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Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/10/2021 4:42:08 PM

Macquarrie1999

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From my brief experience in the game I have a much greater need to APs than AKs. Should I convert a lot of the xAKs to xAPs or does the amount of troops transports you need decrease as you get out of the first months of the war?

My shipping of supplies is limited by port sizes right now, and the lack of escorts.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/10/2021 5:31:59 PM

BBfanboy

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You can look at your ship reinforcement queue to see what xAPs you get. Just suppress all the ship types except xAP/AP/APA.

IME with the early part of the game, I found I needed small capacity ships that could land their troops quickly and get out of the zone before enemy ships and subs arrived. Thus I convert all the Dutch and British 1750 capacity xAKs to xAPs (some of them do not convert) of 500/750 capacity. Short-ranged, but very useful for ferrying small units between islands or bringing a lot of them together to dump a lot of troops quickly during an invasion.
Similarly, the 3900 capacity Pacific class can be converted to 1000/2200 capacity xAPs and their 10,000 NM range is great.

When larger units start to arrive I convert about 10-20 of the British xAKs to 1300/1850 xAPs because I find the amount of post-landing supply about right for the number of troops. The US 4550 capacity xAKs convert to 1660/???? capacity xAPs, have a decent 14 knot top speed and good range. I convert about 10 of these.

Much of the reason for converting these xAPs is that they are expendable. I send my APs that can convert to APAs off-map to haul supply to Cape Town so they will be available for conversion later. I do not expect to run critical invasions until early 1943 anyway, and I get some LSTs and LCIs by then, and convert some British/Commonwealth ships to LSI(L)s, the equivalent of an APA.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/10/2021 6:32:27 PM

Macquarrie1999

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I looked at the reinforcements and saw that I get a lot more AKs than APs so I have started converting some because there is a giant backlog for getting troops out of CONUS, but I didn't know if I would end up with too many later on. Judging from your reply, I probably made the correct choice. I haven't considered converting any of the xAKLs because I figured I could just use all of the small Dutch transports. xAKLs are my main source of getting supplies and fuel to a lot of small bases right now as I have imposed a house rule on myself that normal AKs that don't have fuel capacity can't transport fuel. Once the DEI falls that will free up some of my smaller tankers.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/11/2021 6:18:19 PM

BBfanboy

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Once Japan pushes down into the South Pacific and takes the DEI, almost all your short-ranged ships will be out of work because it will be too dangerous to go into Japanese airspace and dodge subs. Once the Allies build up enough to neutralize the island airfields and escort convoys, the usefulness of those xAKLs will return (around late 1942). In the meantime, I withdraw my small xAKLs, convert many to xAPs and use them all to haul supply to off-map bases from EC USA. You could also use some to haul supply from Abadan to Aden or Karachi (if you are playing a version that makes supply out of 10% of a refinery's production).

Incidentally, the xAPs can haul supply too, if you put them in a Transport TF.

As for the units in the US, most of them need to be bought out with PP, which are scarce and hard to build up. The whole purpose of PP is to slow down deployment of units and replacement of bad leaders.

You can haul some major units with only a few xAPs. The Queens each carry about a Regiment and are very fast. Just don't send them anywhere near KB, MKB or Japanese LBA and escort them the last four hexes or so out of/into port where subs lurk. And only go to major ports that can dock them. There are also some other xAPs that can haul 2505 troops with a small amount of equipment or supply. Six or so of them will move an infantry division (lightly equipped in 1941-42) and xAks or AKs can be added to haul more equipment and supply. Use Transport TFs to get the troops (in Strat Mode) to a major staging base and load them Amphibiously (Combat mode) to go directly into a combat zone or under-developed base with a port less than 3.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/13/2021 8:44:59 PM

Lokasenna

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Convert every single xAK to xAP that you can. You will need them.

You will be a little short on xAKs by doing this, but trust me. Beginning in 6/43 you can't convert the Liberty-style xAKs to xAPs anymore.

Note that with an AMC and HQm for the big boosts in unloading, xAPs will unload at a stupendously high rate for xAPS. Take advantage.

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Post #: 5

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/13/2021 8:59:41 PM

RangerJoe

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If you do not upgrade your xAKs, you can still convert them later. But convert all C2 Lassens to AEs.

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Post #: 6

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/14/2021 3:58:01 AM

jdsrae

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Do the Allies really need more xAP?
Troops can travel in the cargo holds of xAK.
They might not like it, and it might be less efficient, but if the only ships available are xAK they can do the job of moving troops.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/14/2021 5:14:51 AM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Do the Allies really need more xAP?
Troops can travel in the cargo holds of xAK.
They might not like it, and it might be less efficient, but if the only ships available are xAK they can do the job of moving troops.

