Sensor Time-delay

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Mods and Scenarios >> Lua Legion >> Sensor Time-delay

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Sensor Time-delay - 11/7/2021 11:32:24 PM

trupright

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Joined: 10/6/2021
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One of the things I love about CMO is the vast array of items one can use in constructing scenarios.

One of the things I hate about CMO is that sensor responses are instantaneous. If I have a radar on a hill, the entire side will know any detections instantly. If a satellite detects a ship, everyone knows instantly. This is useful in playing out a scenario, but in the real world there are time delays between a detection and actions taken in response to them.

I'm putting this topic here because I feel like there may be something in the Lua interface which could handle this: How can I impose a certain time delay between detection of a unit and action in response to that detection. I feel like I'm missing something obvious here.

Example:
A satellite detects a ship nearby but can't make an identification. In response, perhaps I'd like to task an aircraft to get a closer look for positive identification. Currently, that happens essentially instantaneously. In real life it may take considerable time for that signal to be delivered and processed to make a detection. That then has to be communicated to the area where it is useful.

How can a build in a time delay for certain types of units?

Post #: 1

RE: Sensor Time-delay - 11/8/2021 1:19:15 AM

Kushan04

Posts: 683
Joined: 6/29/2005
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Can think of one of two ways.

1) Set units you want to delay reporting to no-comm, then turn them in-comms, then back out at whatever interval you want.

2) You could also do something similar with sides. Put the sensors onto their own side that's not allied, set them allied (friendly), then turn them back to neutral.

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(in reply to trupright)

Post #: 2

RE: Sensor Time-delay - 11/8/2021 3:03:50 AM

Fido81

Posts: 129
Joined: 7/14/2019
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kushan04

Can think of one of two ways.

1) Set units you want to delay reporting to no-comm, then turn them in-comms, then back out at whatever interval you want.

2) You could also do something similar with sides. Put the sensors onto their own side that's not allied, set them allied (friendly), then turn them back to neutral.

I preferred the first approach Kushan describes when I put together "CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021" (now in the Community Scenario Pack

) because it

1) more easily handles data transfers on a unit-by-unit basis.

2) allows no-code Triggers to call Events to pass along data based on both regular time intervals (which I used for submarines) and distance (which I used for satellite passes over ground stations). It's also possible to set up no-code Triggers based on a variety of other conditions.

3) probably won't be as quick to impact computer performance while running the scenario - there's probably a reason most scenario creators put biologic and civilian contacts on blind sides.

4) is the subject of one of P Gatcomb's excellent tutorials (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk1tHLN2SYc).

A potential (I haven't tried it yet) third approach to the problem is that the UpdateUnit function contains an argument named commsid, which may produce the desired effect if communications disruption is enabled in the scenario and all of a unit's communications devices are removed.

(in reply to Kushan04)

Post #: 3

RE: Sensor Time-delay - 11/8/2021 8:19:49 AM

KnightHawk75

Posts: 1450
Joined: 11/15/2018
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I'm putting this topic here because I feel like there may be something in the Lua interface which could handle this: How can I impose a certain time delay between detection of a unit and action in response to that detection. I feel like I'm missing something obvious here.
---
You aren't missing anything obvious. There are some limited ways, sometimes worth the effort, sometimes not, most mentioned already. In the purest sense there is nothing you can do to truly 'increase' the delay from actual detection to the rest of your side knowing about it in a very controlled way. There is only tricks in putting off or ignoring said detection in the first place (removing sensors, using out-of-comms), playing other tricks with certain units on their own sides and that sides status (info sharing at any given moment), or limiting how other units can\can't react to said detection(s) (such as scripting sensors,comms,weapons,fuel removal\addition) to add restrictions or impediments. It all comes down to nitty specifics of the scene trying to be accomplished and if the available workarounds will actually simulate a 'delay factor' to your liking for the specifics scene - without at the same time screwing up or otherwise over-complicating other things if it's a larger scenario.

quote:

A satellite detects a ship nearby but can't make an identification. In response, perhaps I'd like to task an aircraft to get a closer look for positive identification.
Currently, that happens essentially instantaneously.

