Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A)

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Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 10/24/2021 8:26:41 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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Hi all,

huda0816 and I are playing the Battle of the Marianas: Hakko Ichiu (one month to end) and we are willing to start the big campaign, I will play as Japanese even if I have no experience how to run the economy (and several other things to be honest

)

Andy Mac's Scenario 7
Turn cycle: 1 day
PDU: ON
Realistic R&D: ON
Historical First Turn: OFF

HRs:
Permanently restricted unit cannot cross national borders
Temporarily restricted unit must pay full PPs
Invasion: don't split a small unit in multiple hexes (fragments)

Turn 1: no new Allied TF creation and no orders to air and ground units outside China
Self imposed rules on turn 1: no Allied CV hunting, no Mersing gambit, one port attack and no very far invasions using the special TF movement bonus. My opponent never asked me anything, therefore I am the only one to blame!

Well, it will be a very long journey and I have no doubt it will be challenging, all my gaming time will be devoted to it but I really want to finish a campaign in what I think is one of the most beautiful piece of wargaming art.
We are playing together since September without any issues, same time zone, no pressure, good chance overall.

From here, secret file for my esteemed opponent!

Attachment (1)

Post #: 1

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 10/24/2021 10:14:20 PM

huda0816

Posts: 75
Joined: 8/7/2021
From: Austria
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I am allowed to make one last (and first) comment in this thread. So I wish my opponent good luck and an autowin in 1943.

As a JFB myself I was shocked that he wanted to play scenario 1 and without any of those tactics I would definitely use (mersing gambit I am looking at you).

I will do an AAR myself but that will start when I get my first turn.

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 2

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 10/28/2021 7:23:13 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
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From: Italy
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So, why to start an AAR so early?
Because I need time to figure out what to do with all the Japanese stuff (Army, Navy, Air, production, logistic and warfare).
There are lot of infos on this forum and the game is complex enough that for a good understanding about a single topic you have to read several posts and AARs, moreover not all of them have the same quality and you have to learn which are useful or not.
I have started reading AARs to have a broad picture but tons of questions arose and eventually I got stuck by too many informations at once syndrome!

Reset, I switched method, I will learn by playing and in the hard way.

Strategy
At very high level I need to delay the Allied advance as long as possible and running my economy without issues.

How to translate these wishful thinkings in a pratical plan?
Oil and fuel are in shortcomings but I can find plenty of them in Sumatra and Borneo, my main objective will be to take Palembang and to create a safe shipping route to Japan (end date 30/12/41, plus another couple of weeks for tanker TF in place.)
The other important oil bases (Balikpapan, Medan, Miri, etc.) will follow the general advance.

Without further modifications I need 11300 HI points every day with the actual production (but I am going to change something), considering a very bad scenario where in 1944 I cannot transport enough oil anymore and my industry start to be bombarded, the following considerations are necessary:

Fuel: hard to have a sound number because ships usage is included, if I am already in this situation I would use my fleet in counterattack only, merchant and naval yards can be stopped if necessary, maybe vehicles and armaments can be reduced (maybe not), surely the air production must be always up, moreover I should be able to produce something for a while with my oil centers if I made a good job in the previous years (Tokyo will be the best air protected base of Japan).
In the first months the fuel will be go down for the naval operations and low production, but when all the convoys will be set I will try to move my fleet for what will be really important or necessary (I don't want to use the KB every day).

Oil: I will move more oil than fuel to Japan because I want the supply point created in the refinery process.
Moreover I will use another self imposed HR, only tankers for oil/fuel transfer (again my opponent told me to use AK as well when I want to), this create a new challenge, my TK/AO are more important than a BB and I don't have so many to spare (more when I will post about ship production).
Again no increment until the DEI will be secured.

Supply: For what I have read, it will be my main problem in the late game therefore I will take care of my stockpile since day one.
I will try to supply my units with the occupy territories productions if possible (plenty of xAK to use) and only few selected sites will be fortified/expanded.

HI: following the previous comment on supply, no crazy industry expansion, I am trading a short term goal for a long term one (hopefully!), I want to increment vehicles and aircraft productions but someone else has to be stopped or new territories occupied, anyhow I think a small increment in factories will be necessary.

I still don't have figure out exactly the final output but my logic is to increase both supply and HI every turn.

