Doubt about victory in a scenario

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Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 11:12:51 AM

voroshilov17

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Hello everyone!

I have played the Arracourt 44 scenario as a GERMAN player, and the scenario has ended like this as you can see in the image:

Objectives controlled by the enemy: 40. Penalties for combat losses:0
Objectives controlled by own forces:70 Penalties for combat losses:31
Net point victory award:0
Our victory level is -1 od 110. It is a draw.

I have searched information about this in the manual and barely says nothing. So here I have a bunch of doubts and questions:

1�-How are the penalties for combat losses calculated? Where does this number come from? How is it made of? Each unit you loose is 1 point or how does it work?

2�-How does that number affect the victory level? Is a 70-31 arithmetic operation or what?

3�-How can my level of victory be -1 of 110? How is this number calculated?

4�-In the manual it says something about Victory Point awards. How are does acquired?

5�-What does net victory award mean, where does it come form and how is it calculated? I guess that is the summation of all victory points that I have mentioned above.

Thanks a lot!

Post #: 1

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 11:26:54 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

1�-How are the penalties for combat losses calculated? Where does this number come from? How is it made of? Each unit you loose is 1 point or how does it work?

If memory serves, the penalty is the difference between the total of all AP strength of all units on the map and the total of all AP strength of all initial assigned equipment for all units which have entered the scenario (as a percentage), multiplied by the total number of objectives on the map and your loss intolerance rating. So mathematically:

(Initial strength - current strength) / initial strength * objectives * loss intolerance = penalty

Because AP strength is used, losing a howitzer will have a bigger effect than losing a rifle squad. In this case, assuming loss intolerance is 100% (the default) a loss penalty of 31 suggests you've lost 31 / 110 = 28% of your force's starting strength. Your opponent's losses have been entirely made good by replacements so they get a penalty of zero.

quote:

2�-How does that number affect the victory level? Is a 70-31 arithmetic operation or what?

3�-How can my level of victory be -1 of 110? How is this number calculated?

Victory level = friendly objectives minus enemy objectives plus enemy loss penalty minus friendly loss penalty plus "victory award".

So in your case 70 - 40 + 0 - 31 + 0 = -1.

As you can see from the overall "draw" result, a -1 is actually not too bad. In this scenario your lowest possible score would probably be - 220 if your opponent wiped out your whole force and occupied the whole map, while not losing any of their own strength.

quote:

4�-In the manual it says something about Victory Point awards. How are does acquired?

Specific events programmed by the designer can give VPs to one side or the other.

quote:

5�-What does net victory award mean, where does it come form and how is it calculated? I guess that is the summation of all victory points that I have mentioned above.

Yes it's the total of everything as per your point 4 minus anything your opponent was given. So if you got an event for +40 VPs and they go an event for +20 your net would be +20.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 11/7/2021 11:30:44 AM >

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Post #: 2

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 12:38:37 PM

voroshilov17

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Thanks a lot for the responses!
Now I have some more

quote:

If memory serves, the penalty is the difference between the total of all AP strength of all units on the map and the total of all AP strength of all initial assigned equipment for all units which have entered the scenario (as a percentage), multiplied by the total number of objectives on the map and your loss intolerance rating. So mathematically:

(Initial strength - current strength) / initial strength * objectives * loss intolerance = penalty

Because AP strength is used, losing a howitzer will have a bigger effect than losing a rifle squad. In this case, assuming loss intolerance is 100% (the default) a loss penalty of 31 suggests you've lost 31 / 110 = 28% of your force's starting strength. Your opponent's losses have been entirely made good by replacements so they get a penalty of zero.

1�-And what if I would have reinforcements during the scenario? I guess the calculations would be as you said but instead of initial strength, TOTAL strength (initial strength+reinforcements strength). Am I right?

2�-So the replacements of the enemy, prevents him of havieng penaltis losses I guess, right?

quote:

Specific events programmed by the designer can give VPs to one side or the other.

3�-Those can be checked by the player before playing the scenario? Or is it a "surprise"? I mean, the only way of knowing if a scenario event gives VP, and its amount, is only when it occurs? Or you can know it previously?

Thanks a lot again! I am a noob player, this is my first scenario played entirely.

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Post #: 3

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 1:46:30 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

1�-And what if I would have reinforcements during the scenario? I guess the calculations would be as you said but instead of initial strength, TOTAL strength (initial strength+reinforcements strength). Am I right?

Correct. Reinforcements are actually counted as part of the initial strength.

quote:

2�-So the replacements of the enemy, prevents him of havieng penaltis losses I guess, right?

They reduce the penalty. So...lose 1 squad, the penalty is increased incrementally. Get 1 squad as a replacement, the penalty is decreased the same increment.

quote:

3�-Those can be checked by the player before playing the scenario? Or is it a "surprise"? I mean, the only way of knowing if a scenario event gives VP, and its amount, is only when it occurs? Or you can know it previously?

The scenario designer should put notices about victory awards in the scenario briefing. But, if he doesn't, the only way to know is to put the scenario in the Editor and scan the event list.

