Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Jango32

Considering that in the early phases of the air war bombers each flew 4 to 6 sorties a day, dive bombers 7 to 8 and fighters 5 to 8 I think saying that bombers could barely run one each day is a bit of an overstatement. V Fliegerkorps between the 12th and 21st of September (1941) flew 1 422 sorties for example.

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi

Yes, III/JG 1 was already taking off on its second sortie by 9am on the first day. (Black Cross Red Star)

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ORIGINAL: Zovs

There may be still some display issues here, Pavel still has not worked on the air war yet.

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ORIGINAL: metaphore

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi

Yes, III/JG 1 was already taking off on its second sortie by 9am on the first day. (Black Cross Red Star)

What does it tell you about III/JG 1 number of sortie per aircraft on hand?
Nothing, right?

Because those a/c flying this second mission could be the same as those flying the first... or not.

Any unit could fly multiple missions daily, including bomber ones, but it surely doesn't mean the same aircraft would fly all of them.

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi

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ORIGINAL: metaphore

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi

Yes, III/JG 1 was already taking off on its second sortie by 9am on the first day. (Black Cross Red Star)

What does it tell you about III/JG 1 number of sortie per aircraft on hand?
Nothing, right?

Because those a/c flying this second mission could be the same as those flying the first... or not.

Any unit could fly multiple missions daily, including bomber ones, but it surely doesn't mean the same aircraft would fly all of them.

Here is an extract:

Hauptmann Gerhard Baeker, the techni­cal officer of III./KG 1 Hindenburg, told the authors: “At 0211 we took off on our first mission against the East. It was a clear night and the horizon was bright from the midnight sun in the far north. Our target was the airfield Libau in Lithuania. The base was occupied by a fighter unit, and its so-called Ratas stood parked in nice, tight rows, offering us a good target in the bright night.”

The Ju 88s of 1I1./KG 1 unloaded their bombs onto “long rows of completely uncamouflaged aircraft stand­ing in close formation as though on parade along the edges of the Libau (Liepaja) airfield,” as stated by an­other of the participants in that raid, Hauptmann Manfred von Cossart." Hauptmann Baeker adds, “We landed undramatically at 0351, before sunrise.”

1 hour 40 minutes.

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi
Dropping SD-2 fragmentation bombs on the airfields at Dorubanok, near Vilnius, the Bf 109s of 1I./JG 27 destroyed some eighty aircraft on the ground. Hauptmann I Gerhard Baeker of 1II./KG 1 recalls: “The whole Gruppej took off against Libau Airdrome on the second mission, I at 0900. We were met by fighters and antiaircraft fire,! but all aircraft returned without damage.”

5 hours and 9 minutes to refuel and re-arm. Maybe the SD-2 cluster bombs allowed for a quicker turn around time.
These are not modelled in the game based on the loadout descriptions available.

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi

Here is more detailed account but from 1942/43:

our work at Sevastopol made the highest demands on men and material.
Twelve, fourteen and even up to eighteen sorties were made daily by individual
crews. A Ju 88 with fuel tanks full made three or four sorties without the crew
stretching their legs. It meant tremendous wear and tear for the aircraft and
the ground staff, those unknown soldiers who could not sleep a wink in those
days and nights and were responsible for the safe condition of their machines.

Baumbach, Life and Death of the Luftwaffe, p. 124

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ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Do you have a save before the air phase so this can be repeated. I ran the pre-set missions on turn 1 and the most I saw was 4 missions by any pilot. The average number of missions flown by the Ju88 pilots was around 2.5. A save would help. I tested using 1.01.15.

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ORIGINAL: klzlueylx

the sortie displayed here outta be, at least for a full air phase(which stands for 7 days&nights, in a single player side). that means only if you had this Airgroup tasked to a single day of operation; and this group wasnt called to interact onto other directives, you can be sure it's done in a single day.

Just to be clear, a group might operate in his players airphase (7 days and night; fighters & bombers); his players landphase(fighters & bombers); opponents airphase(fighters only); and opponent's landphase(fighters & bombers).
that means even if you read this report right after your airphase executed, you still got a estimated (mission days)x(strike numbers) sorties for each single pilot who performed this task; while unless an group was damaged overwelmingly on the first days, by default directive settings, most pilots would fly every single mission in this directive. (to avoid this, lower your mission percentage to allow some pilots skip missions and rotate the tired ones.)

depending on the mission area you give, and the number of airgroups you appointed, a strike number from 1-20 is automaticlly set by AI; and a default ground attack mission would fly 3-5 days each week. that means if air miles allows, a pilot could even fly 100 sorties a week(by default settings, could be higher if operate manually.). Thus, a 38 sortie pilot is somewhat reasonable, theoritically. I assume it's perform as a 5 days (by default), 7 or 8 strike number(possibly,could be much higher.) directive. and your poor pilot is lucky enough to be unharmed in every missions, unfatigued enough to fly the next, both coincidence made him the anniversary star of duty.


Though; a 38 sortie suggests his missions were all made just around his base airfield. (or the group airmile would run out before tasked strike total is met; make his sorties much less.) Though it's impossible to check the pilots' career, you can still examine battlesites to see which airgroup performed this mission.

hopefully this would answer your question

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ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Ok, I don't know if this can be fixed (at least not easily). We track miles flown for the unit, not for each aircraft. You set up missions requesting 1 a/c to fly. Each time it picks a pilot to fly, and to some extent this is random. Since only 1 A/c is flying, the miles added to the group is small. After you've flow 30 missions with a group, you've done the same as if you'd flown 1 30 a/c mission. The difference is one pilot might have been chosen to fly 10 times, while many others might never fly. I agree the fatigue numbers are low, and I'm not sure why that is, but I recall in development that fatigue numbers never got very high, and that even a low level of fatigue (say 10 or 20) was not good for the pilot. I'm not quite sure what can be done here as I'm not sure what data could be used to keep any one pilot from flying too many missions (at least not data that is tracked now). The fatigue item could be looked into, but it's hard to say what might come from that. I'll put it on our discussion list, but I doubt it will get looked at until the air game gets some series attention.

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Thanks for the save.

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I guess the question is, outside of turn 1, do you get better than average results by flying tons of 1 a/c missions versus more normal missions?

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BTW, the fatigue is probably low on the pilot because he has 6 days off. Of course having an insane amount of missions in 1 day ideally should not happen.

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ORIGINAL: metaphore

Yeah, thank you for quoting Baumbach: should we discuss the average kill ratio of German fighter pilots based on Erich Hartmann's stats?
When Baumbach is refering to up to 18 sorties, he's obviously not talking about twin-engine bomber crew, because in the very same sentence about those "highest demands on men and material", he is quoting a 3-4 missions daily run for a Ju 88 crew, which is actually quite an exploit because, with fuel tanks, they would have flown nearly 20 hrs in one single day :)

Anyway, those Hartmann's kind of exploit aren't the rule, right? So, please, come back with data about high command use of twin bombers and average daily sortie rate. Then, you'll see what I meant.

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ORIGINAL: Hardradi
Your statement "Only single engine fighters and older aircraft could fly more than ONCE per day" is completely wrong in the context of your post. Off the top of my head I new it was wrong with regards to Ju 88s let alone other non-fighter aircraft.

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ORIGINAL: metaphore
Now, if you look at sortie numbers for any major campaign, you'll see that the sortie rate for all those Kampfgueschwader was hardly ever above 1 sortie per day at any point during the whole campaign, including those campaign where those bombers were never rebased outside of Germany (Fall Gelb & Rot 1940).