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How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41)

 
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How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 3:04:42 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		It is 21 December 41 - I failed to secure Moscow, Rostov and Lenningrad (which is isolated). Is there any point in plodding through Winter? Will I be able to muster any effective spring / summer offensive?

[Update]: 3 German divisions in the south have been encircled with no hope of relief.






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< Message edited by fcam1387 -- 9/5/2021 3:48:54 AM >
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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 3:06:17 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Front wide screenshot




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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 3:08:00 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Casualties




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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 3:09:31 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Production / trucks



Thanks!




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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 8:38:32 AM   
malyhin1517


Posts: 1426
Joined: 9/20/2015
From: Ukraine Dnepropetrovsk
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

It is 21 December 41 - I failed to secure Moscow, Rostov and Lenningrad (which is isolated). Is there any point in plodding through Winter? Will I be able to muster any effective spring / summer offensive?

It all depends on how you get through the winter! If you can avoid heavy losses and encirclements, then in the summer of 1942 you can still win the war.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 11:54:53 AM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		I would suggest going through the winter and seeing how things play out for you. The winter experience will teach you what you will need to do better in the next game.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 3:02:55 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

I would suggest going through the winter and seeing how things play out for you. The winter experience will teach you what you will need to do better in the next game.


this repeated many times - best way to understand the big transitions in this game is to play them out.

In general, if your logistics network is robust you'll be find. Retreat anywhere you are some distance from the nearest depot.

most of your losses will be attrition/disabled so a lot will return by May/June (reckon on 15-20%).

the Pzr replacement battalions that start turning up are great for replenishing your Pzr divisions - just try not to release them till March if you can

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/5/2021 8:58:46 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks. Didn’t know about the Pz replacement battalion feature. I pulled all my Pz Divisions into reserve. Do you find keeping them on the front over winter and attaching the replacement battalions into the units works better?

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/6/2021 6:41:15 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		yes, just accept they will run down. Those battalions can deliver around 5-700 replacements.

don't move them much, try never to get them retreated (damaged tanks are lost then) and they will bounce back come late March

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/6/2021 7:12:17 AM   
miljkovics


Posts: 33
Joined: 11/21/2014
Status: offline 		What other say, best way to learn is to play it through.
In my case it took 2-3 times to go through '41 winter as Germans, to get a good grasp what need to be done from late august '41 onward to avoid sudden death and prepare for winter months.
In my current game I finally got through first winter without much of a trouble, even was able to easily cut/destroy several Soviet penetrations through my front.
In my experience, key thing is to have good network of depots close to your frontline (no more then 3 hex away so you can use horse supply) and keep supplies flowing uninterrupted.
With this strategy I was able to hold my line and start smashing Soviet lines from mid-March...will see how this progress in '42.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/6/2021 8:24:15 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone. I must say, they have done a great job with the AI. One of the best AIs I’ve seen for a strategy game. It will only get better through subsequent patches.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/7/2021 3:03:56 AM   
anthonykevinluke

 

Posts: 276
Joined: 8/31/2001
Status: offline 		Hi,

Yep, feel your pain. Playing my first game with WITE2 (played the first version for years) and am shocked at the strength of the Soviet 41 Blizzard offensive. I have taken Leningrad and a front along Vyzama, Orel, Bryansk, Sumy, then out to Stalino. Did not get Rostov or Kharkov. Playing vs the Soviet AI on a mix of 100/110 morale for Soviets but since about mid Sep left it at 100. Now Jan 4 1942 and the Soviets are just rolling everything in their path. The original line had mainly level 2 forts, with some 3's but they went under in two turns and since then the front from South of Novgorod to North of the Crimea is just dissolving. Lost Vyzama, Orel and Stalino and am nearly back to Smolensk in the centre and Zaprozhye and Dneporovosk in the South. German regiments get hammered back with ease. My main issue is that they, the Soviet AI, do not seem remotely effected by supply issues, distance or destroyed rail lines, and they seem to attack nonstop. Is this an issue with Assault HQ for the Soviet? I expected losses in gnd and men but this is a little beyond belief (the offensive is not just in front of Moscow but sustained from Lake Lagoda to the Black Sea! Will continue but this is like a 1944 Soviet offensive not Winter 1941! Thoughts and comments always welcome. 04 Jan 42 and Soviets loses are 3.9m men to my 550k. They are nearing 5.8m total forces to my 4.5m (I don't count the Axis Allies as they are absolutely worthless other than as garrison forces and digging in, though that didn't help for this offensive!).

Cheers,

AKL

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 1:01:37 AM   
PeteJC

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2021
Status: offline 		Agree with all teh other posters that it is best to play through but as a way to learn you may want to cheat. If you happen to have a turn saved that is back in October you may want to restart from there. Keeping in mind that fortification units need to start digging by November. If you are learning there is no harm in that.

Strategy Gaming Dojo & XTRG are two You Tube bloggers that have gone through the winter (Night Phoenix has as well I believe). Good episodes to watch there. Dojo is actually coming back from a rather catastrophic first year.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 2:24:40 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Wait a minute here. I know this is an AI game but...

The Soviets have 4,943,827 forces on the map 21 December 41?

You also inflicted 3,639,698 losses on the Soviets up to 21 December 41?

Welp, pretty much tells me everything I need to know with those numbers. Anyone playing Germany with under anything 2,500,000 in losses to the Soviet by December is going to lose the game early.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 2:28:22 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Wait a minute here. I know this is an AI game but...

The Soviets have 4,943,827 forces on the map 21 December 41?

You also inflicted 3,639,698 losses on the Soviets up to 21 December 41?

