Logistics Log - Rail Points

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Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/6/2021 10:34:50 PM

DeletedUser44

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline

You guys are making some noticeable improvements to the logging, which is the step in the right direction to help players understand what is going on as well as assisting to detect anomalies.

However, what would be helpful in terms of user turn planning is a little more disclosure of how "Rail Points" are being used.

In the logistics log, there are only 2 lines logging "Rail Points". Examples provided below:

* Rail points BEFORE moving resources: 60,220,716
* Rail points AFTER moving resources: 53,187,408

Some of the things I would like to know is:

* how many "Rail Points" did I have to begin with, at beginning of the turn?
* how many "Rail Points" remained at end of turn?
* doesn't freight movement also consume "Rail Points"? How about BEFORE/AFTER moving freight?

---

If I am running out of "Rail Points", I would like to know as it would change the way I prioritize avenues of advance and other strategic targets.

As the Soviets, who also have to factor in factory movement, I would think this information is even more critical.

---

And while on the Logistics Log, what is the significance of the trailing "*****", "!!!!!" annotations, as shown below?

quote:

Sighet ships 2083 freight to Constanta *****
Danzig ships 5274 freight to Koenigsberg !!!!!
Koenigsberg ships 6667 freight to Riga !!!!!
Koenigsberg ships 6667 freight to Memel !!!!!
Koenigsberg ships 6667 freight to Liepaja !!!!!
Berlin ships 2598 freight to Suwalki
Botosani ships 3897 freight to Iasi *****
Rzeszow ships 926 freight to Galati *****
Sibiu ships 956 freight to Tulcea *****
Sighet ships 2326 freight to Dorohoi *****
Berlin ships 2878 freight to Chelm

-----------------------

EDIT

Honestly, I am not even sure what "Rail Points" currently are. There are only 2 references to them in the manual, both point to the Logistics log, without any definition or explanation.

I had thought WiTE2 still used "Rail Points" to abstract trains available, while using "Rail Capacity" to abstract local railroad track availability.

But I must have dreamed this as I cannot find any reference to it. (I think I must have just been filling in the blanks for what has never been fully explained or documented...)

So, what the hell are "Rail Points"? How do they related to "Rail Capacity"?

In quick search of the forums, I asked nearly same question regarding "Rail Points" FIVE months ago, and it went unanswered!

Does anybody know?

< Message edited by Sauron_II -- 11/6/2021 11:54:01 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/6/2021 11:31:31 PM

gw15

Posts: 919
Joined: 3/21/2010
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I often wondered that myself about the *****!!!!!

(in reply to DeletedUser44)

Post #: 2

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 12:03:11 AM

thedoctorking

Posts: 2297
Joined: 4/29/2017
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If I understand correctly, factory movement is not using rail points, because the factories are going in the other direction. Same reason transferring units to strategic reserve or other theater boxes doesn't. Rail points are about moving units, supplies, and replacements up to the front.

(in reply to gw15)

Post #: 3

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 12:44:44 AM

DeletedUser44

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
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Based on review the manual, it does not reference "Rail Points", but only "Rail Capacity".

In this regard you are correct.

But on the other hand, nothing references "Rail Points" other than a brief blurp on the Logistics Log.

So, they still remain undefined and their exact use somewhat nebulous.

Who knows how they are being used at this point?

< Message edited by Sauron_II -- 11/7/2021 12:45:43 AM >

(in reply to thedoctorking)

Post #: 4

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 7:42:54 AM

xmax

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/20/2021
Status: offline

I haven't played WITE1, but it looks like WITE2 has a lot of legacy code from it, like Ctrl+0 to highlight partisan units, that are not present on the map. I guess railroad points serve no aim as they are present in abundance and may only indicate how many freight has been transported.

And I also would like to know what trailing * and ! mean. I tried to figure it out but have no clue about it.

(in reply to DeletedUser44)

Post #: 5

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 8:31:19 AM

Hardradi

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Joined: 2/9/2011
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The answer is there if you take the time to look at and analyse the data. Yes, it would be a helpful if this was documented.

***** - port to port freight
!!!!! - non-NSS depot to depot freight (as I understand)
nothing - NSS to non-NSS depot freight (as I understand)

Also the manual states that "Factories being relocated take up rail capacity during the logistics phase." I am not sure if this is railyard(level 2+(rolling stock capacity)) and/or rail useage.

(in reply to xmax)

Post #: 6

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 8:27:37 AM

DeletedUser44

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

The answer is there if you take the time to look at and analyse the data. Yes, it would be a helpful if this was documented.

***** - port to port freight
!!!!! - non-NSS depot to depot freight (as I understand)
nothing - NSS to non-NSS depot freight (as I understand)

Also the manual states that "Factories being relocated take up rail capacity during the logistics phase." I am not sure if this is railyard(level 2+(rolling stock capacity)) and/or rail useage.

I see the pattern. You could be correct.

So what are "Rail Points" and how are they generated?

(in reply to Hardradi)

Post #: 7

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 9:21:53 AM

xmax

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/20/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

The answer is there if you take the time to look at and analyse the data. Yes, it would be a helpful if this was documented.

***** - port to port freight
!!!!! - non-NSS depot to depot freight (as I understand)
nothing - NSS to non-NSS depot freight (as I understand)

Also the manual states that "Factories being relocated take up rail capacity during the logistics phase." I am not sure if this is railyard(level 2+(rolling stock capacity)) and/or rail useage.

I don't think you are correct. First, !!!!! are more likely to be port-to-port deliveries then *****. Second, There are contradicting examples that ***** or !!!!! are anyhow tied to NSS-to-depot deliveries.

