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Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 4:40:03 AM

voodoor22

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Joined: 9/27/2021
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Hey everyone just a quick question. I'm trying to do every scenario that comes pre-loaded with the game, tutorials, live, bought all DLCs as well, and so on.

I see that in "Standalone scenarios" there are 3 scenarios (pic attached) which have what look to be duplicates. The scenarios look identical and the briefings too. They are "Duelists", "Fighter Weapons School", and "Maria & Victoria".

Just want to make sure these are not in fact subtly different scenarios and are just accidental copies?

Thanks everyone!

< Message edited by voodoor22 -- 9/29/2021 5:50:54 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 2:15:40 PM

rixtertech

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Joined: 12/30/2001
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A quick look at the scenario directory shows different file sizes between each pair, so they are definitely not simple duplicates that differ only in filename. That doesn't mean they are not functionally the same, so your question still stands open. I took my 1st look at the scenario editor using Duelist2 just now to see if anything was easy to check and OMG it is not as simple as looking for a version number or dev notes or change log, so lets hope someone comes along to answer this interesting question. I suspect its going to boil down to evolving versions of the ScenEditor and/or simple human error while editing/updating scenarios, but that leaves the question... which filenames are the actual current versions, and which are just old cruft we can delete?

< Message edited by rixtertech -- 9/29/2021 2:18:32 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 2:22:54 PM

voodoor22

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Great response, thanks rixertech. We definitely need someone to clarify all this if they can!

Yes I checked all 3 and noticed some differences, I believe in two of the scenarios I referenced there were changes related to the game build? (Though not sure if that was the only change.) But on one, I think it was Maria & Victoria, there were no changes to the game build but many differences in scenario editing.

For example the reference points and time of scenario were different but I didn't bother to check how deep the differences go. I did think I saw that Duelists was one of the scenarios were the changes included optimization or whatever for different game versions, though again not sure how the deep the differences go beyond that.

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Post #: 3

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 2:44:24 PM

Patmanaut

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Hi:

I designed the original Mar�a & Victoria scenario back in 2014.
Is seems some of the dev guys have created a better and more realistic version called Maria and Victoria. (Paul, if it was you, you did a great job.)
I would suggest them to get rid of my original scenario unless someone would find it useful as template.

Saludos,
P.

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Post #: 4

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 3:03:43 PM

voodoor22

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Joined: 9/27/2021
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Thanks for the response. I haven't tried it yet but looks interesting. If there are many changes then maybe it can be seen as variations of a scenario and can be kept. The other two, "Duelist" and "Fighter Weapons School" appear to have duplicates that bear no discernable difference though.

(in reply to Patmanaut)

Post #: 5

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 3:47:38 PM

stilesw

Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/26/2014
From: Hansville, WA, USA
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Hi John.

Here is a useful tool provided by forum member Lunex. I've found it quite useful in keeping track of the 1700+ scenarios I've collected.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4252693

Try it out.

-Wayne Stiles

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Post #: 6

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 4:10:39 PM

voodoor22

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Thanks that could be a nice tool to use for other stuff but I'm not sure it'll tell me if there are any differences between these duplicated scenarios that are actually relevant as opposed to simple stuff like optimizing one scenario for a new version of the game, fixing errors, etc.

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Post #: 7

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 5:00:54 PM

BobTank63

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Joined: 9/23/2021
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Yeah, I would like to know the differences between these scenarios too. (Maria and Victoria is the right one for those two, but I don't know about the others). The tool provided does not seem to be what we are looking for.

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Post #: 8

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 5:13:02 PM

BDukes

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The devs can clean this up by scripting a delete in the next installer. Some of these are my original designs but could care less at this point. They're old. Time to start thinking new. Maybe somebody will copy or make version 2 of my next batch

Mike

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Post #: 9

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 5:20:14 PM

thewood1

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Its not that hard. Go by the date. The older ones from 2018/19/20 are left overs from CMNAO and patches. As they got updated, the old ones had their names cleaned up and the old scen files didn't get replaced in the build. Thats my guess. If it really is an issue for how you play the game, just delete the 2018/19/20 version. The two I see in my clean install are:

Fighter Weapons School - GAT 5 and 6, 1977
Maria & Victoria, 1982

Duelists has two versions, one with 1989 in the title and one with a 2. There are a couple more that have the same name, but different years. I assuming those had significant enough updates that they left the old versions also with older dates in the title.

Thats from a clean install. If you installed CMO over CMNAO, against the advice of the devs, you will probably have more duplicates than that.

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RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 5:47:37 PM

voodoor22

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Clearly it is that hard for you, as you already made the mistake of assuming "Maria & Victoria" is the newer one when it's not. Try not to assume things about everyone else when you are making such simple mistakes and perhaps read previous messages too as the dev of that scenario is here commenting on it and saying it should be deleted as the new one is "Maria and Victoria".

Also, I have a clean install and haven't modified anything so these are silly assumptions based on nothing. Looks like you ended up as one of the few with only the old version of a scenario somehow too.

"There are a couple more that have the same name, but different years"

Uhh you sure you're not running an old version of the game, most of those were cleaned up in earlier updates, there's only 3 that look like duplicates now.

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Post #: 11

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 5:59:46 PM

BobTank63

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Clean install here as well.

