it over Steam. For WitE2 there is no Steam key available yet I think.

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 2:27:18 PM

zakblood

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because i don't know what O/S your using or even what build or version, it's hard to say, add in what default firewall or AV also, adds something else into the mix somewhat, the answer is somewhat harder to guess,

what the game won't or may not like is,

a pro version where your not a administrator, like most games tbh
running on VM ware
none windows O/S
not meeting the minimum spec
Minimum Specs:
OS: Windows 7/8/10
CPU: 1.5 GHz+
RAM: 4GB
Video Card: 256MB DirectX 9+ Compatible
Sound Card: 16 bit DirectX 9+ Compatible
Hard Drive Space: 4 GB Free
DirectX 9.0c or higher

running 3rd party unsupported apps and or programs in the background, none default poor AV & firewalls for one, but as yours is a UAC error

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-10-uac-problem/c95d5fce-444f-4b32-9059-0a3bd0f75c90

more depth in rely maybe needed,

is it a clean install of windows? or a upgrade from a previous version of windows, any version, remembering that windows 10 has been updated and each install is a new upgrade, where as a clean install of any O/S can fix any issue, only given as a example, as hardly anyone has complained about UAC tbh.

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Post #: 8

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 2:40:31 PM

mikael333

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zakblood, my Windows installation is a new install, runs like a charm and my PC has more than enough power to
run WitE2.
Thank you for asking. I use Windows stock antivirus and firewall and have no third party crap installed.

Weren't you the one just telling me that a UAC prompt is to be expected and correct when launching a game?
Instead of speculating about my Windows installation maybe you could honestly answer the question whether you can a UAC prompt, when you launch WitE2 or not.

< Message edited by mikael333 -- 8/21/2021 2:41:11 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 2:54:03 PM

zakblood

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ive never had a UAC prompt and been testing the game for 3 plus years, in that time also ran a clean install of every windows 10 version there has been.

cpu and memory isn't an issue and don't give the prompt message, just saying what the game likes and dislikes tbh

as i also use the stock AV & firewall on a clean install of windows 10, whats your UAC running at, here's mine as a example

i have installed the game in the default location and also have in the past installed it on the other drives, D and E in default locations, but never in the c drive outside of the default made named file folder, only altered the drive letter if that helps

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/21/2021 2:56:54 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:06:21 PM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikael333

...
Instead of speculating about my Windows installation maybe you could honestly answer the question whether you can a UAC prompt, when you launch WitE2 or not.

you are getting honest answers. No I have never seen what you are reporting and I've not seen this reported by others (sometimes something similar around installs etc). So the focus on your system that is clearly creating a frustrating problem that you'd like to have solved?

Roger

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:07:32 PM

mikael333

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I also use the standard UAC settings.
It was basically already confirmed by Matrix that the game needs to run elevated. See here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4987627
So I am quite surprised that Loki and you state differently now.

If you tested the game, can it be that you and Loki run some kind of steam installation? In that case it would not surprise me at all that you receive now UAC prompt.

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Post #: 12

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:10:45 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikael333

I also use the standard UAC settings.
It was basically already confirmed by Matrix that the game needs to run elevated. See here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4987627
So I am quite surprised that Loki and you state differently now.

If you tested the game, can it be that you and Loki run some kind of steam installation? In that case it would not surprise me at all that you receive now UAC prompt.

there is no steam installation, in fact at the moment I am running the public beta exe.

As I say, never seen the specific issue that is causing you problems and I've been running test versions of #2 for over 5 years now

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:11:48 PM

zakblood

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Here's how to turn User Account Control (UAC) on or off in Windows 10:

Type UAC in the search field on your taskbar. (If the search field isn't visible, right-click the Start button and choose Search.)
Click Change User Account Control settings in the search results.
Then do one of the following:
To turn UAC off, drag the slider down to Never notify and click OK.
To turn UAC on, drag the slider up to the desired level of security and click OK.
You may be prompted to confirm your selection or enter an administrator password.
Reboot your computer for the change to take effect.

and no i wouldn't recommend doing it, but just for a test, that's your call as only takes the amount of time it takes for windows to reboot twice, once to alter then same again to reboot and change it back, test the game on and off then see which one you want, as i've not seen it and run the game the same way i've installed it, as admin, i and everyone else won't, also i use windows 10 without a M/S always on account and also don't use a password to start up the pc, as like a M/S account and password, both are a option and neither effects the UAC, only the level of it which is shown in my screen shot as the default, anything higher or lower means something or someone has changed it.