Resources: the only problem will be to haul them to Japan but fortunately I have all the xAK needed for the task.

Warfare: aside the mandatory territories to occupy, the next steps will be influenced by Allied strategy (of course), quality and quantity cannot be matched therefore I need to pick up my battles very carefully, if I can destroy Allied assets and postpone the inevitable advanced without losing my fighting naval force I will be doing good, in all other situations there are good chance that I am wasting resources.
So far we have played two small scenarios (one still on the way) and it wasn't possible to do trick moves, samll map, fixed units, clear objectives. It will be another thing to take in account during the game.

Looking from his side, I would not play a general retreat but I would commit my units to delay the Japanese advances, I think almost everything is expendable for the Allied and even a 1:2 ratio is still pretty good (especially for aircrafts).
Also he knows that I will use my TK/AO ships only, therefore they will be a gold target for his subs.

Long story short, I still don't know where to go in the second phase, a wild guess is the Pacific sector but his strategy and my overall success (or failure) could be change that.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 10/28/2021 7:27:38 PM >

(in reply to huda0816)

Post #: 3

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/6/2021 12:54:53 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

Theatre of Operation part One

China
I like this sector, plenty of space for manoeuvring and tons of units to use.
Supply will be the main concern therefore I will try to grab all light/heavy industries as possible in the lower half of China.

After that will start the phase two, Sian and Langchow (NE), Kweiyang and Kunming (NW), of course a lot it will depend on his defence strategy and how good I will be chasing the Chinese units.

Mongol Garrison Army
Kweisui and Paotow can be taken therefore I will retreat if I will notice offensive movements by him, the 26th Div will help to clear out the area when available.
I am toying with the idea to threat Langchow using the road in the Gobi desert but I still have to understand if the supply network can handle this kind of manoeuvre, the cavalry brigades will act as scout units in this regard.

North China Area Army
Main task is to clear out the railroad hexes till Anyi and to take Yenan, a couple of divisions equivalent for this task should suffice, otherwise they will wait reinforcements when availabe.

1st Army
It will play an important role in the East, Loyang and Chengcha are the initial targets, about five divisions are allocated for the job. Unfortunately there are few JAAF units and even less level 2+ airfields to use for the offensive operations, I think I will improve the Loyang one when taken and I will buy out some BF and air groups from Manchukuo.

12th Army
The smaller one and with a big unit only, the 32nd Div will attack Kewiteh when free from garrison duty and will chase enemy units in the great valleys if still present.

11th Army
The biggest Army with six divisions tasked to take the four cities around the Zi River, Changsha will be the first target.
There are a lot of Chinese Corps around this area therefore I have to pay attention to keep my supply line open, Ichang and Sinyang are too exposed and can be encircle pretty easy, a general retreat towards more defensible positions will be issued to these units, moreover the RGC divisions are more useful to free up other important units from garrison duty.

13th Army
About three divisions when released and the main task is to capture Wenchow and to clear out the area in the South from Chinese units.
The rest of the Army has big garrison requirements to fulfil.

23rd Army
A defensive role at the beginning, when garrison units will releave elements of the 51st Division in the coastal cities and no Chinese offensive are underway, Wuchow will be the first target.
Again I don't want to send a division in the middle of Chinese units that can cut my supply lines.

According to this plan a big area in the middle of the China won't be under Japanese attention for the moment, a no man's land where the enemy units will be left unmolested, essentially the vast majority of clear hexes without bases worth to be taken now.
The cons are he can move his units for a concentrated attack, even if I think it would be a mistake without proper AT guns in clear terrain, or he can move away several units in better positions. Anyhow I don't think I will able to catch lot of them anyway.

Feel free to comment or give advices, I am the rookie player here!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/6/2021 12:56:54 PM >

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 4

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/6/2021 1:07:35 PM

RangerJoe

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Sinyang can and should be held. It is in wooded terrain, the Chinese won't have a lot of supplies to attack with and if they use them that way, they will not repair devices with them. It is on the rail line to the north which you should be working on to clear the enemy out of those clear hex bases which produce supplies. Build up the forts and then the airfield if needed to operate fighters and light bombers for short distance airstrikes against enemy units in clear terrain.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 5

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/7/2021 4:24:02 PM

OnWargaming

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From: Italy
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Thanks for your comment and welcome!