Maybe some more xAPs and it does depend upon the losses but the equipment can load on the xAKs while the troops travel in the already crowded xAP. There is the C1A class that lets you convert enough ships to move a division around.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/14/2021 5:15:27 AM

Alfred

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Some units are best moved in xAK rather than xAP.

There is a nuance to transporting units which is not fully grasped by most players. It is generally not a major issue for the Allied player because they get so much sealift capacity that being efficient is not necessary. Few Japanese amphibious operations are conducted after the bonus period and in any case they are much more circumscribed in their sealift options, although Japan does have one significant advantage over the Allies in this area.

Alfred

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Post #: 9

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/14/2021 7:19:13 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you do not upgrade your xAKs, you can still convert them later. But convert all C2 Lassens to AEs.

Ah yes, convert all the AEs. The rest can be safely converted to xAPs - as I recall, the AKE option on one of the classes does not also have an xAP option.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Do the Allies really need more xAP?
Troops can travel in the cargo holds of xAK.
They might not like it, and it might be less efficient, but if the only ships available are xAK they can do the job of moving troops.

In short: yes. All those divisions...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Some units are best moved in xAK rather than xAP.

There is a nuance to transporting units which is not fully grasped by most players. It is generally not a major issue for the Allied player because they get so much sealift capacity that being efficient is not necessary. Few Japanese amphibious operations are conducted after the bonus period and in any case they are much more circumscribed in their sealift options, although Japan does have one significant advantage over the Allies in this area.

Alfred

Which is... that it doesn't really matter whether it's an xAK or xAP, but what the Troop (or Cargo) capacity numbers are, and which TF type is being used?

Because I'd do a lot of unholy things for the ability to convert cargo space to troop space as the Allies, like Japan can do.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/17/2021 3:47:31 PM

Taxcutter

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I've been scouring the Pacific looking for xAK that can be converted into AKE.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/17/2021 4:52:54 PM

Yaab

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Campaign start:

AKE

BIG CONVERIONS
AKE Ships
Total number of AKEs at start: 0 (takes 12 days to convert)

xAKs (5250 capacity, 14 900 endurance) to AKE (4200 capacity) - CONVERT AT START

Goa: xAK Florence Luckenbach (convert in Bombay)
Chittagong: xAK Robert Luckenbach (convert in Bombay)
Manila: xAK Ethel Edwards (takes 12 day to convert, can rearm CL Boise and CA Houston main guns once Manila falls) (convert in Manila)
Brisbane: xAK Nisqually (convert in to Sydney)
Sydney xAK Lilian Luckenbach (convert in Sydney)
Auckland xAK Liberty Glo (convert in Auckland)
Seattle: xAK Horace Luckenbach (convert in Seattle)
Anchorage: xAK Barbara Olson and xAK Katrina Luckenbach (move to Seattle, use Coastal routing)
San Francisco: xAK Cynthia Olson (convert in San Francisco)
Los Angeles: xAK Dorothy Luckenbach (convert in LA)
San Diego: xAK Exmoor (convert in San Diego)
San Diego: xAK Jacob Luckenbach (convert in San Diego)
Total: 13 AKEs

In transit:
TF 407: xAK Coast Farmer (in transit, in Pensacola convoy off Suva)

We get 21 more of these ships, mostly in the next 40 days � Don�t convert them. The initial conversions should be enough

AE Ships
Active AEs at start: 2
Pearl Harbor: AE Pyro
San Francisco: AE Lassen

xAK (5800 capacity) to AE (5400 capacity)
We can convert five xAK (capacity 5800) ships to big AE (capacity 5200�.) � takes 31 days to convert

Los Angeles: xAK Henry S. Grove (convert in LA)
San Francisco: xAK Ruth Alexander (convert in San Francisco)
Anchorage: xAK Mount McKinley (move to Seattle, convert in Seattle)
Auckland: xAK Irenne DuPont (convert in Auckland)
Noumea: xAK Royal T. Frank (needs to be moved to Sydney for the conversion) -add AM Chevreuil as escort

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Post #: 12

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/17/2021 5:29:35 PM

USSAmerica

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Good stuff, Yaab! Thanks for sharing!

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/17/2021 10:57:47 PM

jdsrae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxcutter

I've been scouring the Pacific looking for xAK that can be converted into AKE.

