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Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 1:37:22 AM   
rader


Posts: 1238
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		If I set CAP at 0% Escort, will they scramble to meet attackers? IF so, how many would try to scramble?
Post #: 1
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 2:06:45 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

If I set CAP at 0% Escort, will they scramble to meet attackers? IF so, how many would try to scramble?


?

Set the range to zero and a percentage to CAP if you just want a point defence CAP. That way they will only fly CAP and any extra planes on the ground may fly CAP.

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Post #: 2
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 2:07:55 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Depends.

Their number one priority is to escort any bombers. Not just limited to bombers flying from their base. Only if there are no relevant attacking bombers are they potentially going to provide any CAP. Whether they do provide any CAP is then heavily dependent on quality of warning on incoming enemy aircraft. Individual aircraft model stats very relevant as to whether, if a timely warning has been received, the scrambled CAP will actually engage. If all the factors fall your way, expect only dribs and drabs engaging the enemy, usually at a significant tactical disadvantage.

Bottom line, don't rely on this setting to get good CAP coverage.

Alfred

(in reply to rader)
Post #: 3
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 6:58:07 PM   
rader


Posts: 1238
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		I guess the root of my question is: with high SR fighters like Franks (SR = 3), what's the best long-term CAP setting to try to get the most planes into combat? It seems to be only around 20-30% CAP because otherwise you have too many down for maintenance at any one time. I was wondering if it was possible to just set them at 0% CAP and rely on their scramble to get them in the air to intercept bombers, but I guess not really.

Probably have to stick with the 20-30% range (which as I understand for 20% would mean approx 20% airborne, 20% standby, 20% scramble, so up to 60% will engage). But is this 60% of the serviceable airframes, or 60% of the total (which could easily be 100% of the serviceable airframes)?

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Post #: 4
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 7:40:27 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
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Status: offline 		I do believe that the computer will scramble as many as are needed. It helps to have radar for detection.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 5
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 8:13:57 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

I guess the root of my question is: with high SR fighters like Franks (SR = 3), what's the best long-term CAP setting to try to get the most planes into combat? It seems to be only around 20-30% CAP because otherwise you have too many down for maintenance at any one time. I was wondering if it was possible to just set them at 0% CAP and rely on their scramble to get them in the air to intercept bombers, but I guess not really.

Probably have to stick with the 20-30% range (which as I understand for 20% would mean approx 20% airborne, 20% standby, 20% scramble, so up to 60% will engage). But is this 60% of the serviceable airframes, or 60% of the total (which could easily be 100% of the serviceable airframes)?


If you want the most planes in combat possible, set them to a very high CAP percentage.

"Long term" and "most planes possible" means you're really looking for "what is the highest percentage of CAP that I can run without having my units bog down with fatiqued planes?"

In my experience, with Franks, it's about 50-60%. Depends on altitude, airfield size, and amount of support.

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Post #: 6
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/15/2021 10:51:19 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

I guess the root of my question is: with high SR fighters like Franks (SR = 3), what's the best long-term CAP setting to try to get the most planes into combat? It seems to be only around 20-30% CAP because otherwise you have too many down for maintenance at any one time. I was wondering if it was possible to just set them at 0% CAP and rely on their scramble to get them in the air to intercept bombers, but I guess not really.

Probably have to stick with the 20-30% range (which as I understand for 20% would mean approx 20% airborne, 20% standby, 20% scramble, so up to 60% will engage). But is this 60% of the serviceable airframes, or 60% of the total (which could easily be 100% of the serviceable airframes)?


No, you won't get those numbers.

Assume a 30 plane unit, tasked with the escort mission and 20% assigned to CAP.

1. The unit reserves 6 aircraft for CAP and 24 aircraft for escort operations.

2. The one third recycling rule means, in the absence of combat, only 2 aircraft are airborne at a time. Dependent on warning times, altitude etc, the total number of fighters who will be involved in combat is 6 but not at the same time.

3. If the other 24 fighters are available, because have not been employed on their primary task of escorting bombers, they may be temporarily retasked to CAP duties. If retasked to CAP they will tend to enter the combat after the dedicated tasked CAP. All provided they can get into position in time, and will do so in dribs and drabs.