I agree that Sinyang is useful, I have some unit prepped for it for later, but why do you think it is important to hold right now?

Until Chengcha is in Japanese hands it is a dead end, moreover the Allied player can divide a small corps to place along the railroad hexes (if he really wants to interrupt the rail connection).
At the moment there is only an infantry brigade with average experience, I need to reinforce the base with another brigade at least if I want to hold and I need to keep open the other hex connecting with Hankow.
According to my plan these brigades are necessary in other places and the RGC divisions are needed to free up the 21st Division at Shanghai.

Anyhow I see your point, wooded area with fort level 4, not so easy for the Chinese to take it. No need to invest resources later.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 6

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/7/2021 4:40:27 PM

Uncivil Engineer

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From: Florida, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Sinyang can and should be held. It is in wooded terrain, the Chinese won't have a lot of supplies to attack with and if they use them that way, they will not repair devices with them. It is on the rail line to the north which you should be working on to clear the enemy out of those clear hex bases which produce supplies. Build up the forts and then the airfield if needed to operate fighters and light bombers for short distance airstrikes against enemy units in clear terrain.

I definitely agree with holding Sinyang AND clearing the rail line from Chengchow to Hankow. You will need that line to feed reinforcements and SUPPLY into your Changsha offensive. Without that rail line it will be slow and tough going.

The minor road through the desert to Lanchow won't really support an offensive up there. It will barely support one division. You can fly supply into Ningsia, but that won't be enough. He's not likely to use the road to flank you, for the same reason.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 7

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/7/2021 4:44:37 PM

mind_messing

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Regarding your industrial plans:

- HI is very rarely (if ever?) a bottleneck for the IJ. Supply is by far the critical point of failure for the IJ economy. There are plenty of examples of IJ players running out of supply in 1945, yet to see or hear of one running out of heavy industry points.

- Vehicles and Armaments points bear watching closely. It is often deceptive to many players, who see building and maintaining a large stockpile of both of these for most of the war as a over the top. However, worth keeping in mind the massive shift in gears come 1944 onwards, where losses combined with increased mobilisation and formation of new units sends the use of VEH and ARM points sky-high.

- Thinking longer term about your industry, worth keeping in mind that the pools can't be bombed. Banked merchant/naval shipyard points, aircraft engines and airframes exist is perfect safety from any Allied attacks. Worth factoring this in to any longer term production plans.

- Shipyard (both merchant and naval) production is worth reviewing. There are some real gems hidden in the build list, and some that are an absolute waste of time and effort.

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 8

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/8/2021 9:43:31 PM

RangerJoe

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From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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As far as Sinyang goes,why give up the base if you do not have to? It is not in clear terrain with massive forces nearby, unlike Ichang. If the enemy moves in, you can surround him. If he attacks you in a wooded base hex with forts while his ground forces are being . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 9

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 2:12:09 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer

I definitely agree with holding Sinyang AND clearing the rail line from Chengchow to Hankow. You will need that line to feed reinforcements and SUPPLY into your Changsha offensive. Without that rail line it will be slow and tough going.

The minor road through the desert to Lanchow won't really support an offensive up there. It will barely support one division. You can fly supply into Ningsia, but that won't be enough. He's not likely to use the road to flank you, for the same reason.

Thanks and welcome!

Sinyang: do you think that until the railroad will be cleared (and Chengcha taken) is not possible to attack Changsha for luck of supply?

Lanchow: there is only a division and I am thinking to take this city by "a coup de main" if not held with enough forces.
Anyhow I understand that it is not a feasible approach for a serious offensive.

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)

Post #: 10

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 2:28:26 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Regarding your industrial plans:

- HI is very rarely (if ever?) a bottleneck for the IJ. Supply is by far the critical point of failure for the IJ economy. There are plenty of examples of IJ players running out of supply in 1945, yet to see or hear of one running out of heavy industry points.

- Vehicles and Armaments points bear watching closely. It is often deceptive to many players, who see building and maintaining a large stockpile of both of these for most of the war as a over the top. However, worth keeping in mind the massive shift in gears come 1944 onwards, where losses combined with increased mobilisation and formation of new units sends the use of VEH and ARM points sky-high.

- Thinking longer term about your industry, worth keeping in mind that the pools can't be bombed. Banked merchant/naval shipyard points, aircraft engines and airframes exist is perfect safety from any Allied attacks. Worth factoring this in to any longer term production plans.