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Post #: 12

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 6:11:30 PM

BDukes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voodoor22

Clearly it is that hard for you, as you already made the mistake of assuming "Maria & Victoria" is the newer one when it's not. Try not to assume things about everyone else when you are making such simple mistakes and perhaps read previous messages too as the dev of that scenario is here commenting on it and saying it should be deleted as the new one is "Maria and Victoria".

Also, I have a clean install and haven't modified anything so these are silly assumptions based on nothing. Looks like you ended up as one of the few with only the old version of a scenario somehow too.

"There are a couple more that have the same name, but different years"

Uhh you sure you're not running an old version of the game, most of those were cleaned up in earlier updates, there's only 3 that look like duplicates now.

Not a current dev and the clean up was a suggestion.

Don't get so spooled up about this stuff. It's a very minor annoyance, but that's it. Most are trying to help.

Mike

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Post #: 13

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 6:30:09 PM

voodoor22

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I was referring to Patmanaut but yes thanks. I don�t think it�s the end of the world, a minor convenience at best. Was just wondering.

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Post #: 14

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 7:15:09 PM

thewood1

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My point is that there are a couple duplicates with name changes and a 2-3 more that are renamed with different dates. Sort by date and delete the .scen files. Or move them to another folder. Again, its a simple solution until its permanently fixed. No special tools, no scenario authors needed, etc.

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Post #: 15

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 7:29:57 PM

voodoor22

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There�s only 3 left actually so you might be on a different build or accidentally downloaded variations on a scenario.

Yes it�s no big deal, just sought confirmation from anyone who might know if there are *other things* other than what you�ve mentioned as reasons for their being duplicates of these scenarios. I could have jumped in and checked myself but knew I�d get quicker answers here.

And as the scenario editor of Maria & Victoria attested to, there is in fact a large difference between his one and the duplicate.

< Message edited by voodoor22 -- 9/29/2021 7:31:14 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 8:09:47 PM

rixtertech

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Joined: 12/30/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

My point is that there are a couple duplicates with name changes and a 2-3 more that are renamed with different dates. Sort by date and delete the .scen files. Or move them to another folder. Again, its a simple solution until its permanently fixed. No special tools, no scenario authors needed, etc.

I uninstalled my FTP CMO last month and reinstalled from Steam to get away from the truly crappy FTP/GDrive mishmash patch process that's been going on for far too long. In my freshly installed Scenarios directories every datestamp shows the date last month when I did the Steam install, so your idea won't work for everyone, even people who didn't install from Steam but may have touched or copied .scen files after the install.

It would be nice if anyone who publishes a newly edited scenario would put a %^#! datestamp, name and maybe even a few short words about what they changed and why it was a good idea. Nah, probably makes too much sense...uuurgh.

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RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 8:30:10 PM

BobTank63

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There are actually 4. "Battle of Dong Hai" vs. "The Battle of Dong Hai". It's easy to tell that the latter is the correct one because the former has many errors, however, it would be much appreciated if a dev came here and cleared up which one is which for the others so we can safely delete them.

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Post #: 18

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 8:40:26 PM

voodoor22

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Actually I only have the latter on that one ("The Battle of Dong Hai"). I think the Steam version of the game is more streamlined in updates or something. Guessing you�re not using Steam?

< Message edited by voodoor22 -- 9/29/2021 8:41:06 PM >

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Post #: 19

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 8:53:28 PM

BobTank63

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I am using Steam. I remember it being there once and then mentioning it in a bug report. Maybe they removed it since I last checked?

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Post #: 20

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 9:03:40 PM

voodoor22

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Doesn�t show up for me. Maybe check and let us know!

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RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 9:58:02 PM

KnightHawk75

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quote:

The devs can clean this up by scripting a delete in the next installer.

Please dear god no, scripting of deleting existing scenario files during install or game start on a persons system is a bad idea unless critical for the app to function. Someone may want said file or self-fixed it already, or any number of things. Replace existing named files with same named updated versions is fine.
If one wants perfectly clean folders, one can just remove all and reinstall (or remove a bunch and then re-verify in Steam), or as thewood said do date-diffs on the few that look like dupes (either cause they are or their file names changed along the way) and remove them. Now if the installer(s) or steam themselves are distributing dups by mistake in addition to newer ones that's an issue for the installer in question to just stop doing that moving forward.

quote:

It would be nice if anyone who publishes a newly edited scenario would put a %^#! datestamp, name and maybe even a few short words about what they changed and why it was a good idea. Nah, probably makes too much sense...uuurgh.

You mean in the embedded scene description, yeah that would be helpful at the bottom, or a simple verXX would do in filenames.

< Message edited by KnightHawk75 -- 9/29/2021 9:59:36 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Scenario duplicates? - 9/29/2021 10:14:43 PM

rixtertech

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I have both versions of Dong Hai and my Steam install was done just last month on 20210814. Other than @Patmanaut 's kind clarification for "Maria and Victoria" (good) vs "Maria & Victoria" (bad) I think we can only hope this gets straightened out by Matrix, maybe, someday. I'm sure there are more urgent issues that will be fixed first... maybe, someday. For my part I'm going to DL that Lunex tool mentioned above, and move on.

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Post #: 23