(in reply to Hardradi)

Post #: 8

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 10:15:12 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

The answer is there if you take the time to look at and analyse the data. Yes, it would be a helpful if this was documented.

***** - port to port freight
!!!!! - non-NSS depot to depot freight (as I understand)
nothing - NSS to non-NSS depot freight (as I understand)

Also the manual states that "Factories being relocated take up rail capacity during the logistics phase." I am not sure if this is railyard(level 2+(rolling stock capacity)) and/or rail useage.

I see the pattern. You could be correct.

So what are "Rail Points" and how are they generated?

the capacity to move units, ie from #2 or bigger railyards within 30 hexes of the entraining

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

If I understand correctly, factory movement is not using rail points, because the factories are going in the other direction. Same reason transferring units to strategic reserve or other theater boxes doesn't. Rail points are about moving units, supplies, and replacements up to the front.

Not right. Factories claim rail movement capacity (ie as in the answer above) and then generate usage as they move. This applies to any move, so if you transfer a unit from say around Pskov to Stalino it takes up railyard capacity, if you have Minsk set as an intermediate depot and then send the freight forward it takes up railyard capacity, if you empty a front line depot as you fall back it takes up railyard capacity.

to/from the reserve doesn't as technically its not treated as a rail move, just you need to interact with the rail net to exit the map

_____________________________

(in reply to DeletedUser44)

Post #: 9

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/7/2021 8:16:50 PM

Hardradi

Posts: 571
Joined: 2/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xmax

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hardradi

The answer is there if you take the time to look at and analyse the data. Yes, it would be a helpful if this was documented.

Also the manual states that "Factories being relocated take up rail capacity during the logistics phase." I am not sure if this is railyard(level 2+(rolling stock capacity)) and/or rail useage.

I don't think you are correct. First, !!!!! are more likely to be port-to-port deliveries then *****. Second, There are contradicting examples that ***** or !!!!! are anyhow tied to NSS-to-depot deliveries.

Yes, your are right, I got the first two the wrong way around (big weekend

).
!!!!! - port to port freight
***** - non-NSS depot to depot freight (as I understand)
nothing - NSS to non-NSS depot freight (as I understand)

(in reply to xmax)

Post #: 10

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/8/2021 2:12:32 AM

metaphore

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

---

And while on the Logistics Log, what is the significance of the trailing "*****", "!!!!!" annotations, as shown below?

quote:

Sighet ships 2083 freight to Constanta *****
Danzig ships 5274 freight to Koenigsberg !!!!!
Koenigsberg ships 6667 freight to Riga !!!!!
Koenigsberg ships 6667 freight to Memel !!!!!
Koenigsberg ships 6667 freight to Liepaja !!!!!
Berlin ships 2598 freight to Suwalki
Botosani ships 3897 freight to Iasi *****
Rzeszow ships 926 freight to Galati *****
Sibiu ships 956 freight to Tulcea *****
Sighet ships 2326 freight to Dorohoi *****
Berlin ships 2878 freight to Chelm

-----------------------

Something related to Geography and freight destination?
- Koenigsberg, Riga, Memel and Liepaja are ports located in the "Baltic" area
- Constanta, Iasi, Galati, Tulcea, Dorohoi are places located in "Rumania" area
- "Others" are connexions intra "Germany-Poland" area

(in reply to DeletedUser44)

Post #: 11

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/8/2021 3:14:53 AM

metaphore

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline

Sometime I just wish that I could move all my supply manually directly to the frontline units -using a well defined set of rules- rather than trying to figure out and influence how the AI is generating such priorities and dispatch.

Example: I want some fuel to reach my motorized spearheads and I certainly don't want that my logistic network will deprive those same units from their trucks during the process... because, guess what, it's for moving them forward!

In order to resolve such kind of problem with the actual system, I will certainly have to spend, each turn, many times (and then, at least twice more on top of it) the ammount of time it would have taken for me to do everything manually (like resuplying the whole Army). Moreover, I will never be certain that the engine is going to do it right or that's even working properly.

Naming it the "Dark Art" of logistic is a cover up for the fact that we are not going to verify if we really had 53,187,408 Rail points left out of those 60,220,716 we had before moving resources... and how many millions more it would take to be able to move up that couple of fuel cans which are so badly needed near Vyazma.

< Message edited by metaphore -- 11/8/2021 3:27:21 AM >

(in reply to metaphore)

Post #: 12

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/8/2021 9:28:35 PM

DeletedUser44

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline

Can a dev or moderator answer or give some background on "Rail Points" and how they are being used in WiTE2?

Even of they are an artifact of WiTE and can be ignored, that would be nice to know too.

(in reply to metaphore)

Post #: 13

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/8/2021 9:42:26 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

Can a dev or moderator answer or give some background on "Rail Points" and how they are being used in WiTE2?

Even of they are an artifact of WiTE and can be ignored, that would be nice to know too.

see my answer above, read the section in the player's notes in the manual.

yes, they are totally different to #1. There you got a universal block that could be used anywhere, here you draw them from railyards as needed

_____________________________

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Post #: 14

RE: Logistics Log - Rail Points - 11/8/2021 9:48:02 PM

Karri

Posts: 1137
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

Can a dev or moderator answer or give some background on "Rail Points" and how they are being used in WiTE2?

Even of they are an artifact of WiTE and can be ignored, that would be nice to know too.

Rail points, as far as I know, are the same as rail capacity. These are generated by all railyard past level 2. At least the number goes up if you change the railyard in generic data.

(in reply to DeletedUser44)

Post #: 15