- Shipyard (both merchant and naval) production is worth reviewing. There are some real gems hidden in the build list, and some that are an absolute waste of time and effort.

Lot of comments, thanks!

Supply first, got it!

Vehicles and Armaments: ok, therefore I can think to increase the production later in the game (1943?) and no need to keep a large stockpile from the beginning.

Long term planning: right, this is my main concern for luck of experience, I just have a vague idea where to spend my limited resources.
My olistic approach will be small increments checking my overall losses and resources stockpile.

Naval/Merchant Shipyard points: my idea here was to keep them constantly close to the limits accelerating the most needed ships (of course several ones will be halted) and eventually to build what is possible until the Allied lockdown.
I am not sure building a stockpile here, of course I can be wrong

Edit: added a clarification on shipyards

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/13/2021 7:24:28 AM >

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 11

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 2:30:38 PM

OnWargaming

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From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

As far as Sinyang goes,why give up the base if you do not have to? It is not in clear terrain with massive forces nearby, unlike Ichang. If the enemy moves in, you can surround him. If he attacks you in a wooded base hex with forts while his ground forces are being . . .

Ok, I will check my garrsion plan and I will try to keep this base if not under heavy pressure, thanks!

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/12/2021 2:32:13 PM >

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 12

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 2:35:18 PM

RangerJoe

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Check when you get your Japanese armoured divisions, you will need vehicle and armament points for them. See when other units come in as well, they might also need devices costing vehicle and armament points. Check when your units upgrade, you will also need points for those as well as for device upgrades.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 13

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 5:44:07 PM

OnWargaming

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According to my understading so far, am I right saying that I don't have to pay the whole device cost of the units but just part of it?
I don't know how big is this part though.

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 14

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 6:16:11 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

According to my understading so far, am I right saying that I don't have to pay the whole device cost of the units but just part of it?
I don't know how big is this part though.

On upgrades, my understanding is you get a credit for the returned device and a debit of points for the new device - so yes you only pay the difference between the two.

New devices come with a full price tag - until you take them off the lot!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 15

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 7:19:25 PM

OnWargaming

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Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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Theatre of Operation Part Two

Burma
Another very important sector for cutting the supply bonus to the Chinese units, increasing the oil production with Magwe and using it as stepping stone for a further expansion to the India HI factories in the South.
I am torn about a South Pacific expansion (but I am finding more cons than pros, more later about it) and the Indian one.

Pros
With Malaya, Burma and DEI in Japanese hands I think to have enough supply and fuel to keep the offensive without using HI resources.
Another plus is the short travel time to feed my troops.
There are dozens of HI factories that can boost my production and my opponent will have to divert reinforcements in this sector.
Plenty of terrain suitable for my tank units.

Cons
Lot of ground to cover therefore I need to employ a very large part of my Army force and if the operations will go wrong can be a massive defeat.
More easy for him to bring reinforcements and supply in the sector.
If I cross Delhi (I guess) several Allied divisions will join the party for free.
If he will choice a general retreat as main strategy, this sector can be already reinforced by initial British/Indian divisions.
Easy for him building fortifications from day two.

Well, back to Burma for the moment.

15th Army
Two good divisions will start the offensive at very slow pace but they will be supported by 25th Army after Singapore will fall.
A long way before to see real action here.
Anyhow the first objectives will be Rangoon, Port Blair and Lashio.

3rd Air Division
A fighter Sentai (after Oscar upgrade) and short range bombers will assist the advance.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/12/2021 7:32:54 PM >

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 16

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 7:33:52 PM

RangerJoe

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If you go the Indian route and want to conquer the entire place, before crossing the "emergency reinforcement" line in India, have your invasion for Karachi and try to do that either first or at the same time that you cross the line.

You might want to read this thread:

Emergency Reinforcements--India/Socotra

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2616532

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 17

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 7:39:30 PM

OnWargaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

On upgrades, my understanding is you get a credit for the returned device and a debit of points for the new device - so yes you only pay the difference between the two.

New devices come with a full price tag - until you take them off the lot!

Thanks for joining the AAR.

And what about when new units will arrive as reinforcement? The full price as well?

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 18

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 7:47:40 PM

821Bobo

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quote:

And what about when new units will arrive as reinforcement? The full price as well?