The aircraft doesn't necessarily act instantaneously if said missions with said aircraft may be setup for don't allow it at that moment in time either do to settings, it being enabled at all, or range or other restrictions. For instances if there are aircraft a couple hundred miles away and the ship is outside their mission PZ or PRZ and that mission is set to NOT allow them to check-out unknown contacts outside said zone it will be ignored. Yet maybe later (some time after the detection) another event enables (changes the mission setting) the setting to then allow it and off they'll go investigating.

quote:

A potential (I haven't tried it yet) third approach to the problem is that the UpdateUnit function contains an argument named commsid, which may produce the desired effect if communications disruption is enabled in the scenario and all of a unit's communications devices are removed.

And realistic comms is enabled (which can introduce other challenges). Though even then it would be more of other units not being able to target\engage something and less 'the side' actually not knowing about the contact yet (though it may be old location data).

/2cents

< Message edited by KnightHawk75 -- 11/8/2021 8:20:04 AM >

(in reply to Fido81)

Post #: 4

RE: Sensor Time-delay - 11/10/2021 7:17:18 PM

trupright

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/6/2021
Status: offline

Thank you all for your feedback... I have many ideas running through my head.

I do have a question, if you turn off comms and then turn them on again - but your detection unit is mobile (think Airborne, Ship-born, or Satellite), you may be missing a bunch of detections missed previously, right? If so, that method probably wouldn't work for me. In this case, I'm not dealing with a radar on a hill.

Second, if you create a detection "side" and want to run the time delay based on a specific moment - a particular unit is identified or a certain type of weaponry is discovered - I'm trying to piece together the method I could use...

So 1 - 'Detection' side set
2 - unit/weapon type detected by 'Detection' side
3 - THEN start a counter for x number of minutes (airborne may be shorter, satellites may be much longer - would like some randomization)
4 - Once that countdown ends, the 'Detection' side is set to the detector-Side in the conflict
5 - Action can be set to happen once the detections are known.

I'm relatively new to the game (and Lua). I've managed to create some interesting things, but this time-delay item is eating at me a bit. I see the ideas and they are good - I'm just trying to figure out the best way to execute it.

As a note, the scenario is fairly small and targeted. It's not a massive, huge-scale affair. Probably a 6-hour scenario or less.

Thank you again!

(in reply to KnightHawk75)

Post #: 5

RE: Sensor Time-delay - 11/11/2021 4:00:59 AM

Fido81

Posts: 129
Joined: 7/14/2019
Status: offline

I think that instead of a "Unit is Detected" trigger and timer, your needs may be better met with a "Unit Remains in Area" trigger, with the time the unit remains in the area equal to the time delay you want to implement.

(in reply to trupright)

Post #: 6

RE: Sensor Time-delay - 11/11/2021 4:15:19 PM

KnightHawk75

Posts: 1450
Joined: 11/15/2018
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if you turn off comms and then turn them on again - but your detection unit is mobile (think Airborne, Ship-born, or Satellite), you may be missing a bunch of detections missed previously, right?
---
I believe they report what they know after no-comms condition is removed, so said detection will get reported to their side during the reconnecting of comms. If you asking if say a no-comms sat passes over an area, and say there is unit detection trigger, does the trigger get fired during pass while out-of-comms or does it get fired when comms are restored? That's a good question, don't think I've tried testing that in the last year so, I would presume probably not till it's reported to the side but I'd test it to make sure.

Fido may be correct, you might be better off with unit in area depending on your specifics.
btw re: #3 and counters, another way is just to have #2 create another ETA(event\trigger\action) programmatically that fires X amount of time in the future that does #4 in it's action, though the 'counter method' can work as well and might be less work if newer to Lua with cmo. I mention it more just so you know it 'can be done' and less 'you should do it this way'.

(in reply to Fido81)

Post #: 7