Welp, pretty much tells me everything I need to know with those numbers. Anyone playing Germany with under anything 2,500,000 in losses to the Soviet by December is going to lose the game early.


Getting 2,500,000 by December isn't going to happen at this point in time by the majority of the players in H2H. Hell, I don't even think I am going to get much more than that, if that by December in H2H. Just wow on the 3,639,698 Soviet losses. Just wow.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 12:03:47 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Wait, so you’re saying I’ve done pretty well inflicting those sorts of losses?

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 1:11:02 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcam1387

Wait, so you’re saying I’ve done pretty well inflicting those sorts of losses?


Yes, "Your numbers are "phenomenal". I am afraid from the looks of things the German player will want to get 5,000,000 plus losses instead of the 3,639,698. In a H2H game 5,000,000 is a pipe dream within a piper dream with the hopium or receiving more drugs for more pipe dreams to try and get to 5,000,000. But that is just my 2 cents worth of insight. But yes, "your numbers are "phenomenal".

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 5:03:57 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Your casualty count is near historical for the Soviets, and low for the Axis. The one thing I notice is you have not taken out some of the Soviet manpower areas that were historically taken (Orel/Kursk/Kharkov/Rostov). Can you put up a save, or turn off the AI and look at the Soviet manpower produced to date and the current Soviet manpower centers available (in Soviet production screen). Would be interesting to see this. I doubt it's making a huge difference, but worth checking into. Over time, with 41 and 42 being big manpower producing years for the Soviets, taking territory quickly doesn't just get you VPs, it lowers Soviet manpower production. Historically the Soviets had a big rise in their frontline manpower late in 41 when they committed reserves, and then throughout 1942 as they trained and mobilized vast manpower resources (the largest gain in 42 being in the first 1/2 of 42). You are definitely doing well enough in 1941 to continue on as you learn as you go. Almost everyone, including myself and Erik had to replay the first winter as Axis as not knowing what you are up against, things can spiral badly against you.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 6:06:41 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		On that note Joel - assuming the production for the Axis has been done as:

X.PZ of PanzerNumber were produced across the war.
W is the number of Weeks it has been in production.

So roughly a X.PZ / W = Factory number.

Does that compute the possibility strategic bombing is less efficient (it means that X.PZ should be -larger- by default than the historical production) and then Strategic bombing events (Assuming affected by nr- of fighters and flak) sort it out?

Because it is kind of the same business for Soviet Manpower then. Germany has not taken it, Soviet army is bloated. The parallel is there.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/8/2021 8:35:16 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		IIRC, Jim allowed for the potential of some extra AFV production. However, I don't know that for a fact, as things changed over the many years the game was in development. AFAIK, AFV production was never targeted heavily, so not sure if AFV was every impacted by the bombing. Certainly a chance that peripheral impact on the rail net and or other damage could have reduced AFV production from their theoretical max. I think low AFV production was more of an issue in the earlier years though, and not the issue in the later years. Early war would not have been impacted much by bombing.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/9/2021 10:12:01 AM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		Joel - how do I attach a save game? Doesn't seem to work when I try to upload the file.

Thanks

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/9/2021 10:32:14 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		you may need to zip it (use the windows facility to do this) as there are only a few accepted file extensions. Also makes it a wee bit smaller

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/10/2021 1:42:30 PM   
fcam1387

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline 		No, unfortunately even compressed the file still exceeds 2mb.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/10/2021 1:44:52 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		use wetransfer then and post a link.

you don't need to sign up for an account, it just gives you a url that allows someone else to download the file(s)

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/13/2021 9:31:35 AM   
miljkovics


Posts: 33
Joined: 11/21/2014
Status: offline 		So...I'm playing as Germans (1941 campaign, soviet normal AI) and by September 1942 I have inflicted 7.8M soviet casualties (roughly 3.8M captured and 2.2m killed).
And yet, they still can keep their army at around 5M and on my last turn 480k reserves were released to "defend motherland" (I'm very close to Moscow so I guess that triggered this event).
My question is -how many more MP Soviets have left?
I now start to understand how Germans must felt in RL...no meter how much Soviet divisions I destroyed, more just keep coming.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/13/2021 11:22:02 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: miljkovics

So...I'm playing as Germans (1941 campaign, soviet normal AI) and by September 1942 I have inflicted 7.8M soviet casualties (roughly 3.8M captured and 2.2m killed).
And yet, they still can keep their army at around 5M and on my last turn 480k reserves were released to "defend motherland" (I'm very close to Moscow so I guess that triggered this event).
My question is -how many more MP Soviets have left?
I now start to understand how Germans must felt in RL...no meter how much Soviet divisions I destroyed, more just keep coming.


look at this AAR - https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5063609

may help you put your game into context, in the end I came within 10 pts and 4 turns of an auto win on 1 Jan 43

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/13/2021 1:45:38 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Historically the Soviets lost 6 million killed and captured by the end of 1942 and still had around 6 million at the front.

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/13/2021 1:48:01 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		You can post up to 10 MB in the tech support area of the forum, so you can start a thread there if you want to post a larger file and then link from here if you want to.

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RE: How badly am I doing? (Axis vs AI Dec 41) - 9/15/2021 6:38:36 AM   
miljkovics


Posts: 33
Joined: 11/21/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Historically the Soviets lost 6 million killed and captured by the end of 1942 and still had around 6 million at the front.


I'm at November 15th 1942, and here are the stats (Soviet AI on Normal).

So, much more than historical 6M loses by end of 1942...and still Soviet army is at 5.8M (was keeping them around 5M but mud turns allow it to rebuild).
Am I fighting against unlimited MP Soviet AI then ?




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