Yes, they come as shells and all the devices are created from the stockpile of manpower, armaments and vehicles.

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 19

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 8:41:37 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
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From: Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you go the Indian route and want to conquer the entire place, before crossing the "emergency reinforcement" line in India, have your invasion for Karachi and try to do that either first or at the same time that you cross the line.

You might want to read this thread:

Emergency Reinforcements--India/Socotra

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2616532

Interesting thread, thanks.

We can summarize in "go big or go home"

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 20

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/12/2021 8:42:21 PM

OnWargaming

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

And what about when new units will arrive as reinforcement? The full price as well?

Yes, they come as shells and all the devices are created from the stockpile of manpower, armaments and vehicles.

Thanks and welcome!

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 21

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/13/2021 12:00:37 AM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OnWargaming

Vehicles and Armaments: ok, therefore I can think to increase the production later in the game (1943?) and no need to keep a large stockpile from the beginning.

That is a mistake. Expanding production for later in the game, when the Home Islands are likely to be exposed to Allied strategic bombing, is an invitation to waste supply.

Not to mention you will be looking to expand industry at a point where supply pressure is starting to become acute for Japan, as well as the time delay between expansion and factories repairing.

Bank ARM and VEH points while Japan is in the ascendancy.

quote:

Long term planning: right, this is my main concern for luck of experience, I just have a vague idea where to spend my limited resources.
My olistic approach will be small increments checking my overall losses and resources stockpile.

In my view, with a PDU ON game, it pays to adopt a Soviet-style approach where airframes (particularly late-war models) are concerned. A "just-in-time" approach to airframe production will be attractive in the early stages of the war when combat is quite restricted in scale, but the wheels will come off in short order once combat ramps up into 1943.

Pick a handful of models that fill key roles and streamline production around those aircraft. There are plenty of suggested approaches on the forum for how to go about this.

This approach gives you the advantage of leveraging the IJ's greatest asset (variable airframe production) - provided of course that you have the pilot training programme to match it.

quote:

Shipyard: my idea here was to keep them constantly close to the limits accelerating the most needed ships (of course several ones will be halted) and eventually to build what is possible until the Allied lockdown.
I am not sure building a stockpile here, of course I can be wrong

Worth referring to the manual on how the shipyards work.

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 22

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/13/2021 12:07:45 AM

mind_messing

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quote:

Pros
With Malaya, Burma and DEI in Japanese hands I think to have enough supply and fuel to keep the offensive without using HI resources.

That is unlikely to be the case. Troops in combat operations, plus air operations, plus expansion to port and airbases needed to sustain the advance will see substantial supply usage.

You may be lucky and capture a significant stockpile at Calcutta or Madras, but the likelihood of being able to sustain the offensive on captured stockpiles is slim.

quote:

Another plus is the short travel time to feed my troops.

This is not the case.

With the Home Islands to Singapore route taking approx. two weeks, you can add a extra week on for the Singapore to Calcutta route.

All in all, that will mean you are looking at a month (and likely more) of travel time for a convoy bringing troops or supplies to India. Staging from Singapore and effective convoy organisation will help with this, but only to a limited degree - geography is geography.

(in reply to OnWargaming)

Post #: 23

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/13/2021 8:18:55 AM

OnWargaming

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@mind_messing thanks for your comments!

Vehicles and Armaments: got the point.

Airframes: I still have to decide what to build, this is my last thing to do before to start the turn one.

Shipyards: sorry I meant the Naval and Merchant ones.

India: therefore my initial assumptions about the supply needs are wrong.
I will check how much supply are needed for a large army with the Malaya invasion and Tracker.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 24

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/13/2021 9:24:47 AM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
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Theatre of Operation Part Three

Malaya
Well, no doubt that Singapore is the most important city to take and I need lot of units for this task.
I added another HR for myself, no invasion fleet if not under fighters cover (no drop tanks) or CV/CVL escort, therefore no Mersing gambit in day one, two, and so on, only when it can be covered.
I will land at Patani and Kota Bharu, then Kuantan.

25th Army
Five divisions and three tank regiments, lot of guys for the final assault.
I will try to cut the general retreat towards Singapore but I aspect that several Allied units will be able to escape.

