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Anti-Air Question - 10/8/2021 11:35:54 PM   
JorMallester

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 2/11/2021
Status: offline 		Hello!

I have read that DP guns protect the whole task force, while AAA guns just protect the ship they are located on.

Let's say I have an Amphibious TF with just AK's and a Surface Combat TF with a CL and a couple of DD's with good DP Guns. This Surface Combat TF is following the previously mentioned Amphibious TF at a distance of 0.

If the Amphibious TF were to come under air attack, would the DP guns of the Surface Combat TF have any effect in the defense of this Amphibious TF (assuming they are in the same hex, but in separate TF's), or do they only have an effect on ships that are attacked within the Surface Combat TF itself.

Sorry if this sounds silly, I am just wondering if it would be better for me to merge these two imaginary TF's or keep them divided.

Any feedback is welcome!

Thank you for your time!
Post #: 1
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/9/2021 12:48:18 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JorMallester

Hello!

I have read that DP guns protect the whole task force, while AAA guns just protect the ship they are located on...



Not correct.

There is no separate DP combat routine. A DP device operates under the flak routines when used in an surface-air role, and the naval gun routines when used in a surface-surface role.

Alfred

(in reply to JorMallester)
Post #: 2
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/9/2021 1:18:33 AM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		DP = dual purpose. AAA and surface....GP

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Post #: 3
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/9/2021 1:21:26 AM   
JorMallester

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 2/11/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: JorMallester

Hello!

I have read that DP guns protect the whole task force, while AAA guns just protect the ship they are located on...



Not correct.

There is no separate DP combat routine. A DP device operates under the flak routines when used in an surface-air role, and the naval gun routines when used in a surface-surface role.

Alfred


Ah okay understood! It was something I read on a forum post from long ago, I may have even misread it.

As for the two task forces, would it be better to merge them? I understand this would be very circumstantial, but if I wanted a "Cover" force, would the AA values of this cover force still protect the followed TF?

< Message edited by JorMallester -- 10/9/2021 1:22:33 AM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 4
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/9/2021 5:37:15 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JorMallester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: JorMallester

Hello!

I have read that DP guns protect the whole task force, while AAA guns just protect the ship they are located on...



Not correct.

There is no separate DP combat routine. A DP device operates under the flak routines when used in an surface-air role, and the naval gun routines when used in a surface-surface role.

Alfred


Ah okay understood! It was something I read on a forum post from long ago, I may have even misread it.

As for the two task forces, would it be better to merge them? I understand this would be very circumstantial, but if I wanted a "Cover" force, would the AA values of this cover force still protect the followed TF?

The follow setting of 0 just means the TF is in the same hex - which is 40 NM wide. TFs would likely never travel so close to each other that they could share AA support. Even within the same TF, AA support from other ships depends on gun range, the direction the guns face, the altitude of the enemy aircraft and perhaps weather.

You may have seen something about ships in port getting some support from the base AA, and DP guns would be part of that.

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Post #: 5
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/9/2021 9:45:24 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Dissecting the minute details of AAA is not the path to a solution here.

If you are relying on AAA to protect your ships they are already lost.

CAP and LRCAP are the paths to the solution.

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Post #: 6
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/9/2021 7:11:11 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		At any rate, I think this is what you're driving at...

When a TF is attacked by air there're two AAA 'phases'. At first all the TF's AAA that is in range, defined by altitude, fires at the incoming planes.

Realize that a guns' 'range' is not strictly defined by its 'ceiling', the game allows 'leeway' so that players can't just put their A/C right above the guns' limits. Experienced players will normally place their attackers sufficiently above small AAA.

After this the individual ship under attack will fire its AAA at the attacking planes.

Under no circumstances will another TF in the same hex use its AAA to assist another TF in its hex.


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Post #: 7
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/10/2021 3:20:15 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		A targeted ship only fires those weapons it can bring to bear on the attacking plane. If the attack is from starboard, the port side weapons won't fire.

Alfred

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 8
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/10/2021 6:52:30 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

A targeted ship only fires those weapons it can bring to bear on the attacking plane. If the attack is from starboard, the port side weapons won't fire.

Alfred

Perhaps something I should know but what influences the direction of attack and will TF maneuver when attacked.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 9
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/10/2021 7:50:08 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Under the hood random and no TF maneuver. To have otherwise would be far too tactical and substantially increase both demands on CPU processing and combat resolution time.

The closest you get to a tactical TF maneuvering is in a surface combat when you see the message "xxx is crossing the T." Classical positioning for a broadside allowing both bow and stern turrets to potentially fire. TF leader has some influence on that outcome.

Alfred

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 10
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/11/2021 7:44:59 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Thanks. I never read anything about so thought what you said was the case.

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Post #: 11
RE: Anti-Air Question - 10/11/2021 4:26:42 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I think what you're referring to is the ceiling of AA guns matters. DP guns tend to be larger, but any AA or DP gun with a higher range/ceiling is more likely to provide AREA AA protection. Short-range AA guns only provide POINT protection, or protection for that specific ship (like 25mm guns)

So, those larger AA guns (which are often DP guns) are important for overall flak protection

It's also true as someone noted that flak alone isn't going to protect your ship

This is how I understand it.....

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Post #: 12
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