Surrender China

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Surrender China - 10/10/2021 6:06:54 PM

juntoalmar

Posts: 601
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
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Hi,

In the game I'm playing, the Chinese player is asked if he wants to surrender China to Japan, as per 13.7.6. Why would ever a player want to surrender a country to his oponent? Is just giving a "free" complete contest.

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RE: Surrender China - 10/10/2021 8:15:11 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

First: half US entry effects. It might be important to get an increase in US entry now and not wait for things to happen.

Second: Japan can only take combined actions, until they are at war with another major power. Especially when Japan and the USSR have a neutrality pact, this might become a big problem for them, since it will be pretty difficult to move their units out of China.

Third: if China is down to one factory city, why not make things difficult for the Japanese player by surrendering...

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Peter

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RE: Surrender China - 10/10/2021 8:43:23 PM

craigbear

Posts: 185
Joined: 1/21/2020
From: Calgary, Alberta
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Interesting points Centuur!

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RE: Surrender China - 10/10/2021 8:52:16 PM

juntoalmar

Posts: 601
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
Status: offline

Thanks! I'm not sure if I understood correctly. I'll put my questions next to your points:

First: half US entry effects. It might be important to get an increase in US entry now and not wait for things to happen.
But, if Japan conquers the whole of China, you get all the US entry effects, don't you? Isn't it actually a bad thing for the Allied player to get only half of them?

Second: Japan can only take combined actions, until they are at war with another major power. Especially when Japan and the USSR have a neutrality pact, this might become a big problem for them, since it will be pretty difficult to move their units out of China.

In this particular game Japan is already at war with the CW. But, in any other game, if we don't surrender China, Japan still has to conquer it. When it does, Japan would only take combined as well, just a few turns later. Isn't this point the same, whether you surrend it or not?

Third: if China is down to one factory city, why not make things difficult for the Japanese player by surrendering...
Still don't see the benefit, so it seems to me worse to give that factory city and full contest for free, than leaving it to Japan to conquer.

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying that you are not right, but that I don't understand it.

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RE: Surrender China - 10/10/2021 9:56:15 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Sure, it depends on the overall situation. The fact Japan is at war with someone else besides China is the biggest consideration. When Japan is not, another impact of a surrender is that all their Reserves go to the Reserve Pool and are unavailable to Japan until it goes to war again and will only show up as disorganized reinforcements in Japan. (In the boardgame this also includes all built non-reserve Militia as well, but I don't recall if that is implemented in MWiF.) China gets the same chance for partisans and Japan's garrison will likely be suddenly reduced.

With Japan already at war with the CW, US entry is going up fast and depending on the situation, a boost of half the entry could mean a US DOW one or two turns sooner, but the majority of the other benefits of surrender will not be realized.

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RE: Surrender China - 10/10/2021 10:14:22 PM

Aranthus

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Joined: 4/6/2014
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In addition to all of Centuur's excellent points, if japan is at peace, it loses its reserve units back to the force pool.

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RE: Surrender China - 10/12/2021 2:46:32 AM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

Reserve pool, not force pool. So they show up for free, but disorganized when Japan chooses to do so, once at war with a major power again.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 10/12/2021 2:47:12 AM >

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