16th Army
2nd Division will help on this invasion, Mersing is the target.
Still not sure what to do with the 38th Division after Hong Kong will fall, Philippines are my first choice at the moment.

3rd Air Division
Medium range bombers and the rest of the fighters will support the advance.

DEI
I want Palembang, badly, I hope to have the necessary air cover in time to take it at the end of the year.
To support the plan I will take Singkawang first.
Next targets Batavia and Soerabaja, Koepang the last one.

Southern Army
4th Division for Palembang with my faster transport ships, maybe can be overkill but if my opponent wants to stand and fight here I prefer to have a good unit for the job.
21th Division for Soerabaja, my plan is to release this unit from garrison duty in short time.
124th Regiment will take Miri and Singkawang.
21st Ind. Mixed Brigade will take Koepang (when released).

Borneo
Miri as first target, all the other bases will follow step by step.
Tarakan and Balikpapan will be hit after Miri and Davao will be in Japanese hands and air cover will be available.

22nd Air Flotilla
Few Zero but lot of naval bombers, the small detachments will help on naval search.
Initially based on Borneo bases. I don't want to use the bombers for ground attacks.

SNLF Units
Very useful units for all the light defended bases, they will see lot of action.
Manado, Tarakan, Balikpapan and Kendari are their main targets.

Southern Fleet
All the initial naval force wil stay in the theatre:
2x BB
7x CA
2x CL
2x CVL will join the operations as soon as possible.
Of course this could be change according to my opponent's strategy.

Edit: a mistake in the picture, sorry. Singapore is a priority target but obviously not a first one!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/13/2021 9:37:33 AM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/15/2021 11:02:17 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

Theatre of Operation Part Four

Philippines
Not a priority except the 3+ level airfields (the main target is USAAF) and Manila.
I will land few units at the beginning because I just want to keep my sea lanes safe until more reinforcements will arrive.
I thought to bypass Luzon but then the Allied could bring more supply and build several fortifications before my invasion, my fear is that the time spent to take the bases could be a lot more.

14th Army
Two divisions, one brigade and two tank regiments for taking Clark Field and Manila.
A pincer maneuver from Vigan and Legaspi.

16th Army
146th Regiment will attack Davao.

5th Air Division
Not the strongest air force but after some upgrade should be able to support the advance till a potential Darwin air offensive.

21st Air Flotilla
Very few Zero but several naval bombers, this time I will use them on ground targets.

23rd Air Flotilla
Lot of Zero and a good amount of naval bombers.
Both HQ will work togheter to destroy the enemy aircrafts on Clark Field.

SNLF Units
The small paratrooper units will land at Legaspi and Vigan, they can be very useful later for the small bases spread out across the Pacific.

Combined Fleet
Initial naval force:
2x CA
4x CL
I could be rather light for naval combat, thinking to move 2-3 more CL from the Home Islands, especially Kitakami with her wonderful amount of torpedoes.

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RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/17/2021 7:02:03 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

Theatre of Operation Part Five

South Pacific
Guam invasion TF will be diverted to Rabaul and a Naval Guard unit will take Guam instead.
TF starting in the Marshall Islands will join together for a concentrated attack at Wake.
Then Kavieng, Lae, Shortlands, Tulagi, Tarawa.

After that I am thinking to take Port Moresby and Baker Island, followed by Midway, Johnston, Canton and Palmyra islands.
The idea here is to force a CV engagement and deny to him valuable patrol bases.

Phase Two Expansion on the Pacific
Pros
Less costly in supply than the India offensive, less land troops involved
Allied force cannot contest the KB at the beginning and I should be able to land almost everywhere unopposed
Japanese aircrafts have a pretty good long range (fighters, bombers, patrols, transports)
Maybe is the only theatre where I can force an early CV clash (my plan is not to split the KB)
Hawaii and South Australia are the only places heavily defended

Cons
Extended supply lines
More costly in fuel than the India offensive, everything need a ship to be moved
A very big area to cover, enemy TF can sail undetected
Understanding the correct defensive line, if a base is too fortified can be bypassed, if too low can be taken at the first try
Few asset available until SRA is secured or bought out

Again I will see how my opponent strategy unfold before to take a final decision.

Southeast Area Fleet
Few Naval Guard and SNLF units, they will fight alone for a while.