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Post #: 4

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 5:26:07 PM

voroshilov17

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Thank you!. And regarding o replacements, I have checked the manual and I have had a pair of doubts
"On hand" indicates how many number of equipment is ready to replace
"Assigned" is what amount of that specific equipment does your force have now assigned
"Lost" is how many of that equipment you have lost

But what does exactly "Rate" and "Turns" indicate?

Again, thanks a lot for the help!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 5:37:24 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

But what does exactly "Rate" and "Turns" indicate?

"Rate" is how many per turn are received. So, 40 Panzer IIIH per turn, as shown.

"Turns" are the turns over which that rate is received. There can be a start turn and an end turn. "1+" means from the start to the end.

Edit: By the way, if you select "Embed picture in post" your attachment will show itself and no one will have to download it.

< Message edited by Curtis Lemay -- 11/7/2021 5:49:28 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 6:35:59 PM

voroshilov17

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/7/2021
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quote:

By the way, if you select "Embed picture in post" your attachment will show itself and no one will have to download it.

Yeah, I clicked on it but it didn`t work apparently. Sorry! I will try best next time, thank you for the note! I am a noob here.

quote:

"Rate" is how many per turn are received. So, 40 Panzer IIIH per turn, as shown.

"Turns" are the turns over which that rate is received. There can be a start turn and an end turn. "1+" means from the start to the end.

Hmm so as I can see in the image, I have "on hand" 16 Panzer IIIG...however the rate is 0 and thus, they are not going to be assigned in any turn, right?. Same happens with the Panzerjagger I. So, what is the usefulness of all this? If I cannot assign those equipments to the units in the field, why do they even appear here?

Something similar happens with Panzer IVE for example. I have 0 "on hand" but the rate is 14. What is the meaning of that? If I do not have any equipment of this kind, why would this equipment be delivered to the troops at a rate of 14? It does not have any sense right?

Thanks again! Sorry, but I am a rookie in TOAW.

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Post #: 7

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 7:09:03 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

Hmm so as I can see in the image, I have "on hand" 16 Panzer IIIG...however the rate is 0 and thus, they are not going to be assigned in any turn, right?.

Wrong. You have 16 in the On Hand pool and they are available to be assigned to units by the replacement system. This is done automatically by the game in the inter-turn interval (NOT by the player during the game turn!). The rate is 0 means you won't be getting any more new ones built by the replacement system (though a fraction of losses and most stragglers end up in the On Hand pool.

quote:

Same happens with the Panzerjagger I. So, what is the usefulness of all this? If I cannot assign those equipments to the units in the field, why do they even appear here?

Again, assignment from the pools to the units is done automatically by the replacement system during the inter-turn phase. Not by the player in the game turn. Some may build up in the On Hand pool if the demand for them from the units isn't that great.

quote:

Something similar happens with Panzer IVE for example. I have 0 "on hand" but the rate is 14. What is the meaning of that? If I do not have any equipment of this kind, why would this equipment be delivered to the troops at a rate of 14? It does not have any sense right?

There are none in the pool at this time, but the replacement system will create 14 new ones each turn. They will go into the On Hand pool for assignment by the replacement system.

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Post #: 8

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 7:29:25 PM

voroshilov17

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Oh! Okay, I misunderstanded.

So "Rate" is the rate that the specific equipment is, let's say, 'produced' and assigned to the "on hand" pool, right?

For example, now I have 0 PanzerIVE in my "on hand" pool, but this number will be increasing by 14 onwards the first turn, right?
And every turn I loose any of the 45 assigned PanzerIVE within my battlefield troops, those will be replaced by the "on hand" PanzerIVE

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Post #: 9

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 7:41:00 PM

Curtis Lemay

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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: voroshilov17

Oh! Okay, I misunderstanded.

So "Rate" is the rate that the specific equipment is, let's say, 'produced' and assigned to the "on hand" pool, right?

For example, now I have 0 PanzerIVE in my "on hand" pool, but this number will be increasing by 14 onwards the first turn, right?

Yes.

quote:

And every turn I loose any of the 45 assigned PanzerIVE within my battlefield troops, those will be replaced by the "on hand" PanzerIVE

Basically, yes. Though the actual replacement procedure that the game uses can be somewhat arcane. Just being one short may not generate enough demand to guarantee assignment of one from the pool.

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Post #: 10

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/7/2021 8:11:23 PM

voroshilov17

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Thank you a lot! I have learned a lot from this thread. This can be useful too to other noob gamers and to the wiki that other members of the forum want to make.

I have a conclussion from all this. Basically, if your force doesn't have many replacements or many equipment on reserve pool (for example the German player in the Arracourt 44 scenario)...do not be so aggressive and do not attack a lot, it will debilitate your forces and you will have a lot of penalty of losses.

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Post #: 11

RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 11/16/2021 4:46:00 AM

r6kunz

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C'est la guerre

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RE: Doubt about victory in a scenario - 12/10/2021 5:27:39 AM

Jeremy Mac Donald

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Worth pointing out that in almost all scenarios the replacement rate for both sides is really inadequate. There may be some specific reason a scenario designer decides to up the replacement rate of one or both sides but the suggested default for replacements in 1% to 2% of total forces.

I would not be shocked if the Allies in Arras 44 are an exception but I do want to point out that a rule of don't attack unless you have adequate replacements will soon flounder on the fact that you almost never have adequate replacements in any scenario.

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Post #: 13