steam recommends btw that it also runs as admin and is install as admin to run correctly, not that what either your question, just a reply for anyone else reading the comments, as i've gone through the list of posts in the tech section and can't find any other replies or comments on the same subject.

edited, as mentioning steam is a general comment, not one for this game, as not released on this platform as of yet

< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/21/2021 3:16:56 PM >

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:13:49 PM

zakblood

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and no i've also ran every version / build of the game since launch and also im now on a beta version, and also no to steam, as not released as of yet on that platform

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:14:08 PM

mikael333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

you are getting honest answers. No I have never seen what you are reporting and I've not seen this reported by others (sometimes something similar around installs etc). So the focus on your system that is clearly creating a frustrating problem that you'd like to have solved?

Roger

Roger, I have no doubt that you give me honest answers. That remark was just address to zakblood, because he told me previously that the UAC prompt is normal for launching games.

Please check the link I posted, where two people of your own matrix staff has already confirmed that WitE2 generates a UAC prompt. So I am quite surprised that you say it does not.

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:18:01 PM

mikael333

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

there is no steam installation, in fact at the moment I am running the public beta exe.

As I say, never seen the specific issue that is causing you problems and I've been running test versions of #2 for over 5 years now

Great. Now please follow the forum link I gave, where two people of your own staff already confirmed that WitE2 needs a UAC prompt.

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:20:37 PM

zakblood

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yes, but if you click the box that gives it once as shown, it never asks for it again, or if you installed and run it as admin, you will never see that box in the first place

Attachment (1)

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 3:48:59 PM

mikael333

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zakblood, the problem is not the popup itself. The problem is that running a game in 2021 should not need admin rights.

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Post #: 19

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 4:11:23 PM

zakblood

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not sure you really understand what UAC is or how and when it's needed to be used, so last post for me here on the subject as apart from re doing the code, it's all the advice that's out there that anyone can offer

https://www.howtogeek.com/709060/what-does-run-as-administrator-mean-in-windows-10/

https://www.techspot.com/guides/1718-run-as-administrator-explained/

it's neither a bad thing or something that's new and tbh your call to either take the advice that's offered or not, if you trust the person or developer who has made a given program or app or game and they ask for it, then for me it's good to use it, if i don't i turn it off, if then it works or doesn't that's my call, makes no difference if it's 1999 or 2021, the same rule applies.

good luck but this is all the time i can give and the answers remain the same, sorry to say take it or try and find a different solution but the game won't be re programmed either way and i'm sorry if that doesn't make you happy but there are and will be more games going this way, not less in the future.

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 5:12:54 PM

mikael333

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Ok, zakblood, it seeems, that you are basically confirming now, that running WitE2 requires admin rights.
I know that you are not the programmer of the game so you cannot change it.

I already bought the game and I like it. I will continue to click the popup away. Clicking a popup away as such is not big practical problem to do once for a gaming session which maybe takes several hours,
although it remains a security risk.

I just want to let matrixgames now, that if they develop a premium game for a premium price, they should follow basic Windows development standard such as storing save games in the user folder and
not requesting admin rights for merely running an installed game. If all companies behaved like matrixgames, Windows security could not make any progress. If nothing else, users get trained to click these UAC prompts away when they should not.

< Message edited by mikael333 -- 8/21/2021 5:20:59 PM >

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 6:40:20 PM

mikael333

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Ok, I found a solution.
The launcher as well es the program exe itself had the flag "Run as administrator" active. I removed it for both and now the game starts without requesting admin rights.
I am pretty sure that I have never set this flag myself. Maybe some of the early installers has set it? Anyway, good, that it works.

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RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/21/2021 7:02:11 PM

mikael333

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I further checked. The whole thing only works, since I gave normal users full write access to the save game folder. If I take this away the loading and saving of saves games and scenarios does not work.

@Loki
Maybe you could check where your save game folder is and what access rights it has.
I still think this is a general problem and not specific to me (also understanding the nature of the problem now).

If you create the save game folder under the user documents folder, the problem should go away.
That should be relatively small effort for your developers. Just for existing installation you would have to respect the existing save game location
or else users wonder where their save games went.

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Post #: 23

RE: Admin rights needed to launch the game - 8/26/2021 10:13:44 PM

mikael333

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Any news on this one? As I found the UAC popup comes from the fact that the game stores the save game files in a sub folder of the installation folder and not in a user folder.
Therefore I think it is a general problem for all users. Storing save game in the installation folder ceased to be a good windows practice 15+ years ago.

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Post #: 24