Initial naval force:
KB
4 CA
3 CL
Lot of SS
If concentrated should be enough until more asset will arrive.

24th Air Flotilla
Lot of FP and Patrol aircrafts but few outdated fighters, reinforcements are needed.

North Pacific
Given my self imposed HR (no invasion fleet if not under fighters cover or CV/CVL escort) I have to wait a bit before launching an offensive here, anyhow Adak will be the main target.

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RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/18/2021 9:15:25 PM

OnWargaming

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/13/2021
From: Italy
Status: offline

Moving stuff!

Oil&Fuel
Only tankers for moving oil and fuel therefore I need to use them wisely and safety:

TK Type-NTL: DEI
TK Thonan Whaler: DEI
I want to move oil into HI to keep my refineries busy, old DD in escort.

TK Manzyu TM: DEI
AO Shiretoko: Malaya
Fuel to Japan

AO Type-1 TL: replenishment
TK Typ-1 TS: short haul

Resources&Supply
xAK Aden and xAK Gozan will haul resources from Korea, China and Hokkaido to HI (160), when few selected ports will be expanded less ships will be necessary.

AK Yusen S: DEI/Malaya
xAK Kyushu: DEI/Malaya, some of them will be converted in AV
xAK Yusen A: conversion in AK, invasions
xAK Yusen N: invasions, supply
xAK Lima: some in AKE, supply
xAK Husimi: some in AS, AV and AR, supply
xAK Akasi: some in AD, second line
xAK Toho: some in AKE, rear bases
xAK Ehime: rear bases
xAK Std-C: TK
xAK Ansyu-C: PB
xAKL Kasu-D: small or rear bases
xAKL Kiso-E: PB
xAKL Miyati: some in AGP/AG
xAKL To'su: ACM, AMc or CMc

Shipyards

Merchant
TK: every ship will be built until 43, the big 44 one will be accelerated, in general if I have a surplus of Merchant points I want to spend them on accelerating some TK (with few exceptions).
AO: all, trying to accelerate the 44 ones
CVE: all till 43
CS Nisshin
xAP: all
xAK: only Std-A and B for a while (for TK conversion)
Losses could be change that but at the moment no more xAK/xAKL
Aux: all
LSD: both, trying to to accelerate the 2nd one

Naval
Everything with a deck is a priority, all CV (no 45 ones) and trying to accelerate Taiho and Shinano
CVL: Shoho and Ryuho
BB: the two big sister will be halted, too expensive, difficult to rearm, I am not sure they are worth the investiment
CL: all
DD: accelerating if possible
APD: none
SS
I-XX: all but I-52/53/55
RO-100/117: no
RO-35/56: yes (speed 20 knots, maneuver 72)
Ha-xx and Yu-xx: no
Patrol: all

Conversions
Following the same approach, I want to convert almost everything with a decent aircrafts capacity.
BB are expensive to move and rearm and I don't think they will see a lot of naval engagements except the early period, great for naval bombardment though. Anyhow I want more CV than BB.
Fuso and Ise class will convert in FP platform (22 A/C), pretty good inside a CV TF and lot of AA armament, 2 at least, all 4 if my losses on BB are not heavy.
CA Mogami too, excellent inside the KB TF
CS Chitose class, both in CVL (I need to expand Tokyo SY to 50)

Political Points
First priority are leaders on important ships, from CV down to CL.
CV air groups
Ground big units in offensive operations
Buy out high Exp troops from Korea/Manchukuo

At the moment I am thinking about my aircrafts production...I need a break!

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RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/18/2021 9:31:51 PM

OnWargaming

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From: Italy
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Double post!

< Message edited by OnWargaming -- 11/18/2021 9:32:44 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Under the Seas - Ale (J) vs Daniel (A) - 11/18/2021 11:30:02 PM

mind_messing

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Joined: 10/28/2013
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quote:

I want Palembang, badly, I hope to have the necessary air cover in time to take it at the end of the year.

Be sure to understand the implications of this in a game with no strategic bombing HR.

As the Allies, in such a game, you can be sure that the first move following the capture of Palembang would be to mobilize every bomber within range to bomb the oil from under Japan's nose.

While a capture of Palembang before Jan '42 will put the Allies on the back foot in this regard, that cuts both ways as it's unlikely Japan will have substantial assets to commit to the defence...

Plan wisely!

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Post #: 30

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