You can filter by xAK and capacity and USN on the ships list to see where they all are quickly.

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Post #: 14

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/21/2021 5:59:55 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Convert every single xAK to xAP that you can. You will need them.

You will be a little short on xAKs by doing this, but trust me. Beginning in 6/43 you can't convert the Liberty-style xAKs to xAPs anymore.

Note that with an AMC and HQm for the big boosts in unloading, xAPs will unload at a stupendously high rate for xAPS. Take advantage.

Have to disagree with this.

I used to implement this approach until I found in many games that by early '44 I had a huge glut of xAPs sitting around doing nothing and was constantly searching the board for available xAKs.

This could be due to my overallocation of xAKs to the off board routes, but I don't think so.

Once you get the majority of troops deployed to the theaters they need to be in, the need for xAPs dries up as most lifts within the theater will be by amphibious transport.

I have even resorted to using xAPs for cargo transport.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 9/21/2021 6:02:21 PM >

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/21/2021 6:01:30 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxcutter

I've been scouring the Pacific looking for xAK that can be converted into AKE.

Many will arrive as reinforcements in the first year.

You need to examine every incoming xAK to determine if it can be converted before assigning it a mission.

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RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/21/2021 6:39:38 PM

RangerJoe

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I believe that the Harriman and the Hog Island class can convert to AKEs. The C1A xAK class has enough to convert to move a division at one time.

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�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
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Post #: 17

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/21/2021 7:18:42 PM

Nomad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Convert every single xAK to xAP that you can. You will need them.

You will be a little short on xAKs by doing this, but trust me. Beginning in 6/43 you can't convert the Liberty-style xAKs to xAPs anymore.

Note that with an AMC and HQm for the big boosts in unloading, xAPs will unload at a stupendously high rate for xAPS. Take advantage.

Have to disagree with this.

I used to implement this approach until I found in many games that by early '44 I had a huge glut of xAPs sitting around doing nothing and was constantly searching the board for available xAKs.

This could be due to my overallocation of xAKs to the off board routes, but I don't think so.

Once you get the majority of troops deployed to the theaters they need to be in, the need for xAPs dries up as most lifts within the theater will be by amphibious transport.

I have even resorted to using xAPs for cargo transport.

Hans is completely on target here. If you are short on xAPs at the West Coast in the early part of the game, you should look at how many you have sitting around India doing nothing.
I rarely convert any xAKs to xAPs, I do change most if not all of the 1750 size xAKLs to xAPs, they are very useful for moving units about in island groups.

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Post #: 18

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/22/2021 8:47:06 AM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Convert every single xAK to xAP that you can. You will need them.

You will be a little short on xAKs by doing this, but trust me. Beginning in 6/43 you can't convert the Liberty-style xAKs to xAPs anymore.

Note that with an AMC and HQm for the big boosts in unloading, xAPs will unload at a stupendously high rate for xAPS. Take advantage.

Have to disagree with this.

I used to implement this approach until I found in many games that by early '44 I had a huge glut of xAPs sitting around doing nothing and was constantly searching the board for available xAKs.

This could be due to my overallocation of xAKs to the off board routes, but I don't think so.

Once you get the majority of troops deployed to the theaters they need to be in, the need for xAPs dries up as most lifts within the theater will be by amphibious transport.

I have even resorted to using xAPs for cargo transport.

xAPs as amphibious transport.

Like I said - with the AMC and HQm bonus, they unload entirely in a single day (or they did in my operations). So it's like having more APAs, kind of...

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 19

RE: Thoughts on converting ships as Allies - 9/22/2021 12:32:28 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Convert every single xAK to xAP that you can. You will need them.

You will be a little short on xAKs by doing this, but trust me. Beginning in 6/43 you can't convert the Liberty-style xAKs to xAPs anymore.

Note that with an AMC and HQm for the big boosts in unloading, xAPs will unload at a stupendously high rate for xAPS. Take advantage.

Have to disagree with this.

I used to implement this approach until I found in many games that by early '44 I had a huge glut of xAPs sitting around doing nothing and was constantly searching the board for available xAKs.

This could be due to my overallocation of xAKs to the off board routes, but I don't think so.

Once you get the majority of troops deployed to the theaters they need to be in, the need for xAPs dries up as most lifts within the theater will be by amphibious transport.

I have even resorted to using xAPs for cargo transport.

xAPs as amphibious transport.

Like I said - with the AMC and HQm bonus, they unload entirely in a single day (or they did in my operations). So it's like having more APAs, kind of...