RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI

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[Poll]

Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI

Naval Hexes as it currently is

45% (25)

Naval areas like Hearts of Iron

54% (30)

Total Votes : 55

(last vote on : 2/21/2022 6:15:08 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

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RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 10/8/2021 6:10:33 PM

PHalen

Posts: 128
Joined: 12/26/2016
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Definitely sea zones/naval areas for me!!!
That concept map looks both GREAT and thought through.
Just do it!
Please�

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 31

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 10/8/2021 6:47:46 PM

sveint

Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline

I'm not voting on this one, I have no idea what is better. Alvaro knows best I think.

(in reply to PHalen)

Post #: 32

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/7/2022 6:29:43 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

So this is an update to this idea while I am working on my next game which will use WP2 engine.

After much consideration I decided to stick with hex movement and not make sea zones.
#1 The coding for it is much more complex than I had thought.
#2 It will take a lot of testing to validate basically starting over.
#3 The UI to handle it would be overly complex

But I am expanding the idea to the current system. So these are now my considerations.
#1 Fleets will have specific missions.
#2 Fleets will have specific interception rules and yes it will be along a path.
#3 Fleets will have a lot of operation points, 1 per hex move, and X amount for an action.
#4 Fleets will have a dynamic sea zone around them. Meaning you won't have to walk up to the coast to disembark. You can do bombardment, invasions, air striks from a radius near your destination hex.
#5 maybe I will have coastal sea hexes and deep sea hexes simplifying the spotting to 2 different checks in stead of pure distance.
#6 I am seriously considering a separate naval phase before land phase. Due to some of the issues in WPE and WPP for invasions. Basically the general rule will be you can only perform a mission in an area with no enemy fleets. Naval battles during the naval phase will end up with one side staying, one side being destroyed, or one side retreating back to base. Naval phase would be broken into MOVE, COMBAT, MISSION, RETURN TO BASE MOVE optional.
#7 Other considerations are back to large stacks BUT you can only assign X number of ships to a mission. Much like a sea zone. So you can only assign say 6 to combat action, 6 to invasion, and 6 to bombardment. But not sure yet here.
#8 This system will also improve the A.I. as the coding for it will be easier. I don't have to be so precise.
#9 Fleets will have a mission radius and an intercept radius. Mission is specific, intercept is patrolling. I was taking a look at how HOI4 does it.
#10 players can toggle showing current dynamic sea zones (where visible enemies are and their radius)

I think it will make the naval system more dynamic and interesting while retaining the basic structure of what is already working with what you all want interception along the way. I think this will make both sides of the poll happy.

Here is a picture

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AlvaroSousa -- 2/7/2022 6:30:30 PM >

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 33

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/7/2022 9:27:06 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

Good news for me that you are keeping hexes. This looks promising.

Will it be possible to assign different air missions for CV planes?
Are you considering splitting CV based planes in fighters, dive bombers, torpedo bombers?
Will it be possible to detach a CV air group from its CV to put it on an island for example?

Will you enhance the interception and sinking of transports or merchant marines doing port supply?
Will you increase transports or merchant marines needs in function of port capacity?

Thanks

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 34

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/7/2022 10:14:30 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

None of this has been thought out yet. I just want to merge both ideas to make it work.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to ncc1701e)

Post #: 35

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/8/2022 3:45:44 PM

michelzzt

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/12/2010
From: Cognac - France
Status: offline

It seems that there are a lot of differences in the pebm games because I am the allied player and my opponent's Uboats are invincible, while my escorts are in advancement 1940

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Michel

(in reply to baloo7777)

Post #: 36

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/8/2022 4:33:13 PM

Nirosi

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: offline

Hi Alvaro,

It would be really nice if ships could intercept from port. Ideally with a box we could activate only on the ships that we want to allow to do so.

(in reply to michelzzt)

Post #: 37

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/8/2022 5:28:07 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

That is one of the reasons I want this model. That way you can flag a group of ships in port to intercept.
Or at the very least you send them out on patrol and they cover an area.

I invented, or more like discovered, how to do it without much CPU impact. I can't imagine other devs not doing it the way I am thinking of but who knows.

Basically I want WP2 naval to be similar in flexibility as HOI naval without all the micromanagement.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 38

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/8/2022 5:32:28 PM

Nirosi

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: offline

quote:

That way you can flag a group of ships in port to intercept.

That is great! Thanks again!

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 39

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/15/2022 7:32:28 PM

AllenK

Posts: 7259
Joined: 2/17/2014
From: England
Status: offline

This fleet mission concept and a separate naval phase looks good.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 2/15/2022 7:33:31 PM >

(in reply to Nirosi)

Post #: 40

RE: Ocean Hexes or Ocean areas similar to HoI - 2/19/2022 7:32:16 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Well more working through it and formulating all the variations I have come up with a different conclusions. Some of the things with fixes sea zones were an issue as were a separate naval phase.

You will still have missions.
You will still have dynamic sea zones.

The big issue is invasion and transport.

So a couple things I am making better expanding on the current system.
#1 every possible land hex will have an invasion zone or coastal hex.
#2 no units stuck on beaches with no land.
#3 you have to have control in your dynamic sea zone to invade or transport.
#4 to invade you need to be real close to your objective. So say I make all fleets have 48 operation points (2 opt moves currently) You will need 40 points to invade or disembark to coast.
#5 invasions still have to go up to the coast. Doing it the other way created all sorts of positioning issues and exploits.

One of the issues with interception from port I found is that the fleet could be baited out and destroyed by a second fleet.
Separate naval/land phases gave a huge advantage to the person moving second assuming you had to move one turn and unload the next.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to AllenK)

Post #: 41