4. It is very common for the retasked aircraft to only join the combat on the egress of the enemy bombers, hence the Combat Report will inflate the number of aircraft on CAP but the reality is that the enemy bombers carried out their mission first without interference from the retasked fighters.

Alfred

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Post #: 7
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/16/2021 3:09:23 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Two words:

Climb Rate.

Compare the Ki-44-IIa->c Tojo to all other alternatives.

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Post #: 8
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/16/2021 3:37:00 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

I guess the root of my question is: with high SR fighters like Franks (SR = 3), what's the best long-term CAP setting to try to get the most planes into combat? It seems to be only around 20-30% CAP because otherwise you have too many down for maintenance at any one time. I was wondering if it was possible to just set them at 0% CAP and rely on their scramble to get them in the air to intercept bombers, but I guess not really.


For low SR fighters, I'll run 100% CAP on range 0.

Higher SR fighters, I'll mix that to 80% CAP, 20% rest on range 0.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Two words:

Climb Rate.

Compare the Ki-44-IIa->c Tojo to all other alternatives.


That's not a fair representation, excessively reductive and plain to mislead.

Climb rate is not the sole determining factor in interceptions.

Detection time, weather, radar, aircraft speed (and likely many more) plus the traditional Grigsby constant.

Feel free to depend on your Tojo's for interceptions against Mustangs. I'm sure their climb rate will stand them in good stead in those engagements


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Post #: 9
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/16/2021 5:56:19 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I do believe that the computer will scramble as many as are needed. It helps to have radar for detection.


In I don't know how many thousand turns I have yet to see a single fighter scrambling if set to 0% CAP.

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Post #: 10
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/16/2021 6:18:10 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I do believe that the computer will scramble as many as are needed. It helps to have radar for detection.



In I don't know how many thousand turns I have yet to see a single fighter scrambling if set to 0% CAP.


I haven't either. I almost always have only two different CAP percentage settings
1. 0% CAP for fighters assigned to escort bombers
2. 100% CAP with range 0 for base protection.



< Message edited by Nomad -- 9/17/2021 12:37:44 PM >

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 11
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/16/2021 8:11:03 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I do believe that the computer will scramble as many as are needed. It helps to have radar for detection.


In I don't know how many thousand turns I have yet to see a single fighter scrambling if set to 0% CAP.


Not if it is set to 0% CAP but if it does have 10% CAP or more.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 12
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/17/2021 8:02:04 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: rader

I guess the root of my question is: with high SR fighters like Franks (SR = 3), what's the best long-term CAP setting to try to get the most planes into combat? It seems to be only around 20-30% CAP because otherwise you have too many down for maintenance at any one time. I was wondering if it was possible to just set them at 0% CAP and rely on their scramble to get them in the air to intercept bombers, but I guess not really.


For low SR fighters, I'll run 100% CAP on range 0.

Higher SR fighters, I'll mix that to 80% CAP, 20% rest on range 0.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Two words:

Climb Rate.

Compare the Ki-44-IIa->c Tojo to all other alternatives.


That's not a fair representation, excessively reductive and plain to mislead.

Climb rate is not the sole determining factor in interceptions.

Detection time, weather, radar, aircraft speed (and likely many more) plus the traditional Grigsby constant.

Feel free to depend on your Tojo's for interceptions against Mustangs. I'm sure their climb rate will stand them in good stead in those engagements




A typical strawman from you.

Nowhere did I say "Climb rate is the sole determining factor".





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Post #: 13
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/17/2021 2:55:24 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

A typical strawman from you.

Nowhere did I say "Climb rate is the sole determining factor".



That's correct.

What you said was:

quote:

Two words:

Climb Rate.

Compare the Ki-44-IIa->c Tojo to all other alternatives.


Any reasonable reading of your post would suggest to those reading that climb rate is the sole factor worth mentioning, which is absolutely not the case.

So yes, you did not say the specific sentence of "climb rate is the sole determining factor", but the implication is clear given the reductive nature of what you did say.

There's no strawman from me, and there's no need to get your hackles up over having your causal oversimplification pointed out to you :)

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 14
RE: Reaction CAP - 9/18/2021 11:00:15 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		Now you're just making it up as you go along. Stop digging.

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Post #: 15
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